What is a fitters job? Update

Jan 17, 19 8:05

Post #1 of 28 (2079 views)

A friend of mine wants a tri bike and is excited about getting a tri specific set up. He rides alone a couple times a week on a turn- of-the-century Cannondale road bike and has done a few sprints. He wants to move to Olympic distance.
He is not familar with bikes or bike fitting, so asked me for some guidance. We live in different cities, so knowing the Slowtwitch "rules", I suggested he see a FIST certified fitter located in his area to get fit coordinates prior to deciding on a bike. The fellow I suggested seems experienced, and was recommended to him by a bike shop as well.
He met with the guy, told him he wanted a aero position fit, but when I talked to him afterwards, he was disappointed. When he looked up the bikes that were suggested, they were all standard road bikes. I had him send me the zinn sheet, and he was given a road bike fit. He did not touch or see a pair of aerobars during his session.
He emailed the fitter, asking if there were suggestions for a tri bike, which of course there is not. This is part of the fitters response:
"These number will not work for a Tri Bike, that is a completely different session that will take another 1.5 hours. I really believe that you will be super happy with what we discovered. At this time for you I think it is the best decision to go with a road bike that can double as a Tri bike with some clip on bars."
He isn't hapoy. He wants a tri bike.

So the question is, what is the fitters responsibility? I feel that he should have given his client what he was looking for, not decided what he felt his client should have. If he didn't think he could get him happy in aero, then tell him, but start with that objective.
Also, if the fitter doesn't think he will be comfortable in an aero position, how is he going to be comfortable in clip-ons in a road bike position.?
Am I off base?

Last edited by: sonofdad: Jan 17, 19 15:18

Re: What is a fitters job? [sonofdad] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 8:09

Post #2 of 28 (2057 views)

The fitter done screwed up.

He should offer a re-do at no additional charge.

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Re: What is a fitters job? [sonofdad] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 8:17

Post #3 of 28 (2036 views)

He met with the guy, told him he wanted a aero position fit....

Did he make clear he wanted a tri bike fit as opposed to an aero road set up? This fitter should have asked for sure. I would say your friend bears some responsibility for maybe not making clear what he wanted but if he was unsophisticated I can understand his confusion and the fitter should have clarified up front. The advice to just throw on some clip bars as the “best” decision now seems to be a red flag to me.

Re: What is a fitters job? [sonofdad] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 8:19

Post #4 of 28 (2024 views)

reasonable bike fit expectations

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: What is a fitters job? [sonofdad] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 8:23

Post #5 of 28 (2017 views)

There was probably an underlying communication fail at the root of this in:

What your friend wanted
What your friend asked for
What the fitter heard
What the fitter did

Without having heard what transpired between #2 and #3, it is tough to lay blame. That said, IMHO, a good services industry person would have acknowledge the miss after the fact and offered to somehow make it right with another fit for free or at a big discount (depending on how the fitter perceives what went on in #3 and #4).

Re: What is a fitters job? [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 8:23

Post #6 of 28 (2017 views)

DFW_Tri wrote:

He met with the guy, told him he wanted a aero position fit....

Did he make clear he wanted a tri bike fit as opposed to an aero road set up? This fitter should have asked for sure. I would say your friend bears some responsibility for maybe not making clear what he wanted but if he was unsophisticated I can understand his confusion and the fitter should have clarified up front. The advice to just throw on some clip bars as the “best” decision now seems to be a red flag to me.

It's the fitter's job, IMO, to guide people through the process, which includes clarifying exactly what they want.

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Re: What is a fitters job? [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 8:31

Post #7 of 28 (1997 views)

It's a difficult situation, but I'd say it's still the fitter's fault. Especially if someone asks for an "aero position fit". What is an aero position fit on a road bike without clip-ons? I don't even know.

It's the fitters job to ask what the fit is for, and what additional questions should be asked. It's not the customer's job to know the questions that a fitter should be asking, and be providing these answers up front.

A fit is not just a fit. Are you getting a fit because you feel pain? numbness? Why are you trying to be more aero (road racing, trying out tri on a road bike, wanting to race tri. This is a bad fitter... I guess we should just accept that purchasing fit service is like buying a used car, "buyer beware".

Last edited by: bloodyshogun: Jan 17, 19 8:34

Re: What is a fitters job? [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 8:31

Post #8 of 28 (1996 views)

Imo when an newer person doesn't "know" what they want, it's on the fitter to guide them or get info out of them so the fitter knows exactly what they want. Ask them background questions, ask them race goals, asking them races for the upcoming season is going to clue you in on how the fit will go. I think the fitter failed to do the background due diligence in the first 3-4 mins of the opening conversation between athlete and fitter for the fitter to clue in on exactly what they want.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Re: What is a fitters job? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 8:32

Post #9 of 28 (1993 views)

Agreed.

Re: What is a fitters job? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 8:38

Post #10 of 28 (1979 views)

Funny you should post that, Dan. I sent him that article and he took it with him.

"I keep hoping for you to use your superior intellect to be less insufferable. Sadly, you continue to disappoint." - gofigure

Re: What is a fitters job? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 8:44

Post #11 of 28 (1957 views)

B_Doughtie wrote:

Imo when an newer person doesn't "know" what they want, it's on the fitter to guide them or get info out of them so the fitter knows exactly what they want. Ask them background questions, ask them race goals, asking them races for the upcoming season is going to clue you in on how the fit will go. I think the fitter failed to do the background due diligence in the first 3-4 mins of the opening conversation between athlete and fitter for the fitter to clue in on exactly what they want.

I totally agree. A great fitter would ask enough questions to figure out a miss before it happened. But most people are poor to average communicators, and misses like this (or any other subject area) are frequent in life. Ultimately, there was probably a communication gap that sent this down a wrong path. Without knowing the exact words that were exchanged in those initial minutes and throughout the process, we are all just guessing. Still, IMHO, the fitter should have owned it better after the fact, if he truly continued to push the road bike happy path.

Re: What is a fitters job? [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 8:49

Post #12 of 28 (1946 views)

But most people are poor to average communicators, and misses like this (or any other subject area) are frequent in life. Ultimately, there was probably a communication gap that sent this down a wrong path.

-----

And ultimately the fitter *should* do the right thing and give the athlete another fit. I'd take the fault and my bosses would pin it on me (I'm more of an emergency fitter for my LBS and yes Fist certified fitter), if even half the details were true. I'd have been on blast for not cueing in on the details the customer was wanting.

IE- customer wants an aero fit. Immediately I ask what it's for and what type of riding/racing are you going to be doing and what have you been doing in the past (going from a non aero to aero can be big change on the body so I'd want to know their experience/comfort/race goals)? Customer answers "triathlon".....changes the entire fit and info is known within 3 mins of meeting the athlete.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Jan 17, 19 8:54

Re: What is a fitters job? [bloodyshogun] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 8:55

Post #13 of 28 (1933 views)

bloodyshogun wrote:

It's a difficult situation, but I'd say it's still the fitter's fault. Especially if someone asks for an "aero position fit". What is an aero position fit on a road bike without clip-ons? I don't even know.

I don't think its difficult at all....When I scheduled my first fit session, the first question the fitter asked me was, "What type of bike are you wanting to get fit for?" That was asked in email before I ever even scheduled the fit session---when I first enquired about getting started.

If the fitter forgot to ask that MOST BASIC question, then its all on him. He assumed the guy wanted a Road bike fit, and never asked.

That said, it seems to me the fitter should have already recognized his screw-up, and offered a free redo. Since this is a service RELATIONSHIP, I don't know how viable it will be going forward if you have to ARGUE your way into a freebie.

I think that's somewhat of a tough call. But, I'd probably call the guy and have a frank conversation with him, and see how that goes. If that doesn't go well, and he gets belligerent or defensive...I'd just walk away, figuring its never going to get better.

Re: What is a fitters job? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 8:57

Post #14 of 28 (1927 views)

B_Doughtie wrote:

And ultimately the fitter *should* do the right thing and give the athlete another fit.

Yeah, the other half of this story is that I would never go back to that fitter, if I were the friend. The guy did not own the miss, and his resolution was another full session, presumably for another charge. If he did not pick up the miss during the first session, he is not deserving of any more business. And, it is not worth the blood pressure needed to beat him up over it. If I were the friend, I would relay the story back to the LBS and then as the LBS if they have any more local recommendations.

Re: What is a fitters job? [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 9:04

Post #15 of 28 (1915 views)

Oh I should have added, I wasnt suggesting the fitter charge for 2nd fit. It's on the fitter to acknowledge the error and want to fix it. If the athlete doesn't want to get the re-fit I understand but the fitter should atleast attempt to remedy the situation. Even if the athlete is turned off, they atleast owned up and tried to fix the issue.

But if the fitter was saying "you said aero fit and I gave you an aero fit", yeah that's not going to go well in the local community for him or the LBS who's promoting him.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Re: What is a fitters job? [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 11:12

Post #16 of 28 (1809 views)

Thank you all for the input. Appreciated.

To clear up some questions asked above - the exact words used when my friend emailed the fitter for the appointment were, "I am looking to buy a tri bike and would like to do a fitting to determine what specs work best for me."
When the fitter responded by email to set up the appointment, he said that a road or aero road frame might be a better option - prior to having met one another.
When they met, my friend says he again stated that he wanted to "buy a tri bike for racing triathlons". Seems like he was pretty clear.
I feel responsible for this situation as he was following my recommendations.

"I keep hoping for you to use your superior intellect to be less insufferable. Sadly, you continue to disappoint." - gofigure

Re: What is a fitters job? [sonofdad] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 11:22

Post #17 of 28 (1792 views)

To the extent I had any doubt before (and I had very little), based on these communications, the fitter is 100% at fault . Not you, not your friend.

Re: What is a fitters job? [sonofdad] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 11:33

Post #18 of 28 (1771 views)

sonofdad wrote:

"I am looking to buy a tri bike and would like to do a fitting to determine what specs work best for me." ...
"buy a tri bike for racing triathlons"

If that was the exchange, then the fitter sucks butt. He overrode the wishes of his client and may not have even let on what he was doing. Makes me think that the fitter was only a road bike fitter to have missed that blatantly-- to a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Re: What is a fitters job? [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 11:37

Post #19 of 28 (1763 views)

I hope the fitter is not listed on SlowTwitch as a recommended person to go to!

Re: What is a fitters job? [rossi46] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 11:55

Post #20 of 28 (1740 views)

F.I.S.T. certified, but not in the database.

"I keep hoping for you to use your superior intellect to be less insufferable. Sadly, you continue to disappoint." - gofigure

Re: What is a fitters job? [sonofdad] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 12:23

Post #21 of 28 (1691 views)

Who is it? I feel like with screw ups this big, fitters should be outed so they either get a (second) opportunity to correct the situation/defend themselves, or be blacklisted.

Re: What is a fitters job? [sonofdad] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 12:26

Post #22 of 28 (1684 views)

sonofdad wrote:

Thank you all for the input. Appreciated.

To clear up some questions asked above - the exact words used when my friend emailed the fitter for the appointment were, "I am looking to buy a tri bike and would like to do a fitting to determine what specs work best for me."
When the fitter responded by email to set up the appointment, he said that a road or aero road frame might be a better option - prior to having met one another.
When they met, my friend says he again stated that he wanted to "buy a tri bike for racing triathlons". Seems like he was pretty clear.
I feel responsible for this situation as he was following my recommendations.

Wow. Just. Wow.

Run away. He should call his credit card company and see about having the charges reversed.

Re: What is a fitters job? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 12:34

Post #23 of 28 (1672 views)

I would suggest asking for a time trial fitting or a refund before doing a chargeback.

Re: What is a fitters job? [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 13:55

Post #24 of 28 (1610 views)

jimatbeyond wrote:

I would suggest asking for a time trial fitting or a refund before doing a chargeback.

I felt that way initially. That was my rationale for my original post above. But, given the full context:

customer: "I want a tri-bike fit."
Fitter: "How about an aero road bike fit."
customer: "No, I want a tri-bike fit."
Fitter: "Here's your fit."
Customer: "This doesn't seem like a tri-bike fit. Which tri-bikes would you recommend?"
Fitter: "Its not a tri-bike fit. You'll have to pay for another fit session."

...I wouldn't trust the guy to give me a good fit. So, I don't see the value in continuing to pursue it. Ask for your money back, and move on to someone else...or just call the credit card company and stop payment.

If it were me, I'd call the credit card company and see if the chargeback is an option under the terms and conditions of the account. Then KNOWING my leverage, I'd call the fitter and ASK for my money back....then follow through with the chargeback, if the guy said "no".

However, I'd have no interest in a fit from this guy in any case. Why waste more time?

Re: What is a fitters job? [sonofdad] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 19 15:17

Post #25 of 28 (1544 views)

Update.
After seeing the responses to this thread, my friend talked to the fitter. After some back and forth about what was provided, and why it was provided, and before things got too heated, the fitter offered to have him back for a tri fitting at no additional cost. My friend says he takes some responsibility for letting things go off track (personally I think he is being generous) and is happy with that result. He said the fitter seems cool with it too.
Score one for direct communication.

"I keep hoping for you to use your superior intellect to be less insufferable. Sadly, you continue to disappoint." - gofigure

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