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What happen with "V" shape rim
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Full disclosure, i own a pair of Reynolds Aero 72.

Every time i look for reviews to know if i could any improvement on my wheels selection... someone will say that they are super stable cross-winds... but no body except Reynolds is using that shape anymore...

So, if it's that bad, why Reynolds is sticking with it ??
if it's that good, why more people using it ??

Marketing? Patents? Bias by aero test?
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Re: What happen with "V" shape rim [benleg] [ In reply to ]
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Companies need to be seem to be doing 'new stuff' in order to get flogging products to consumers.

I find it peculiar how little actual aero data there is from companies who sole premise is aero....
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Re: What happen with "V" shape rim [benleg] [ In reply to ]
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benleg wrote:
So, if it's that bad, why Reynolds is sticking with it ??

They aren't "sticking with it". The newer Reynolds rim have a different shape than any other current rims or anything made in the past. They are unique.

They win every wind tunnel test I've seen at low yaw. And I've heard nothing but positive reviews regarding their stability in cross winds. If you were hoping to "upgrade" to something better, I think you are out of luck.
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Re: What happen with "V" shape rim [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
benleg wrote:
So, if it's that bad, why Reynolds is sticking with it ??


They aren't "sticking with it". The newer Reynolds rim have a different shape than any other current rims or anything made in the past. They are unique.

They win every wind tunnel test I've seen at low yaw. And I've heard nothing but positive reviews regarding their stability in cross winds. If you were hoping to "upgrade" to something better, I think you are out of luck.


Is that for 2020? 2019 rim profiles are the same: https://reynoldscycling.com/.../products/aero-65-db
I have the Reynolds Aero 46's and think they are great......going to get a set of the 65's as well (once I find them on sale somewhere).
Last edited by: MKirk: Mar 12, 19 10:22
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Re: What happen with "V" shape rim [benleg] [ In reply to ]
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I forgot where I read it, but I believe the Reynolds shape (not a simple V) is a low-drag/low-lift design while most are high-drag/high-lift. So both can be fast but for different reasons.
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Re: What happen with "V" shape rim [benleg] [ In reply to ]
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The fun thing about wheels is that there are likely dozens of pretty optimal solutions. When I was at Zipp still we were using an automated CFD approach developed by Matt Godo at Intelligent Light (now at STAR) to take an approach more akin to simulated annealing.. the idea being that there are likely multiple pretty highly optimized shapes that weren't really connected to each other very closely. Simulated annealing is nicely explained HERE and visually described nicely by this gif and works to try and find various disconnected regions of possible solution.




The Reynolds wheels are interesting in that they have much further forward center of pressure than anything out there that I've seen, but that helps them offset the natural instability of that very sharp edge behaving as a leading edge, so the wheels require generally higher steering torque but have less torque variability with wind angle variability.

The ENVE solution is to have moderately linear torque with yaw angle, balancing the torque magnitude with torque variability and ensuring torque is always positive

The original solution here was the Firecest solution that I worked on, it was the first real handling model for a front wheel and the idea was that torque variability was fine as long as the magnitude of the overall torque was very low and all yaw angles had positive torque values..

Firecrest really changed the game as prior to that many shapes suffered from torque values that would oscillate between positive and negative depending on wind angle so a 3-5 degree change in effective yaw angle could change the torque on the wheel from positive to negative... so something like a passing car could cause dramatic swings in wheel torque that saw the rider having to reverse their reaction torque from one direction to the other very quickly.

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Re: What happen with "V" shape rim [joshatsilca] [ In reply to ]
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Always fascinating stuff Josh.

Someone in the aerospace industry (European of course, probably not a good week to talk to Boeing) should investigate this and test a bunch of wheels and then start being rude to everyone in the industry. Wait what?

Bontrager Aeolus xxx is also pretty "V" shaped at the inner edge, though more of an airfoil shape overall than a straight vee. And of course they claim it's the fastest...
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Re: What happen with "V" shape rim [MKirk] [ In reply to ]
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MKirk wrote:
Is that for 2020? 2019 rim profiles are the same: https://reynoldscycling.com/.../products/aero-65-db
I have the Reynolds Aero 46's and think they are great......going to get a set of the 65's as well (once I find them on sale somewhere).

They've had this general shape for awhile, but they are not like anyone's V rim back in the day. The curvature actually reverses near the tip.


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Re: What happen with "V" shape rim [joshatsilca] [ In reply to ]
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That is interesting!!!

If i paraphrase:
- Reynolds: 5 or 15 degree will feel somewhat similar.... speed of the wind will define how much you need to lean in, not so much the angle
- Enve: 5 or 15 will feel differently... but will be predictable, even if it's gusty (?!?)

- Old zipp were unpredictable
- New zip are a lot better
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