New to rowing/erging: don't bother with the straps on your feet. Keep them very loose, or don't bother with them at all. This will help teach proper technique.

There's 10+ pages of tips here, including links to video examples, right Dev? ;-)

---

no sponsors | no races | nothing to see here

Sorry for no video yet. At this point I don't have an excuse as I can just video in my basement, but I fear the ST mobs ripping apart the mancave equipment assets LOL. In terms of no strap rowing, I am finding it is hard for me to get under 2 min per 500m pace. Low 2:0x is doable, but not low 1:5x or high 1:4x....its impossible for me to row at that intensity with no straps. Is it possible to completely close the gap which I think is likely not the case.

“Feet out” is a drill. It does not allow for the efficiencies of the full range of motion of the rowing stroke.

So, don’t expect to pull “normal” splits with the straps loose.

---

no sponsors | no races | nothing to see here

My daughter is going into her junior year of high school. Started rowing the beginning of sophmore year and has really gotten into it.
Said she needs to decide between sweeps and sculling this fall as to which way she wants to go. I think in her 4 and 8 person sculling boat she is usually the stroke.

Her 2k erg is 8:05 right now but she's been rowing all summer and hasn't done a 2k test since the beginning of the summer. She's going to the Brown U. rowing camp next week so I'm sure they will test her there.

I know nothing about rowing. As far as colleges go, is there a preference to sculling vs sweeping or vice versa? Also, what 2k times should be trying to work for to be able to row in college. I'm sure the standard for a D1 school is different than a D3 school. Just looking for some direction, thanks.

You'll get some good advice (hopefully) at the Concept 2 forums. A lot of very knowledgeable rowers over there.

I’m a little far removed from this scene so hopefully others will weigh in who are still involved but I’ll take an initial stab at this...at larger schools, sweep rowing will be more competitive/prestigious and sculling or small boat work was only used as a training tool. Smaller schools may develop smaller boats or sculling if the talent pool is such that it makes sense to do so.

I believe the 7:00 benchmark for female (non lightweight) rowers is the approximate equivalent to the 6:00 mark for heavyweight men—meaning hitting that mark would put you in fairly elite company on a national level. And while 8 is a long way to 7, she is presumably still learning, getting better, only a junior and that 7:00 certainly isn’t what is needs to be competitive in college. My guess is that if she is still fairly early in her development (ie has plenty of room to improve) that 8:00 is a pretty good place to be for now. My ergs times improved tremendously from HS to college (at 2k distance probably approx : 40 improvement) as it becomes a bigger focus and is used a lot more. I also asked my friend who coaches girls HS rowing for a very competitive program and will edit my post with a better idea how 8 stacks up.

Edit—Here’s what he said...

Sub 7:40 gets you in the high school 1v, sub 7:25 gets college interest, sub 7:15 gets you recruited

Thanks for the information. I told her to ask the rowing coaches next week when she is at the Brown University camp.

I think she said there are two girls from Princeton rowing at her club this summer and they are down in the low 7's for a 2k. All the girls at the club are in awe of them.

Here is the simple physiology answer attemp from an outside. 1:45 pace (7 min) is 300W give or take. Watts are watts. Now we have weight, but weight is irrelevant, but if you get a 75 kilo woman producing 300W she's a 4W per kilo athlete in the shell....if you get a 60 kilo athlete, she's a 5W per kilo athlete. For lightweight women's boat 125 lbs average = 57 kilos. So the lightweight woman would have to be north of a 5W per kilo athlete and she's set if the cutoff for lightweight is 7 min. But I think you said non lightweight women, so in that case you want the biggest women who can give you 300W each...the bigger the better I guess?

My only potential utility in this sport I suppose at 138 lbs is to bring down the average in a lightweight boat so you can put some NFL linebackers in there! Next year I will try to get on water. This year, I just can't make the time and I want to get my 200 fly and 400IM times down from the pathetic times they are now. The good news is the cardio engine for 200 fly and 400 IM are all in the rough zone as 2K rowing.

4 min K equivalent for swimming using the 4:1 ratio would be around 4 min for 250m. Since no one swims 250m, I would say the equivalent that most would setting for is the 100m pace is 1:30. This generally seems to be a dividing line with most people who are adult onset swimmers. For real swimmers it would be leaving on 1:30, maybe coming in at 1:12-1:17 range.

Broadly the answer about sweep being more prestigious at large 'places' (I don't want to confuse with UK/US name differences) and sculling at smaller is correct.

However, a few points to throw into the mix.

- It is easier to make a good sculler row sweep well than the other way round
- Outstanding scullers are often recruited for sweep because of the above
- What is your daughter's goal? Does she want to row sweep in one of the big US varsity competitions (I think that is the correct term) and perhaps even get a scholarship to do so? More informed people will be able to chip in but I think there is a big emphasis on the erg for this.
- How supported is the sweep vs sculling set up where she is now? Which will advance her most? You said she has to decide between sweep and sculling, what are the respective squads like? Better to be in a super fast quad than a mediocre eight for example

Good luck.

This guy just beat the world junior fastest time in a single:

https://werow.co.uk/clarke-dean-usa-sets-worlds-best-time-junior-single-scull-racice/


Seems last year he raced both the coxed 4 and the single at the junior worlds, from Florida.
I presume he will be hunted for recruitment to one of the big varsities on the strength of his sculling alone.

Following on in this thread, I have been watching online sites to get my own Concept2 rower (seems the gold standard). I did miss out on a model B for only $75, but it looks like I could score a C with an older PM for about $300-500 and maybe a D for $650-800.
But, did have the wise idea that I should try it first before spending a bunch of cash on something.
It occurred to me to give it a try at a gym. Now, I have never belonged to a gym, so I would have to do that - or even just a day or week pass.

My main question is how to people track a workout in a gym setting?
I could wear a watch and HRM and at least get HR and time data.
Is there a way that I could use the PM and extract the data from it?

What do others do that row in a gym or collective setting?

Timely resurrection...

I followed this thread with interest and learned a lot, but had no access at the time. I've always liked spending a little time rowing in the past when I had the opportunity. My wife and I joined our local Y this summer and I was pleased to learn that they have 3 Concept2-D rowers. After gravitating to them during my workouts, I bit the bullet and bought one for home.

Back to your question, when I row at the Y I just note the stats from the monitor (these are all PM5, but I suspect that the older models will show distance, spm, split, etc.) and enter them manually in my training log and the online Concept2 log. If the machines at your gym have the PM5, you can connect via bluetooth to an app on your phone and it will capture the details as you go.

Let me also add my thanks to all the contributors on this thread for the great info. I've quite a ways to go, but I can already recognize improvements in my technique (and when it is breaking down) as a result of the knowledge shared here and via some excellent videos I've found down the YouTube rabbit hole.

---

__________________________________________________
Happy trails,
Chris

If you're just trying it out there's no real need to track any data. Maybe just note your average 500m pace and/or distance rowed. Once you get one of your own depending on what monitor it uses you can connect it to your phone and use the ergdata app. I don't use the app and just manually enter data in the C2 log. I have a model C (since the mid 90s) and a PM2+ with no BT so I have to do a manual entry. My skierg has the PM 5 and tracks the workout but it doesn't have a setting just for the skierg. I track my HR in the app that I use with my watch.

The skierg is awesome too. ;-)

Not bad advice; but I do what I can to track every workout.

According to Concept2, some of the local gyms I might try have Skiergs as well - if their list is accurate. Not sure how they update.

I don't understand what you say that the PM5 doesn't have a setting for skierg.

The PM5 on the skierg is set explicitly for the skierg. It's the ergdata app that doesn't have a skierg function, though it will collect all the same data as it does for the rower.

I find I am doing a lot so steady state stuff "feet unstapped". I have found this also puts less stress on my lumbar area. It might be because you can't really bring your knee to a locked position without coming off. You had mention to keep a bend in the knee at the end of the stroke rather than locking and this kind of forces it.

Anyway, yesterday I was just cruising along and came through 1000m in around 4:12. I was rowing by watts and not pace, but I know around 200W is ~2 min/500m pace and kept seeing numbers around 200W so then I decided to push through to see how fast I could cover 2000m with my feet unstrapped. I ended coming through at 8:15, so the second half was better. So far my best 1000m with feet strapped in is 3:42. I have not tried a 2000m with feet strapped in, but I figure that around 7:40-7:45 should be totally doable. But it was kind of fun to see what I could do with feet unstrapped.

I am finding that in general, pushing hard for 1000m or even 1500m is fine. I'm used to doing running intervals up to a mile. 2000m is really really long mentally. It's kind of a weird no man's land for me that I am not used to. I can't think of a single track, cycling, or swimming event of the same duration as 2000m rowing. In the other sports, the events are shorter or way longer. 2000m is weird compared to my other sports!!!!

What you're writing is: rowing is hard. ;-)

At the pointy end of elite level, 2000m on the erg has *approximate* on-the-water rowing time equivalencies for the same gender/weight classes:
open mens 4x 5:40
open womens 4- 6:30
light mens 2x 6:05
light womens 2x 6:55

So, a 70kg male does 2000m in 6:05 on the erg, or when racing a double scull.

---

no sponsors | no races | nothing to see here

If you compare the 5:40 for open men, that is comparing to 3:28 range for the "open men" 1500m run. That extra 60 percent time is a crazy additional amount of world of hurt. You're basically going at 1500m running pace and trying to hold it for 60 percent longer. I think the only comparable duration I can think of in endurance sport is the 5000m speedskate on the long track where they go around 6 minutes.

In any case for me "pushing" if I am doing 1500m on the erg relatively hard, I'm in the mid to low 5:40 range, which is around how long elite men are rowing hard for in the 4x. So it seems for me to endure 1500m at my capacity feels "long enough"

Well, I'm in trouble now!
Just picked up a Model C with a PM3 for only $375. Never did even try one in a gym.
PM turns on but doesn't change from zeroes when rowing. Cable out of the PM looks pretty ratty, website shows that with pickup at $15.85.
Gonna spend some time reading Concept2 manuals and schematics etc.
Next is negotiating for space in the garage with the wife.

I am looking at the women's lightweight because I probably fall into that "size" range. 6:55 to put it in wattage equivalent is just a touch above 300W...given the largest person in the boat can only be 59 kilos, that's a touch over 5W per kilo...that's insanely high!!!!

OK I wanted to report back on this thread for a few reasons:

1. Winter is here and I think the concept2 is awesome
2. I got one for my birthday from a friend whose kids no longer are at home and are away on NCAA rowing scholarships (got mine for $550 CDN....which is like $5 USD these days0
3. For the last 3 months I have been using it 5x per week 10-30 minutes per day
4. I have gotten my technique down where I can row consistently at 2 min per 500m with NO STRAPS on....just feet on the platform. When I add the straps, it seems I can row 30-50W harder when I want to push it!
5. My core is getting stronger for swimming all strokes
6. With all my swimming (100km per month), the rowing is moving my arms and shoulders in a different way seemingly strenghening the shoulder area
7. Its been awesome for rehab since I got run over by a bus in June
8. I wish I never waited for so long to learn how to use this. This would have been a great tool for cross training for the core and glutes when I was doing tris
9. I really enjoy one of the sets where I altenate 10 min of intervals on the computrainer and then 10 min of intervals on the rower, switching between sports and watching the wattage in each sport. Bike seems to be 20-40W higher for the same perceived exertion depending on day.

6:53 is the WR.

in 19 days. let's not rush it. :)

this is good. "feet in" should allow you to throw your core a bit more, so this make sense.

~66% of the rowing stroke cycle is 0w. but you know this.

it's nice to see you taking to the erg.... and (almost) stealing one for yourself!

---

no sponsors | no races | nothing to see here

On the 66% being zero watt, we also get rest vs always working in cycling....I think on another thread Rapp said he can last 3x longer on the same wattage on the bike vs rowing machine. So his FTP power (60 min) is his rowing 20 min power, or his 2K erg was similar to his 20 min bike power. So it seems once the technique gets better, the gap is much less than 33% because of the rest interval before the next power stroke.

Benchmark of the beast. 23rd December. Christmas Treat. (Eric Murray from the kiwi pair I believe (or Bond, but Murray I think))

Any idea why all those near 13 minute rows are all different distances but essentially the same time and same pace?

I'm currently struggling to get my PM3 to work, seems my jack is somewhat broken. It does connect, but no rowing signal yet. Might have to buy another PM.