What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course?

Oct 18, 19 0:22

Post #1 of 44 (5394 views)

What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on the bike course?

Recently, an IRONMAN operated vehicle killed an athlete that was riding on the bike course: https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...3_P6966474/#p6966474

We know that IRONMAN tried to cover up its role in the tragedy, rather than take responsibility and try to improve safety.

IRONMAN allows volunteers to drive their cars on the bike course. When I volunteered as Bike SAG on the full Ironman Arizona course, I was given a link to a video on YouTube (see link below). IRONMAN did not ask me for a copy of my Driver's License, did not check my driving record, didn't encourage me to drive the course prior to the race.

This video shows you the information that IRONMAN provided to Bike SAG volunteers at IM Arizona. As you can see, they decided to cancel the meeting to make things more convenient, to save everyone the hassle. ("there is no Saturday volunteer meeting this year, which is actually kind of a nice thing, because it's kind of difficult to get down there..")
https://www.youtube.com/...amp;feature=youtu.be
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/...amp;feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

A few ideas:

1) How about hiring drivers who are better qualified to safely navigate the course? (This would increase IRONMAN's labor costs, maybe not such a great idea for the corporation.)

2) How about only allowing cars on the bike course when it is absolutely necessary?

[Note: We know that some people on this forum are adverse to improving safety on a race course. They will point out that because there are inherent risks involved in triathlon, any discussion of improving safety is inappropriate.]

Last edited by: Amateur: Oct 18, 19 0:30

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [Amateur] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 1:11

Post #2 of 44 (5356 views)

In some instances, I'm sure just having too many people on the course contributes to the overall safety of participants; especially where there are fast technical sections.

29 years and counting

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [Jorgan] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 1:20

Post #3 of 44 (5348 views)

That's true. IRONMAN lets anyone and everyone participate, regardless of their skill level :)

Jorgan wrote:

In some instances, I'm sure just having too many people on the course contributes to the overall safety of participants; especially where there are fast technical sections.

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [Amateur] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 3:25

Post #4 of 44 (5291 views)

Really on a mission, aren't you.

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 4:20

Post #5 of 44 (5222 views)

SBRcanuck wrote:

Really on a mission, aren't you.

Come on now. Only 145 of his 146 posts have been anti-Ironman. There’s no mission. 😁

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [Amateur] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 4:27

Post #6 of 44 (5199 views)

They can only allow people into races that have bike skills. It’s not an Ironman problem, it’s a lack of bike skills on the participants problem.

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 4:42

Post #7 of 44 (5177 views)

Sanuk wrote:

They can only allow people into races that have bike skills. It’s not an Ironman problem, it’s a lack of bike skills on the participants problem.

Oh come on,you obviously haven't worked out that everything is Ironman's problem. Swim deaths,bike deaths,run deaths,drought,floods,famine in Africa,Brexit,Justin Trudeau,climate change,Me Too,stupid Chinese tourists,Greta Thunbergs hairstyle,Lionel Sanders limp,the entire Kardashian family......EVERYTHING!!

Last edited by: ThailandUltras: Oct 18, 19 4:43

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 5:45

Post #8 of 44 (5083 views)

ThailandUltras wrote:

Sanuk wrote:

They can only allow people into races that have bike skills. It’s not an Ironman problem, it’s a lack of bike skills on the participants problem.

Oh come on,you obviously haven't worked out that everything is Ironman's problem. Swim deaths,bike deaths,run deaths,drought,floods,famine in Africa,Brexit,Justin Trudeau,climate change,Me Too,stupid Chinese tourists,Greta Thunbergs hairstyle,Lionel Sanders limp,the entire Kardashian family......EVERYTHING!!

You forgot all the damn white people in the Ironman Hall of Fame... per his other recently started and asinine topic.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [Amateur] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 5:55

Post #9 of 44 (5062 views)

Jen Annett got taken out by a moto at Kona when is veered in front of her and she crashed into it.

But that was a media moto. I don’t know how Ironman can stop people from being idiots.

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [Amateur] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 7:43

Post #10 of 44 (4958 views)

I would suggest they try a little harder to mitigate danger as they determine the bike courses themselves. I remember IM Boulder 2016 when a participant was killed- I remember being uncomfortable on that particular portion of the bike course and not actually being surprised at such an unfortunate outcome. I fear these instances may continue if they plan these courses out the way they do. For instance, IM St. George 2020. Someone is going to get seriously hurt or killed if they keep the course as reported. Racing down the wall portion of the course is just plain stupid. Anyone that knows that area/ has ridden that part knows what I'm talking about..

"There are two ways to slide easily through life- to believe everything and to doubt everything- both ways save us from thinking "- Korzbyski

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [Amateur] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 7:54

Post #11 of 44 (4929 views)

Cancel the bike?

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [newguy] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 8:04

Post #12 of 44 (4915 views)

I remember the Boulder incident, participant went outside the cones, the defined course. I think like the IMMT situation.

I have encountered a couple situations myself where the crowd was too thick or wide to pass safely while still remaining on the course. I decided NOT to go off course, to risk added time to my race, rather than risk my life. It was an easy decision to make.

I'm actually surprised Dan didn't throw out this thread, too.

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [hadukla] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 8:14

Post #13 of 44 (4890 views)

I certainly understand your point here, but I read it as to how IM could reduce risks. At IM Boulder, those cones and the width of the riding zone with cars buzzing by at 50 or so miles per hour made it a bit sketchy - especially with 2000 or so riders going through there. I was making no claims concerning who is responsible for the unfortunate result. I have no idea why there was the crossing of the cones in that particular instance, so I cannot definitively say I too wouldn't have been forced or chosen in the moment to cross over...

"There are two ways to slide easily through life- to believe everything and to doubt everything- both ways save us from thinking "- Korzbyski

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [Amateur] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 9:13

Post #14 of 44 (4829 views)

You just can't stop, can you? That axe was pretty big when you started, but you've ground it down to a toothpick.

I'm closer to the feathered end of the spear than the point.

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 9:32

Post #15 of 44 (4801 views)

ThailandUltras wrote:

Oh come on,you obviously haven't worked out that everything is Ironman's problem. Swim deaths,bike deaths,run deaths,drought,floods,famine in Africa,Brexit,Justin Trudeau,climate change,Me Too,stupid Chinese tourists,Greta Thunbergs hairstyle,Lionel Sanders limp,the entire Kardashian family......EVERYTHING!!

The first line or two of this really evokes "we didn't start the fire"

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [Amateur] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 10:07

Post #16 of 44 (4748 views)

Change the overall time cutoff to 13 hours, you'd eliminate a ton of traffic

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [newguy] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 10:20

Post #17 of 44 (4712 views)

newguy wrote:

I certainly understand your point here, but I read it as to how IM could reduce risks. At IM Boulder, those cones and the width of the riding zone with cars buzzing by at 50 or so miles per hour made it a bit sketchy - especially with 2000 or so riders going through there. I was making no claims concerning who is responsible for the unfortunate result. I have no idea why there was the crossing of the cones in that particular instance, so I cannot definitively say I too wouldn't have been forced or chosen in the moment to cross over...

I remember this part. It was a climb before, then there was that guy dressed as a pimp with some funny sign, then the climb wrapped around to the right, take a right turn and then the cones started.

I had some close calls there too. I was passing a lot of people in the cones section and this one dude slow passed the person in front of him without checking his rear. I nearly ran into him but had to do a quick traffic check and went around a cone on that section. There wasn’t any space.

I’m not familiar with the course process, but maybe they couldn’t get a full permit for that road or something.

I wish the course was out into the mountains from there with more elevation gain.

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [Amateur] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 10:28

Post #18 of 44 (4691 views)

I think the brand needs to focus on bike courses where cars are completely prohibited for a block of time that day. Taking the cars completely off the road is the way only way to truly eliminate the risk.

Edit: Maybe this is impossible to get 100% no vehicular traffic, but there is always room to get a positive number out there. Maybe a course could have a 90% rating for vehicular free zones and the only way to take it really high would be town council meetings with 100% local community backing to donate their roads for the day to save a potential life.

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Last edited by: plant_based: Oct 18, 19 10:31

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [newguy] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 10:53

Post #19 of 44 (4647 views)

Risk reduction is exactly what I am driving at.

IM Boulder: A congested, high speed descent, immediately adjacent to fast moving auto traffic. This article, written by a competitor that saw Michelle at the time of the fatal incident, makes some good points: https://www.denverpost.com/...-at-ironman-boulder/

Metal fencing an option, as suggested by this article? https://www.denverpost.com/...bicyclist-is-killed/ Of course, this would increase overhead for the Chinese corporation.
Metal fencing would have reduced risk on the Ohio 70.3 course where a cyclist recently died.

I'm not familiar with the wall portion at St. George.

Thanks for your comments, and clarifying that the topic pertains to risk reduction. (We have a number of Ironman tattoo folks here who want to defend the Chinese corporation at every turn, declining to even entertain the possibility that improvements are possible.)

newguy wrote:

I would suggest they try a little harder to mitigate danger as they determine the bike courses themselves. I remember IM Boulder 2016 when a participant was killed- I remember being uncomfortable on that particular portion of the bike course and not actually being surprised at such an unfortunate outcome. I fear these instances may continue if they plan these courses out the way they do. For instance, IM St. George 2020. Someone is going to get seriously hurt or killed if they keep the course as reported. Racing down the wall portion of the course is just plain stupid. Anyone that knows that area/ has ridden that part knows what I'm talking about..

newguy wrote:

I certainly understand your point here, but I read it as to how IM could reduce risks. At IM Boulder, those cones and the width of the riding zone with cars buzzing by at 50 or so miles per hour made it a bit sketchy - especially with 2000 or so riders going through there. I was making no claims concerning who is responsible for the unfortunate result. I have no idea why there was the crossing of the cones in that particular instance, so I cannot definitively say I too wouldn't have been forced or chosen in the moment to cross over...

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [Amateur] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 11:20

Post #20 of 44 (4596 views)

Not this idiot again. This thread should be taken down. Already the cover up accusations and conspiracy theories.

A rider crossed the center line and fell under a car. It's really sad and you are embarrassing yourself by turning a sad event into a BS crusade.

Ironman had no fault here. The course in question was totally safe.

Also, it's Ironman. Just Ironman. What's with the IRONMAN.

Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4

Last edited by: MrRabbit: Oct 18, 19 11:22

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [MrRabbit] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 14:25

Post #21 of 44 (4483 views)

Hey there, thanks for sharing your opinion. We are discussing how to "improve safety" or "reduce risk."

1. metal fences, at least in some circumstances. Would that have saved the riders at Ohio 70.3 and Boulder?
2. Volunteers must show Drivers License, somewhat clean driving record. IM could hire some employees to do SAG, instead of relying exclusively on free volunteers (which saves money for the cheap Chinese corporation)

I realize there is cost & labor involved in implementing these safety measures.

MrRabbit wrote:

Not this idiot again. This thread should be taken down. Already the cover up accusations and conspiracy theories.

A rider crossed the center line and fell under a car. It's really sad and you are embarrassing yourself by turning a sad event into a BS crusade.

Ironman had no fault here. The course in question was totally safe.

Also, it's Ironman. Just Ironman. What's with the IRONMAN.

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [Amateur] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 14:45

Post #22 of 44 (4451 views)

I realize there is cost & labor involved in implementing these safety measures.

-------

And just hope that you realize IM isn't going to eat those costs, you want all those measures be prepared for even higher costs. Just so we are clear.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [Amateur] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 16:00

Post #23 of 44 (4399 views)

Amateur wrote:

Thanks for your comments, and clarifying that the topic pertains to risk reduction. (We have a number of Ironman tattoo folks here who want to defend the Chinese corporation at every turn, declining to even entertain the possibility that improvements are possible.)

First of all, since you're so concerned about trying to improve "IRONMAN" I have to think you are the one with the tattoo, as anyone else concerned about this would simply not race ironman races and put their consumer dollars elsewhere.

Secondly, I can't tell if you are trying to be political or racist by stating it is a Chinese corporation. Given how much you seem to ignore the facts of the situations you keep bringing up, I have to think a combination of the two.

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [hadukla] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 17:22

Post #24 of 44 (4350 views)

hadukla wrote:

Amateur wrote:

Thanks for your comments, and clarifying that the topic pertains to risk reduction. (We have a number of Ironman tattoo folks here who want to defend the Chinese corporation at every turn, declining to even entertain the possibility that improvements are possible.)

First of all, since you're so concerned about trying to improve "IRONMAN" I have to think you are the one with the tattoo, as anyone else concerned about this would simply not race ironman races and put their consumer dollars elsewhere.

Secondly, I can't tell if you are trying to be political or racist by stating it is a Chinese corporation. Given how much you seem to ignore the facts of the situations you keep bringing up, I have to think a combination of the two.

Yep,I think it is funny that he is happy to call all of us out as being racist and or biased when he is the worst of all.At this stage he is like the boy who cried wolf,it no longer matters if he has any valid points because he has become a joke and I'll treat him as such.

I'll also be happily sharing the open roads with the nice Langkawi locals in a week.No fences required.

Last edited by: ThailandUltras: Oct 18, 19 17:24

Re: What can IRONMAN do to improve safety on Bike course? [Amateur] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 18:24

Post #25 of 44 (4290 views)

Consider this your warning post about using phrasing like "cheap Chinese corporation."

That and the course clean-up crew is usually a 1099 or W-2.

You're entitled to a reasonable opinion. Not your own facts. And we will not tolerate any race-based insinuations.

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Our Partners

transition-DOT-area-AT-slowtwitch-DOT-com

Advertise with us

©1999-2024 Slowtwitch, Inc., and Slowtwitch.com
Reproduction of material from any Slowtwitch.com page
without written permission is strictly prohibited.