What Smart Trainer Should I Buy ? (ETA - bought an Hammer)

Aug 17, 20 4:46

Post #1 of 27 (3248 views)

EDIT: So with the helpful advice below, I was able to score a Hammer for the price of the Flux S. I know it's a bit older model, but I felt like it was worthwhile.

Ok, so outdoor swim season is winding down here in Wisconsin, and pretty soon it'll be back to the bike trainer at home. Even IF pools have lap swim or masters, I'm not sure my comfort level with COVID would allow me to swim indoors. SO- what trainer should I get? I'm currently riding on Zwift using a speed/cadence sensor on a basic Cycleops Mag trainer. I want to upgrade to something smart, and have agreed to only spend "a few hundred" dollars with the wife. I'm 210ish lbs in the winter with a current FTP around 240-250. I like to do workouts and group rides on Zwift. I've done a few races, but so far that really hasn't struck a cord with me. I plan on riding 2-3x per week for +/- 60minutes

My LBS is doing an order of both Saris and GarminTacx, so would preferably like to do one of those to support them. For direct drive I'd need a cassette no matter what, because I'm on older DuraAce 2x9.

Do I just get a Saris M2 for $500? Do i really stretch the budget and meaning of a "few hundred" and get a Tacx Flux S for $750+cassette?

The third left-field option would be wait until the Elite Tuo comes out - that thing really intrigues me, but I don't believe that either DCRainmaker or GPLama have had more than a trade-show floor spin on it...

Help!

EDIT: Ok, so with the helpful advice below, I was able to score an H3 for the price of the Flux S. I did call my LBS to let them know and apologize. They sell coffee/beer too so I think I'm indentured to them for a while to make up for them losing the sale...

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html

Last edited by: tallswimmer: Aug 18, 20 13:38

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 5:30

Post #2 of 27 (3202 views)

If your budget is really around $500, then get the Saris M2. That is what I was planning to buy (when it was called the Magnus) before I got am amazing deal on a KICKR. If you are interested in the Ironman VR events, then get a direct drive trainer like the Flux 2. (The Flux is a bit of a lightweight in its class; not bad, but solidly average.) Aside from merely being direct drive, the Flux S does not offer a whole lot over the M2.

Last edited by: exxxviii: Aug 17, 20 5:47

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 5:45

Post #3 of 27 (3183 views)

exxxviii wrote:

If your budget is really around $500, then get the Saris M2. That is what I was planning to buy (when it was called the Magnus) before I got am amazing deal on a KICKR. If you are interested in the Ironman VR events, then get a wheel-on trainer like the Flux 2. (The Flux is a bit of a lightweight in its class; not bad, but solidly average.) Aside from merely being direct drive, the Flux S does not offer a whole lot over the M2.

The flux 2 is a direct drive trainer, not a wheel-on trainer.

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 5:47

Post #4 of 27 (3181 views)

DFW_Tri wrote:

exxxviii wrote:

If your budget is really around $500, then get the Saris M2. That is what I was planning to buy (when it was called the Magnus) before I got am amazing deal on a KICKR. If you are interested in the Ironman VR events, then get a wheel-on trainer like the Flux 2. (The Flux is a bit of a lightweight in its class; not bad, but solidly average.) Aside from merely being direct drive, the Flux S does not offer a whole lot over the M2.

The flux 2 is a direct drive trainer, not a wheel-on trainer.

Doh, typo. I fixed it in my OP.

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 7:33

Post #5 of 27 (3130 views)

Thanks. The M2 is the way I'm leaning, but I didn't know if the experience of direct-drive was worth the upcharge to the Flux S even though the specs are similar. I'm certainly keeping my eyes on craigslist and FB marketplace for a used H3 or something, but it's a tight market out there right now.

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 7:40

Post #6 of 27 (3124 views)

tallswimmer wrote:

The M2 is the way I'm leaning, but I didn't know if the experience of direct-drive was worth the upcharge to the Flux S even though the specs are similar.

IME, I would lean toward the M2. It delivers slightly higher resistance than the Flux S, which would matter in virtual hill simulations when the Flux S hits its resistance floor earlier. And, if you are swapping on and off frequently, the wheel-on is hugely convenient. I do not think there is a massive experience difference between wheel-on vs. direct drive (but, this is from a guy current on a Neo 2 and previously a KICKR and Kurt Kinetic Road Machine).

The H1 was on sale for $500 earlier this year. That was the deal of a lifetime. Then, COVID happened and all the world bought up the global trainer inventory.

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 7:48

Post #7 of 27 (3116 views)

Since you live in Madison. I would contact Saris and see if they have any demo or slightly dinged models they want to sell...

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [MadisonMan] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 10:24

Post #8 of 27 (3064 views)

I live right down the road. Maybe I'll just go knock on the front door and ask ;) haha.

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 10:51

Post #9 of 27 (3040 views)

The H3 is often on sale in the $799-850 area per DC Rainmaker. I saw one at $799 recently.

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [abrowntd] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 11:10

Post #10 of 27 (3024 views)

A man can dream, but add a cassette to an already stretched budget and it's just a bit out of reach...

ETA, this thread was basically to confirm that the M2 was the right trainer for me, and quality direct drive is juuuust a bit out of reach.

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html

Last edited by: tallswimmer: Aug 17, 20 11:13

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [abrowntd] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 12:20

Post #11 of 27 (2970 views)

abrowntd wrote:

The H3 is often on sale in the $799-850 area per DC Rainmaker. I saw one at $799 recently.

I got the H2 as a scratch and dent for $699 before the H3 came out. It has worked great and unless you looked very hard, you wouldn't know there was any cosmetic damage at all. Of course, after COVID, there are not many trainers available so I doubt they have scratch and dent sales. I personally like the direct drive trainers. They're much quieter and run better with any of the training software you may use. YMMV

_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 12:37

Post #12 of 27 (2953 views)

Tacx Neo. Well worth the price. You won't regret it.

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 12:57

Post #13 of 27 (2933 views)

tallswimmer wrote:

A man can dream, but add a cassette to an already stretched budget and it's just a bit out of reach...

ETA, this thread was basically to confirm that the M2 was the right trainer for me, and quality direct drive is juuuust a bit out of reach.

I just went from a wheel on trainer to a direct drive and it's worth the extra $$$ to me. Even though the wheel on trainer worked well, the need to do a spin down calibration every time it was used was a pain. Plus I had to really crank down the roller to the tire to prevent slipping when doing low cadence high watts like some the steeper climbs.

You can use your 9 speed cassette on any of the new direct drive trainers. That's what I did. I had an old 12-27 9 speed off my old Trek SC. Swapped out the 11 speed that came on the trainer and it works perfectly.

I bough an Elite Suito from bike tires direct. If you're a gold member with them there is a discount that makes it worth the difference in price over a wheel on trainer for $500. Plus you could always sell or trade the 11 speed cassette it comes with for a 9 or 10 speed.

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [bjgwoody] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 13:20

Post #14 of 27 (2906 views)

bjgwoody wrote:

Tacx Neo. Well worth the price. You won't regret it.

Gotta love ST 🤣🤣

Me: “I’m on a budget”
ST “double your budget”

I appreciate the advice, but Neos are more than twice, nearly 3 times what I’m able to spend.

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 13:30

Post #15 of 27 (2892 views)

Kind of echoing what has been said, but, the direct drive trainer is totally worth it. The noise from my old wheel on trainer would drive my wife crazy in the morning.

I had the same budget issues, so, I’d recommend buying through zwift. I got a kickr for 0% for 24 months. Roughy 40 bucks a month, and I can pay off at any time without penalty. My only upfront cost was the cassette, which was 40 bucks.

I run a 2x9 as well, the kickr comes with a spacer for it. I am also tall, 200lbs, and a swimmer. We are basically twins.

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 13:55

Post #16 of 27 (2862 views)

I get that it’s a stretch to go to direct drive with needing a cassette etc. as well.

But

They really are worth the extra. I went from a Tacx Vortex to a Wahoo Kickr 2. The difference for me at least is night and day.

You really wouldn’t regret spending the additional $$ to get the Flux.

I ride:
Cervelo - P-Series/R3
GT - Sensor Carbon Expert

Supporters - Flo Cycling, Mount Bikes

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 15:30

Post #17 of 27 (2806 views)

tallswimmer wrote:

Ok, so outdoor swim season is winding down here in Wisconsin, and pretty soon it'll be back to the bike trainer at home. Even IF pools have lap swim or masters, I'm not sure my comfort level with COVID would allow me to swim indoors. SO- what trainer should I get? I'm currently riding on Zwift using a speed/cadence sensor on a basic Cycleops Mag trainer. I want to upgrade to something smart, and have agreed to only spend "a few hundred" dollars with the wife. I'm 210ish lbs in the winter with a current FTP around 240-250. I like to do workouts and group rides on Zwift. I've done a few races, but so far that really hasn't struck a cord with me. I plan on riding 2-3x per week for +/- 60minutes

My LBS is doing an order of both Saris and GarminTacx, so would preferably like to do one of those to support them. For direct drive I'd need a cassette no matter what, because I'm on older DuraAce 2x9.

Do I just get a Saris M2 for $500? Do i really stretch the budget and meaning of a "few hundred" and get a Tacx Flux S for $750+cassette?

The third left-field option would be wait until the Elite Tuo comes out - that thing really intrigues me, but I don't believe that either DCRainmaker or GPLama have had more than a trade-show floor spin on it...

Help!

I’m gonna throw a wrench in the works and suggest keeping your old trainer and getting a power meter to replace the speed / cadence sensor. Then you’ll have something to use outside too.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 16:15

Post #18 of 27 (2786 views)

Hmm. Well I haven’t ridden outside for 2(???) years. Quite the depressing thought, but the reality of my work/family balance. I like the out-of-the box thinking though!

ETA - I haven't ridden my road bike outside in 2 years. The Burley is always hooked to my townie for trips out and about with the kids. A PM for that, while interesting, wouldn't really do much...

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html

Last edited by: tallswimmer: Aug 17, 20 18:25

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]

Aug 18, 20 6:20

Post #19 of 27 (2667 views)

As another Madison resident, this is currently listed on craigslist:
https://madison.craigslist.org/...iner/7172676974.html

Cassette included.

-- Scott

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]

Aug 18, 20 9:04

Post #20 of 27 (2608 views)

I have ridden a number of Zwift setups and here is the thing about direct drive smart trainers: the differences between units only matter if you are doing really precise interval workout and need to hit exact outputs in very quick succession. If you look at DC-rainmakers test protocol it is designed to split these differences as they all work about the same for SST training or just riding around the island. I have found tire slippage very irritating on certain wheel on set-ups but had no issues on others so mixed bag in that respect when comparing direct drive and wheel on trainers. The big thing about wheel on trainers is that the power estimates are garbage.

If I were going to spend $500-$750 on an indoor setup I would buy a single sided power meter and ride for a few months before deciding if you need anything else. Personally the game changer for me in terms of indoor training and Zwift was moving from estimated power to real power. I currently have a direct drive trainer and I do like the ride feel better than any wheel on trainer I have ridden but its a marginal difference compared to when I moved from estimated power to a power meter on my wheel on trainer. In fact I had to build a rocker plate when I moved to a direct drive unit as I found it so stiff and unforgiving I couldn't ride for an hour without major discomfort. I have since become a big fan of rocker plates but they are big, heavy and ungainly things that require the right sort of dedicated set-up.

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [scott8888] [ In reply to ]

Aug 18, 20 10:01

Post #21 of 27 (2590 views)

scott8888 wrote:

In fact I had to build a rocker plate when I moved to a direct drive unit as I found it so stiff and unforgiving I couldn't ride for an hour without major discomfort. I have since become a big fan of rocker plates but they are big, heavy and ungainly things that require the right sort of dedicated set-up.

This is actually an unsung big deal. I went from a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine to a KICKR to a Tacx Neo 2. The KICKR was totally rigid, and it limited my out-of-the-saddle effots and also just allowed less movement and shifting for comfort. The KICKR rides were more fatiguing than the KKRM. The Neo does not rock like a rocker plate, but it does allow some side-to-side flex. This was a total game changer in terms of workout impact and comfort. If I didn't have a Neo, I would have a rocker plate.

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Aug 18, 20 11:40

Post #22 of 27 (2555 views)

Just wanted to put this out here, I realize that it's almost double your budget, but still seems like a really good deal.
https://www.brandscycle.com/...sEAQYASABEgJP5_D_BwE

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [trener1] [ In reply to ]

Aug 18, 20 13:27

Post #23 of 27 (2511 views)

Thanks for that - they had another coupon on top of that so I was down to $750 for a brand spanking new hammer. That was worth the budget stretch. Merry Christmas, Happy Birthday, Happy Anniversary to me, haha.

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html

Last edited by: tallswimmer: Aug 18, 20 13:38

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]

Aug 18, 20 15:10

Post #24 of 27 (2473 views)

Great decision! You will love that one. It is in another universe from the Flux trainers-- one of the elite best three!

Re: What Smart Trainer Should I Buy? [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]

Aug 18, 20 17:12

Post #25 of 27 (2436 views)

Are you replying to me?.
That one from Brands was a Hammer not the H3, but still a killer trainer, and well worth the price of admission, I am sure that you will love every minute of it.

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