It may help to have some background on why or what context you want to know this.

much of what you said is relative or vague. BEST carbon, what does that mean? Lightest? Weight isn't as important for tri/TT as it is for road. And disc brakes on tri/TT bikes are not as far along as they are for road bikes, it could be debated whether that means a bike is definitively "better" or more "super".

what makes you say Trek's SC is mass marketed with a lower price? They have one stock model currently which retails for $4200 at lowest spec option. that's much higher than the $3k or high $2k pricepoints that many brands have as their starting price point for tri bikes. The Speed Concept has a large presence on their project 1 custom platform which is a higher-end way to build a bike pricewise, and I wouldn't say it's mass marketed since each one is custom...

The Speed Concept is still one of the fastest frames on the market. Sure Trek has been slow on the disc brake side of things but for triathlon racing and sheer speed don't sell the Speed Concept short. I think its the best value in the marketplace.

Likewise the Giant Trinity is a very fast bike. Giant tends to offer better value than many other brands, but that doesn’t make them any less good.

---

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

GG

Every bike manufacture has their own "super bike" and I don't think you can determine that by the price of the bike. Nor has a "super bike" ever been defined by having disc brakes.....that I'm aware of.

Trek Speed Concept.....you can easily get one for tricked out for $12k, no disc brakes, and came in second last year in Kona.
Canyon Speedmax....you can easily get one tricked out for 12k, no disc brakes, and has won Kona the last few years.

Or you can get several other "super bikes" tricked out for $12, with disc brakes, who has never seen the podium at Kona.

It's your money.

The idea of the "Super Bike" is fading a bit. It used to be identified with complete bikes that have integrated or hidden rim brakes, an integrated cockpit, integrated storage, and manufactured with the most advanced carbon and layup.

What has changed:

1. Most bikes at all levels have integrated storage
2. Great cockpits exist that equal (and in many cases better) integrated cockpits
3. Rim brakes are being dropped from most lines
4. Most makers offer the same frame design in 2 or 3 different carbon layups.

So, "Super Bike" today is generally anything over $10K, because at that price point, they will possess most of the above. These are the bikes I put in the Super Bike category:

• Felt IA FRD
• Trek Speed Concept
• Cervelo P5 and PX
• Pinarello Bolide
• Specialized Shiv S-Works (the new one)
• Ventum One
• Tririg Omni
• QR PR6
  

• Dimond Marquise (when built properly)
• Canyon Speedmax SLX
• Scott Plasma 5/Premium
• BMC TM01
• Factor Slick
• Argon 18 E-118/E-119
• Giant Trinity Advanced Pro 1

Once you really start to list them out, certainly seems like there are a lot out there.

---

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

Hi fellows,

Interesting that no one mentioned the Quintara Roo :)

Oh snap. Could it be that every manufacturer's top tier bike is a Super Bike. ;)

I am embarrassed that I forgot a few that you added in my initial post. Though, I did it quickly without clicking around.

In my list: "QR PR6."

I ran into this lady who recently purchased P5X on facebook. SHe said she used to own Speed Concept, but P5X is way faster and more comfortable. I have another guy who's a beast on the bike switched from Sped Concept to P5D and he also said Cervelo is better. I thought that was interesting because I always like the Speed Concept and thought it's fast.

It's easier to justify a ~$9000 purchase if you convince yourself it's way better than your previous bike. Not saying it isn't better, but someone would feel/look pretty silly if they drop a chunk of cash and then say, "well that was a downgrade!"

---

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

With all do respect, that kind of anecdotal feedback is useless. Most people that drop $12k on a P5 are going to feel a need to justify such a purchase.

We have come pretty close to “peak aero.” The days of dropping $10k to get a meaningful upgrade over your five year old super bike seem to be over.

Still, bikes are fun to buy and build, so by all means indulge yourself.

To each their own......but the SC has been proven the fastest frame since it came out. No pimping SC here but the Kamm tail design is the real deal....and that's why its been copied so much.

As far as what is faster per person....well that personal. What fast for one person's fit may be slow for another.

I'd love to see some of this proof that the SC is the fastest frame. I have no doubt it's fast, but someone could make a completely filled in, single speed frame with double discs and 5 different tunnel tests would show various results. Pretty much the only thing that's been proven in regards to the fastest bikes is that nothing has been proven.

---

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

I don't disagree with anything above.

I just always had the opinion that the concept for a triathlon superbike to be kind of like a vehicular supercar. It is designed around a special purpose instead of taking a device with a much more rounded or general purpose and "adding on" or "modifying" it to be better.

Tri superbikes have no need to conform to UCI rules. That isn't to say you can't work around or start with something you could use for both UCI TT and triathlon as a "superbike". Just saying, in my mind.......the triathlon superbike should start as a blank slate ignoring anything hindering it by UCI TT rules.

I know there are still triathlon bike rules also, but I guess my idea kind of makes sense?

Honestly that's why I loved the concept of the Ceepo Shadow-R so much. I still don't know if it was the fastest bike out there, and based on my splits I can be pretty sure it didn't magically give me 30 watts, but it was at least an attempt at redesigning from the ground up more or less. I liked the willingness to go outside the box. It feels like Ceepo also didn't really believe in the bike either though, as they don't really advertise it except as an eye catcher, and never really cared that I'm still the only pro ever to have ridden it. Oh well. Kudos to them for trying!

---

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

I met Tanakasan months ago in Tokyo where he had several bikes at a shop for customers to try, including the Shadow and Shadow-R. He is very passionate about those bikes and you could tell by the relative giddiness in his voice as he talked about them. Maybe he was just trying to sell me one of them, but I do understand how you feel. I do believe he isn't the greatest at advertising, but that is no surprise here in Japan where most people stick with one job for life, and he likely couldn't put much advertising experience on his CV. I liked the idea he had for the Shadow-R even though it took a bit of time for me to get accustomed to no fork and what looked like fenders on a superbike. IMO the Shadow is a better looking bike, but aesthetics doesn't always = speed. I think he kind of just got caught up in the "If you build it they will come" mentality.

---

The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

I've loved my marquise rim (race build) so far. Interested to know what you mean by "when built properly." I bought a tririg alpha one that I'm gonna install someday [when racing looks possible] because the 3T aduro cockpit that came stock is a pain to deal with. Wondering if there are other things I should be considering.

i'm just trying to figure out if you're a quebecois that studied at UF or a UF graduate that moved to Quebec. cool handle either way.

Oh I mean cockpit is definitely the most important thing. And even though some of the other bikes listed have cockpit options, for some reason I've seen way too many high end Dimonds pretty much ruined by a junk cockpit, or 40mm of stem spacers and a 16° rise stem.

Alpha one mates perfectly with that bike and will be incredible. Personally I think the bulk of bikes, especially some odd frame shapes like the Dimond or my Tririg, look way better with a 1x build as well, but that's a different discussion :P

---

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

I said FRAME.........not a tricked out double disc BIKE.

The double disc thing was just a theoretical. Not related to the SC at all. I'm just saying that you could create a test that "proves" any bike is fast or slow. I've never seen any test that says a SC is faster than any other bike. I've also never seen one that says it's slower. To claim it is "the fastest" frame is unprovable at best.

---

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

anyone keep on the Ceepo?

This was always my working definition. Nothing more, nothing less.