On another thread, Pick6 was estimating age group doping being over 10%. Pokey and I were sharing some thoughts. I have no clue, but I seriously doubt 1 in 10 of my peers is doing. Must be more like 1 or two out of 100. Maybe I am giving people too much credit. I could be totally wrong but among all the Kona qualifiers who I have trained with, I have never gotten a whiff of a single one of them on dope. Usually if there is fire, you end up smelling smoke. If it was 1:10, we'd be smelling more smoke. At least that is my thought. I could be totally wrong, but I hope it is only around 1%.

I for one, have never doped and have gotten to Kona six straight years. I'm not looking for a medal or kudos or anything...just saying.

I'm also not aware of any AGers that have doped to get to Kona...meaning that I don't have any knowledge of any individual being sauced. I'm sure they're out there, but I don't know any of them. But then again, I don't get out much and prefer to train alone.

If there ever was OOC testing, I'd be the first one in line volunteering for it. Until then, I guess it's just going to be my word.

ETA: Others here on the forum have posted opposition to testing AGers. I, for one, would gladly pay extra and provide my whereabouts year round so that clean racing can assured within the AG ranks. It's important to me, since my results and those of the athletes I coach affect my business. If there was dirty racing going on that negatively affected those results, I would want it eliminated.

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Steve Johnson
DARK HORSE TRIATHLON |

My guess is at least 80% but I have nothing to base it on other than I live in So Cal and see all the kids on roids and fake tits everywhere so I have a pretty skewed perspective.

US or Euro?

Good point. Maybe an estimate for each.

OTOH, anecdotes of IV bags hanging from hotel sprinklers at IM races have started popping up... even if only 25% of those stories are true then it's way more than just pros.

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I'm also not aware of any AGers that have doped to get to Kona///

Surly you are aware of a guy named Kevin Moats?

I am hoping he falls into the one percent group....maybe I am too optimistic thinking that only 15 age groupers out of 1500 are doped. 2 percent puts it at 30 at Kona.

I don't personally know anyone...or at least don't know of their actions if they have.

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Steve Johnson
DARK HORSE TRIATHLON |

Here's kinda the slippery slope of doping. Let's take a look at cycling, we all would say, how could 1 guy beat a doped peloton in reference to Lance's clean claims. So, if we take that same mindset, do we have to essentially question every athlete that competed/beat guys that we know that doped?

So for instance if we know KM was doping, and he was highly competitive, how are we suppose to view the ones that raced with similiar results against him? Suspicious, not suspicious, (is it one of those things where it's secretly in the back of our mind we think it's suspicious but just dont want to publicly admit anything)? I guess this is kinda on par with just about any athlete (take the guys that competed against Mark Fretta for instance...do we secretly question the other Americans, do we give them a pass, etc.).

And I'm not trying to call out anyone, I'm curious how we in fact view the athletes that are actually competing against and beating guys that do get popped for doping. Does it then raise our level of doubt for those athletes!?!?

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

No number you will get in this thread will be accurate. To see how "deep" PEDs run there would have to be widespread drug testing such as that in professional cycling (and still you have a debatable dark figure).

However, your question may get a decent statistic on how many slowtwitch Ironman athletes feel cheated :-)

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Will be going 2nd time in as many years in oct and know tons of local guys that would never need doping in the ag ranks. Just guessing lots of the North American AGers are clean. Don't know about the culture of AG sport in other areas though.

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I bet it's over 10% at the FOP. I'd guess 20% of the top-10%. I'm just pulling that out of my keister but it might be a conservative estimate.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

I think those who are battling for a spot in the tight mens AG's 25-49 are most likely. I'd say the most likely guys are the last 1-2 in those AG to KQ and probably some of the ones just behind them. Overall I would guess about 3% are knowingly doping and twice that many who are doing it unknowingly.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

I think it also depends on which age groups are looked at, and whether you'd consider testosterone doping.

I have never doped. I have not qualified for Kona. Ergo, one must dope to qualify for Kona. Recognize.

10% does sound high. There are 6 KQers in my local club of a hundred or so, 2 female, 4 male, and one of the males has doped. I don't know if he still does, if he did it the years he KQed, or any of the fine details, but I know he did it at one time.

why would you pick that AG? If we're going to blindly finger point at AGs, 35-39 & 40-44M would be most suspect, in my opinion. Trained a long time, much higher disposable income than 25-29, and approaching losing the chance to turn pro.

How about this:

What is the perceived doping breakdown between men and women?

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@adamwfurlong

Mmm Kay... "T" is doping ... ask WADA

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http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

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He wrote 25-49...


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Perception is that more men dope than women but reality is probably 50-50. My understanding is that T and steroids have a bigger impact for women (increased side effects ?). Just look at East Germany and China in swimming ...

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http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

I have been around gyms all my life. I know a few people who I think may use but do not know for sure. Most triathletes are not in with that group of hard lifters/body builders. My questions are
1. how would a triathlete get the PEDS?
2. wouldn't most triathletes be afraid of their reputation being hurt by asking someone where to buy PEDS
3. i know of no doctors who prescribe PEDS
4. where would these triathletes buy PEDS
Because of this i think very few use. I may just be out of the know but it just seems to me after being around gyms it must be a very well guarded secret. i never hear people talking about it. How about others would you even know how to get PEDS, and who would stick a needle in themselves. People would really want to cheat to go to all the trouble.

Agreed. Even under the guise/euphemism of "vitality".

I have been around a subset of Kona qual crowd for a couple of decades. I will say that times got faster for KQ in the last 5, but that could just be better gear and more knowledge. I know many many KQ worldwide quite well, and I'm yet to smell any smoke. Most of the guys I have had the pleasure to associate with, made gradual gains over really long periods of time, with a ton of hours of training (seems like most of the guys are 550-900 hour per year guys). Yes, there is the outlier guy who suddenly makes 30 minute gains at the age of 44, but I don't actually personally know those guys, I'm smelling the smoke third hand from " he said she said".

At least in my community in Ottawa, we know the KQ guys quite well. Most are shaving off a few minutes here and there and their performances are in line with indicators year over year and race over race. At least around here, I'd be totally floored if most of the guys who are KQ'ing or on the cusp are doped. But maybe we live in a bubble too that is different from other places where anti aging docs and other docs that my give out EPO are numerous.