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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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It’s not even close, either.

Nike’s assertion is “cute”.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [NUFCrichard] [ In reply to ]
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NUFCrichard wrote:
There are a lot of names who play North American specific sports being put into the top lists.
Baseball, Hockey and NFL aren't worldwide games, that shouldn't be forgotten when picking the greatest of all time. Picking Jordan and Lebron James is the same as picking Muttiah Muralitharan or Sachin Tendulkar.

How many truly worldwide sports are there? Hockey is certainly played in Europe...and many of the top players in the NHL have come from there. But again, its NOT world-wide...at least at a professional competitive level.

I tried to watch cricket once. It's worse than baseball (which is pretty poor)---I won't be making any GOAT picks from either of those sports. Neither of them meet the standard of general athleticism for me. <flame suit on>
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
NUFCrichard wrote:
There are a lot of names who play North American specific sports being put into the top lists.
Baseball, Hockey and NFL aren't worldwide games, that shouldn't be forgotten when picking the greatest of all time. Picking Jordan and Lebron James is the same as picking Muttiah Muralitharan or Sachin Tendulkar.


How many truly worldwide sports are there? Hockey is certainly played in Europe...and many of the top players in the NHL have come from there. But again, its NOT world-wide...at least at a professional competitive level.

I tried to watch cricket once. It's worse than baseball (which is pretty poor)---I won't be making any GOAT picks from either of those sports. Neither of them meet the standard of general athleticism for me. <flame suit on>

Flame suit should be on big time. On this thread guys put Bo Jackson in the all time list...enough athleticism there. I don't need to wade into cricket examples because 95% of you guys won't get it, so not even worth bringing up? I hope to be at the test match at Lords on Sunday.

As for sports that are worldwide....hey what about football...as in soccer?
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Flame suit should be on big time.


:-) I probably should have put that in pink. Kinda. I'm not a bat-and-ball sports guy.

devashish_paul wrote:


On this thread guys put Bo Jackson in the all time list...enough athleticism there.

I didn't put up a "list", but I like DTOCE's list-by-sport. However, Bo would not make my list---not enough longevity. Besides...his other sport was....baseball. See above. :-)

devashish_paul wrote:


I don't need to wade into cricket examples because 95% of you guys won't get it, so not even worth bringing up? I hope to be at the test match at Lords on Sunday.

As for sports that are worldwide....hey what about football...as in soccer?


I grew up playing soccer (18 years of it), but I've always hated watching it. However, I find selecting a GOAT athlete from team sports problematic---its very difficult to separate the team from the player. Any candidate from that realm has to really transcend the "team" aspect. Gretsky is the only team-sports player (that I know of) that comes close to that, to me.
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Sep 7, 18 7:50
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Don't get so upset. Katie Ledecky can claim she is the fastest female swimmer over this or that distance. She just can't claim she is the fastest swimmer ever.

JasoninHalifax wrote:
imsparticus wrote:
While I agree with you that is better at her sport than Serena at hers. And I believe Ledecky dominates her events like no other swimmer. Ledecky cannot lay claim to being the best swimmer since she can't beat the top males. Just the way it is.

Tri-Banter wrote:
Even as far as females go, Katie Ledecky is better at her sport than Serena at hers. In fact, Katie might be the greatest ever, mens or womens in any sport.


So effin' what? It's generally accepted that you only measure against your potential competition, and for the most part that means that males are measured against males and females against females. Para-athletes get measured against other para-athletes. It really doesn't matter that Ledecky is behind the top males, since she isn't competing against them.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Flame suit should be on big time.


:-) I probably should have put that in pink. Kinda. I'm not a bat-and-ball sports guy.

devashish_paul wrote:


On this thread guys put Bo Jackson in the all time list...enough athleticism there.

I didn't put up a "list", but I like DTOCE's list-by-sport. However, Bo would not make my list---not enough longevity. Besides...his other sport was....baseball. See above. :-)

devashish_paul wrote:


I don't need to wade into cricket examples because 95% of you guys won't get it, so not even worth bringing up? I hope to be at the test match at Lords on Sunday.

As for sports that are worldwide....hey what about football...as in soccer?


I grew up playing soccer (18 years of it), but I've always hated watching it. However, I find selecting a GOAT athlete from team sports problematic---its very difficult to separate the team from the player. Any candidate from that realm has to really transcend the "team" aspect. Gretsky is the only team-sports player (that I know of) that comes close to that, to me.

longevity isn't really a huge factor for me, especially since there are pretty wide differences in shelf life of different sports. I tend to think of it as "who was the most dominant at their peak"? A tougher question, perhaps.

Reading through the thread, I had forgotten about Jim Thorpe. Yeah, he's the greatest overall athlete of all time

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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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I agree to a point... But Bo was never the dominant player in football and he only played for 4 incomplete years only playing 11 games once in that time.

He never even has a single 1000 yard rushing season.

Compare that to just about any other big name to play his position for any single season....

Not. Even. Close.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, I agree that he's not the greatest athlete of all time. Still impressive though....

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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
However, I find selecting a GOAT athlete from team sports problematic---its very difficult to separate the team from the player. Any candidate from that realm has to really transcend the "team" aspect. Gretsky is the only team-sports player (that I know of) that comes close to that, to me.
I don't want to start down a rat-hole, but I'd suggest that not everyone agrees that Gretzky is the GOAT for hockey. He's on a very short list with Orr, Lemieux and Howe, and there are arguments that can be made for any of the four.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [sjn] [ In reply to ]
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That's fine. My point was really about the difficulty of separating the team from the player...most team sports "greats" are equal part team and player. Very few get the opportunity to demonstrate that THEIR ability transcends that of the team that they play with.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
Again you leave off margaret court. 24 slam wins. She also is only one of three women to complete the grand slam... Which Serena has NOT done.

Margaret also won't the Australian open 11 times. More than any other tennis player repeatedly won any single tournament. Serena 7. .

At the time Court was winning the Aussie, it was a completely different tournament than it is today. It had a much weaker field than the other slams.

And whether you agree with it or not, Court's legacy also gets knocked down by many people because she's very unlikeable.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
That's fine. My point was really about the difficulty of separating the team from the player...most team sports "greats" are equal part team and player. Very few get the opportunity to demonstrate that THEIR ability transcends that of the team that they play with.
Completely agree. Though some of that can be demonstrated when elite team players play for different teams over the course of their career, with similar results. Lebron (though I'm not a fan) is a prime example of this.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [nc452010] [ In reply to ]
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To me, the only way to ascribe GOAT status is within the context of the sport in question and the timeframe in question.

For an obscure example, Link Lyman, who played with the Canton Bulldogs and Chicago Bears in the 1920s, is considered one of the all-time great offensive tackles. But he was about 6-2, 230 - smaller than many running backs today - and might not start on some high school teams today because football players are so much bigger, stronger and faster. Comparing across sports? That's just not possible. How do you compare 6-2, 235lb, 4.3 40 Bo Jackson to 5-8, 161lb Pele or 5-7 160lb Messi?

Honestly, within the context of her sport, I think Serena is obviously the GOAT. She's much bigger, stronger and faster than Margaret Court or Martina and is playing against much deeper fields than existed in their days. I think she'd beat either of them in their prime, but, of course, that is only conjecture.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [thickasabrick51] [ In reply to ]
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thickasabrick51 wrote:
To me, the only way to ascribe GOAT status is within the context of the sport in question and the timeframe in question.

For an obscure example, Link Lyman, who played with the Canton Bulldogs and Chicago Bears in the 1920s, is considered one of the all-time great offensive tackles. But he was about 6-2, 230 - smaller than many running backs today - and might not start on some high school teams today because football players are so much bigger, stronger and faster. Comparing across sports? That's just not possible. How do you compare 6-2, 235lb, 4.3 40 Bo Jackson to 5-8, 161lb Pele or 5-7 160lb Messi?

Honestly, within the context of her sport, I think Serena is obviously the GOAT. She's much bigger, stronger and faster than Margaret Court or Martina and is playing against much deeper fields than existed in their days. I think she'd beat either of them in their prime, but, of course, that is only conjecture.

But that’s not what nike claims. They claim she’s the greatest athlete.

Like I said. That’s cute.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Jim Thorpe - GOAT
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [Phunctional] [ In reply to ]
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You're all wrong...how did we even get to page 2 without the obvious answer:


Mat Fraser Dominates the 2018 CrossFit Open
:)
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [GOAT] [ In reply to ]
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wow, Thorpe is amazing.

wikipedia wrote:

James Francis Thorpe (Sac and Fox (Sauk): Wa-Tho-Huk, translated as "Bright Path";[4] May 22 or 28,[2] 1887 – March 28, 1953)[5] was an American athlete and Olympic gold medalist. A member of the Sac and Fox Nation, Thorpe became the first Native American to win a gold medal for the United States. Considered one of the most versatile athletes of modern sports, he won Olympic gold medals in the 1912 pentathlon and decathlon, and played American football (collegiate and professional), professional baseball, and basketball.

Serena is impressive but when I think "greatest athlete", I think of a lot of sports before tennis. I do put it ahead of golf though, so she beats Tiger. I don't know how Nike feels about that.

to give a different perspective, I always hated this a-hole. SURE he won the gold medals, and SURE his bike cross-training made him good enough to be a competent cyclist, BUT THEN he had to go to Stanford medical school. friggin show-off.


wikipedia wrote:

Eric Arthur Heiden (born June 14, 1958) is an American physician and a former long track speed skater, road cyclist and track cyclist. He won an unprecedented five individual gold medals, and set four Olympic records and one world record at the 1980 Winter Olympic Games. Heiden was the most successful athlete at those Olympic Games, single-handedly winning more gold medals than all nations except for the Soviet Union (10) and East Germany (9).[2] He is the most successful Winter Olympian from a single edition of any Winter Olympics. He delivered the Athlete's Oath at those same 1980 Games. His coach was Dianne Holum.[3]

Heiden is an icon in the speed skating community. His victories are significant, as few speed skaters (and athletes in general) have won competitions in both sprint and long-distance events. Heiden is the only athlete in the history of speed skating to have won all five events in a single Olympic tournament and the only one to have won a gold medal in all events. He is considered by some to be the best overall speed skater (short and long distances) in the sport's history. Heiden ranked No. 46 in ESPN's SportsCentury 50 Greatest Athletes of the 20th Century in 1999, the only speed skater to make the list. In 2000, a Dutch newspaper called him the greatest skater ever.[4]
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [dsmallwood] [ In reply to ]
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Heiden would make my list.

So would this guy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Karelin
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [Phunctional] [ In reply to ]
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Phunctional wrote:
Jim Thorpe - GOAT

Its this.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [ironmayb] [ In reply to ]
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you mean this guy?

wikipedia wrote:

Karelin won gold medals at the 1988, 1992 and 1996 Olympic Games and a silver medal at the 2000 Olympic Games.

His wrestling record is 887 wins and two losses.

13 years undefeated

six years without giving up a point

yea, that's pretty good.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [dsmallwood] [ In reply to ]
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I forgot about that guy! I never watched wrestling except in the Olympics....but, that guy was as dominant as anyone ever could be. Most of the time it was just NO CONTEST. Maybe performances like that get lost because they make it look absolutely effortless, like no one else is even trying.

Wouldn't want to piss off that guy.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
I think everyone in the first and second world has heard of Slater except maybe you? Surfing is now an Olympic sport so hardly a fringe sport...

Nope, most people outside of surfing areas have never heard of him. Very few surfers outside of the west coast and Hawaii.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [imsparticus] [ In reply to ]
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We all have to give the Nike advertising department a lot of credit. I can't think of too many other ads that have caused so much discussion.
I mean people really liked that Hump Day Camel but I can remember what product he was advertising.
Hate or love Nike, we are all talking about their unfounded claims.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [Bifff] [ In reply to ]
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Budweiser frogs.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Edwin Moses is on the list as well of all-time greatest, winning 107 consecutive finals over 10 years.

And just to represent swimming a little, Michael Phelps.

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