Here's the thing, Monty -- it wouldn't sell out if you had a mass of people that needed to either be pulled out of the water or DNF'd. You'd be lucky to reach 75% capacity the following year. //


We dont know that, maybe there are a lot more like you skipping the race because it caters to the BOP swimmers. It really is a thing that cant be known unless you actually implement it. And from the sounds of it, perhaps it was just going to be 100 to 200 that were going to be left off, that could be easily be replaced in a heartbeat from the waiting lists that accrue on sold out races...

We had a few athletes there -- I'd call them solidly MOP in terms of swim performance -- I think they would have been borderline, given the description of the conditions I was given.

To borrow the phrase, it's an unknown unknown. If they wind up having to pull 600 people out of the water, we kill them for endangering athletes. If they lean towards cancelling a swim, we kill them for making the sport "soft." For me, I wouldn't ever choose to race in Chattanooga because I don't care for the possibility of a swim getting cut short. It's too bad, because the bike and run are more my style.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Realistically, the Chattanooga 70.3 scenario is a fringe case. How many races have an upstream river swim? Is this the only one?
And second, how many times in its history has it been shortened (just 2017 and 2019, or more)?

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Some other races have a upsteam and downstream that are both IM branded and non-brand events (just a weekend ago in NC the half/full Crystal Coast had a upsteam and downstream "tidal" swim.




Yes 2 years of shortened swims in a 5 year race history. That's not good stats for such a young race.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

 For me, I wouldn't ever choose to race in Chattanooga because I don't care for the possibility of a swim getting cut short. It's too bad, because the bike and run are more my style.

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Funny note- I coached an D1 runner who was part of the CRP program few years back. Her 1st 4 triathlons she swam once. Races in Florida, NC and Alabama all had cancelled swims (NC- water quality; Florida- water quality post hurricane; Alabama- "athlete safety" due to recent rains and currents too fast at a National Championship event no less). I half joked, half seriously suggested maybe full time duathlon was her calling.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I'd like to add that Ironman knows their customer a lot better than any of us. But there is also a safety issue. At best, with the safety assets involved at a typical race (about 150-200), you can get roughly a couple hundred athletes out of the water safely in a short period of time. The last thing you want is to overwhelm the safety assets. It makes every athlete less safe. There was a reason that Cozumel changed the course the year after the current changed and 400 athletes couldn't finish. It was both a safety and a marketing decision. Ironman knows its customers and wants to keep them safe.

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I agree with your thoughts but man does it not suck. It’s like they get “excused” cus they have 4K people so they HAVE to do this process more and more when *any* adversity in the swim occurs *it seems* over the last few years.

It just seems like it’s to the point where any wind or any current or any wave action in the water and you have to check to make sure the swim occurs. I guess it’s more aggravation. And again I’m not saying in *obvious* dangerous swim situations, but it just seems like “meh” rough conditions will result in automatic swim change.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Is this description for the opposite bank of the river from the finish? Why is the start currently on the opposite river bank? I just checked Google maps and on the same side of the river as Ross Landing Park, there is a building with a dock named "Rowing Center". It is approx. 1.38 miles from Ross Landing Park. Why not line everyone up on the Riverwalk and let them enter at this spot. Yes it is 0.2 miles long but the current would make up for it. You know it is long before you sign up. No surprises.

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

That seems like a great idea. That rowing center is right next to where the run course enters the river walk. You ought to reach out to Brian Myrick, the Race Director, with the idea. I would not mind at all doing a little extra swimming in that race to preserve the whole course.

Certainly Brian is following this thread. He is known as endurothonrd on this forum. He is/was the RD for Muncie 70.3 (formerly known as Muncie Endurothon) as well as the original RD for Raleigh 70.3 (i did that race 4x). Super cool dude...i talked to him in person at the banquet at IM Florida in 2013.

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

You ought to ping him. He hasn't logged on in over a month.

I would not mind at all doing a little extra swimming in that race to preserve the whole course. //

It is only added swimming if it results in longer times than normal in the water. Its possible to swim 2+ miles and be short for a 70.3 course. Sounds like they have plenty of room with the current to add a proper amount of distance, so that the pros are doing around 23+ at the front end, that is the real measure of a swim course that is moving..

I haven't made it through all the comments, but I will say thanks in advance for the feedback. Its never an easy decision to alter any part of the race. I thought I had this one. The fine folks at TVA did more than I asked for up at the dam, but we can't do anything about the creeks that dumped into the river once we lowered the water level. Mother nature wins. Im going to revisit a different start location for next year. If you think my math sucks for the IMChoo bike course, this might be another shining example of that...

Great having 3000 of you race with us in Chattanooga. Look forward to seeing some of you in Muncie in a month or so.

Brian

I raced but didn't see the pros tackle the upstream part. I didn't feel like the current was crazy but I obviously didn't get a chance to swim upstream so not really sure. Looking at the TVA website you can see where they slowed the discharge rate down a lot for the race. I'm just curious what criteria IM is using to determine it's unsafe for age groupers. Did the pros struggle that much during the upstream part? Doesn't sound like it.

The rowing center has been used for years as the start dock for the Chattanooga Waterfront Tri (Olympic distance), until this year the Waterfront Tri is starting from the Tennis Club's new dock. I would guess that the rowing center could be utilized for the 70.3 race. The participants for the olympic distance rode in a bus to the start of the swim. The UTC practice football field was used to stage the start.

Thanks Brian. Loved the race. 2nd time I've done it. Obviously disappointed not getting to do full 1.2 miles on the swim but didn't ruin my day. Glad you're looking at a different start location for next year.

Brian,

Just wanted to say thanks for the comments. It is great having you, Tom Z & others on the forum who can give us insights from the other side.

Alan

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Except it was a wetsuit swim. I watched them the men looked slow upstream, the women looked even slower. They started pulling the buoys a couple minutes after the pro women went off. I heard the pro men averaged more than 2 min/100 upstream. I’m a 2min/100scy swimmer and I averaged about 1:30/100 and that’s stopping and having to make right turns multiple times because people stopped right in front of me.

Brian, thanks for putting on such a great race. This was my third year in a row at the Chattanooga 70.3 and I will keep going back even though swimming is my strongest event and mother nature won 2 of the last 3 years because overall it's been a great experience despite my disappointment when the river doesn't cooperate.

Nope, water temp was 72.0 and it was a non-wetsuit swim for the pros.

Pros were non wetsuit. Here is my Garmin file. I know they aren't that accurate but looks like I was 1:48 on the upstream then 1:12 downstream. The current didn't feel that bad but it's all relative since we were all swimming in it.

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/...PKGLJ7FKFF6Y3LXA5D4A

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i swam in the river on Friday and on Sunday during the race. My fastest 500 yard free is ball park 4:35 (albeit 20 years ago) -- i'd consider myself a strong swimmer among triathletes. The current in the river on Friday would have been very dangerous for swimming for the masses. I swam the uphill portion of the swim when the current was high and it was tough and at one point i was not making progress at all in teh river until i moved location towards the shore. On sunday the current was much much slower. it did take some of the bragging rights out of the race for me (i'm squarely mid-pack overall) but i was ok with it. i do think though that the current really couldn't get much safer than Sunday, and that they should probably just either change the starting location to make an all down-hill swim, or just agree ahead of the time to shorten the swim so there isn't a bait and switch at the end.

This is what I have been trying to say this entire thread. I still see no valid reason that the swim was changed (other than to make it easy for the age-groupers).

sweet jesus, cue the "why is Chatty swim so looooong at 1.5 miles?????" complaints. At least it'll be downhill

Did your race in 2016, great venue (except for the car traffic ...)

If they had an existing swim entry point that would make it 1.5 miles I’d say do it. It’s already an easy swim with the current and typically wetsuit legal so that extra .3 miles wouldn’t mean much. But you’d have plenty of people just seeing 1.2 vs 1.5 and not sign up.

I know, kidding. 1.5 in that river would be faster than 1.2