Rotating paceline for the front half with a pack in the back. You can sit on the rotation or rest in the back. It's a fast paced ride and if you can't hack it in the back you get dropped and you try again next time. No bitching, no whining. If you try to screw up the rotation it'll either speed up or let you go depending on the mood of the day.

I can't stand riding with groups where it's all complaining.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8YQsuNcwE0

I don't go to "group rides". I find that most of the time they become oblivious to all other road users and end up acting like idiots.

Generally I just send out a text to all my teammates and other tri friends (I'm on a team of 10 guys - www.boulderracing.com) and just say, "hey, I'm doing 4 hours with 3x20 minute threshold, who wants to join?" Anyone who can make that work for their ride that day will show up. Sometimes it's just two of us. Sometimes its 5 of us. Rarely (never?) do I ride in groups larger than 5.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Depends on who and how many show up. Small good group will be working together. Big group will be aggressive trying to get down to a smaller group to work together. I’m there to get a workout and have no interest in sitting in a 15-20 person paceline waiting forever for my turn to pull.

The famous Wednesday ride down here would start with about 50 riders and for the first 10/15 miles pick up another 25 to 50. We would hit the first little 1 mile 6% climb and it was an all out attack to thin the herd into more manageable groups. IT was then like a bike race the rest of the way, with a full on sprint at the turnaround point.

There were pace lines formed, but they were brutal and meant to shake off more riders before the sprint, along with several attacks. After the sprint the small groups would regroup and slowly ramp up again, and then another intermediate sprint after 20 miles, and then a final one at the finish of the ride. It was a work out worth any 3 alone rides I ever did.

And it was always a mix of roadies and guys on tribikes, as long as you showed competence on whatever you were riding, there was not too much shit from roadies for being an a TT bike. Especially when they would be in the 2nd group watching you ride away in the lead!!!

We had a few more within a 50 mile radius like this on weekends, all turned into training races at some point. Swami's, Como Street, El Dorado park, and a couple I can't remember at the moment..

I don't ride much any more but really enjoyed the 5-6 person group. Large enough to work together effectively, small enough to be manageable and not deal with any bs.

I see the large groups riding around town and shake my head. Blowing through stop signs, half the group riding through red lights to catch up, forming impossibly long pacelines, some idiot breaking out from the middle, etc. Idiots.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

I don't mind at all, as long as they stay out of the aero bar. It isn't really the bike itself, as there are aero road bikes also, it's the position that matters most.

If you're leading, or forming a break, and you're in the aero bars........you're cheating the ride. Plain and simple. I road race and do time trial. The advantage at the speeds of an aggressive group ride is pretty ridiculous in the aero tuck. If you're on the bull bars, you're totally fine.

It's a tough call for me, the race sim stuff is a good workout and you learn skills, but I don't care for echeloning 10 guys across a country road with traffic out and about. Then you get the guy or two off the front who worked hard to get there taking stupid chances at stop signs and shit so they can hold their gaps.

I really like the concept of announcing ahead safer segments to battle out on. Then staying together from point A to B and B to C. But from C to D, have at it. Then when D ends, back off and have the whole group re-form.

My go-to ride is a relaxed 4-hour (ish) affair, but it is pre defined as either B+ or A- level so people know the pace we intend. 10-20 riders. Generally we just stick together most of the ride, whoever wants to pull at the front can, no shame in sitting in the entire ride. If it ever starts getting too fast for people at the back they yell up to the front to cool it a bit. If there are good climbs along the route, everybody goes at the pace they want and we regroup at the top. If I hammer the climb I might have to wait for 5 minutes, or I could go slower and wait less, or even ride back down a little after the summit and climb some more. Nobody gets upset, and I can't see why anyone would care. It's not like they can really draft up the climb anyway.

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Powertap / Cycleops / Saris

I should have given that detail. Our normal Saturday route is 3 segments. Regroup at gas station after 1st and 2nd segment (~20 miles each). Each segment starts out pretty chill and then there are established points where it ramps up. As well as sprint points at the end of each segment.

This.

Our TNW and Saturday rides typically have a slow rollout of 40-100 guys, and then on some select point its essentially a race. Other group rides typically have a moderate rollout to a 30-60 minute climb, than once we hit the climb its essentially a race and we all meet at the top.

but I don't care for echeloning 10 guys across a country road with traffic out and about. //

Ya traffic is a concern, but our Wednesday ride is tame until we get onto the base at camp pendelton. Then it exits onto a sort of bike path through a huge long campground, so almost no cars ever there in the mornings. So we have about as clear a road as you would in a race, so we can do more race stuff.


And I never heard that term, cheating the ride. I mean it is a workout after all, so if you speed things up by pulling in the aero position, aren't you actually spicing up the ride? Guys dont have to pull in breaks, or if you are strong enough, pull for minutes if you want, it is a workout and each can get what they want out of it. For me it was a race within a workout, so made sure I didn't do anything stupid and get dropped, and participated I the final sprints if I couldn't get a lone breakaway beforehand.

We have a standard Wednesday ride with two groups: One that will keep together for the first part of the ride and rejoin after drilling some hills early, then will shed on hills and town sprints on the back 1/4 of the ride. It is understood that you might get dropped at the end. The second still pushes the pace on segments and hills yet we all try to finish together. Slightly more relaxed but those feeling strong on the day do the majority of pulls.

Thursday rides reflect the Wednesday relaxed group: 20-30 riders, regroup after hills, start and finish together.

Weekend rides are smaller and the group is notified if there are efforts or intervals during the ride. Join or do your own ride.

I've lot lots of options and generally only bike with better bike handlers.

monty wrote:

Ya traffic is a concern, but our Wednesday ride is tame until we get onto the base at camp pendelton. Then it exits onto a sort of bike path through a huge long campground, so almost no cars ever there in the mornings. So we have about as clear a road as you would in a race, so we can do more race stuff.


And I never heard that term, cheating the ride. I mean it is a workout after all, so if you speed things up by pulling in the aero position, aren't you actually spicing up the ride? Guys dont have to pull in breaks, or if you are strong enough, pull for minutes if you want, it is a workout and each can get what they want out of it. For me it was a race within a workout, so made sure I didn't do anything stupid and get dropped, and participated I the final sprints if I couldn't get a lone breakaway beforehand.

Same ... we occasionally get guys on TT bikes at the race rides. If anything, they make it faster and harder forcing the rest of us work harder or helps shed those just sitting on.

Cheating the ride was a little too strong I guess.


It's not that big a deal. I'd much rather them come out than not come out if that's the only thing. Cause at the end of the day it makes me faster and we have someone else to share a beer with at the end.

You guys made a good point I hadn't thought of before!

With them there, there's things that happen that might not otherwise meaning more interesting scenarios to learn and work through that may help come race day.

I mean, what you said is actually a great idea. A group might not have 3 guys who together could get away enough to have the group play "chase". But if you had a TT bike in the group, that could help the group stay away enough to make it interesting.

For me, it varies by ride. I have 3 regular group rides in my immediate area and while there is substantial overlap in the people riding on each, each ride has a very distinct personality. The pointy end of the Tuesday ride is an all out hammerfest, wait for no one, first one back to the parking lot wins. It's basically a 35 mile road race on open roads (hence I've quit doing the racy version of this ride as I don't want to die just yet). The Thursday ride is much more mellow with 2 full on re groups and only certain spots where we go all out. The fast guys who hammered on Tuesday or raced on Wednesday often use it as a recovery ride so it allows a nice mix of people to ride together. The Saturday ride is a longer hammer fest but the group stays together and works together although there are 2 sections, where the gloves come off and we race but regroup after. Any other time outside the 2 racy parts, you can go hard if you want to pull but it is considered extremely bad form to break away or otherwise shatter the group.

My summer Saturday morning group is about 20 middle-aged guys who are in fairly good condition. One big guy with huge legs acts like the leader of the peloton (like a yellow jersey multi-year winner of the Tour de France who can dictate how to ride goes). He always leads the pace line and never drops to the back. At every small hill (SW MI), he attacks and sprints up the hill, then coasts down the back to wait for everyone else. Sometimes someone will challenge him, but he always hits the top of the hill first. This causes the rest of the group to go fast uphill then coast downhill.

In contrast, as a triathlete who races trying to keep even power, I tend to go slow uphill and pedal fast downhill. Overall, I think it's a good race strategy.

So, last summer I tried to change the behavior of the group. My thinking was that the peloton leader had good sprint capabilities but not good tempo aerobic capacity. I started challenging him on the uphills, but then kept going fast on the downhills in hopes that he would wear out after a few hills and would stop sprinting. I could beat him 95% of the time (which is funny because I have skinny little legs). He would be up front, start to take off at the bottom of a hill, I would chase from the middle of the pack, and the rest of the group would be rooting for the big guy. "Watch out! He's coming for you!"

The result was that he never gave up attacking, I kept beating him, and the group would get spread out until the next re-group intersection. I'm not sure what my plans are for this year. Maybe I'll just sit in and let him have his sprinting fun. In any case, it's a good workout even though it doesn't match my race strategy.

You have to be careful about messing with the culture of a group ride ;-)

We had a local ride that had a self designated leader. He ran the show like a drill Sargent, had the ride doing rotating pace lines, etc and except for a few designed sections, you were not to pass him. This generally worked because there was, admittedly, some valuable skills to learn riding that way and there were two other rides that night in the area and those who were not up for the rules just did not do the ride.

Then one summer the leader got injured and did not do the ride for the whole summer. It was crazy. What had been the most disciplined group ride on the planet turned into Lord of the Flies once the leader was gone. Anyone else who tried to step up and take the lead got shot down. It went from highly disciplined to the law of the jungle by the end of the summer! Unfortunately, while the group was fairly fit and experts in taking turns in organized rotating pace lines, they were totally unschooled in how to street race like the faster dudes on the A ride. Most of those guys had actual race experience plus they knew when they could get away with running a red light or how to cut in and grab a wheel, or how to protect their front wheels from someone else cutting in, or how to bump shoulders at speed and laugh about it, etc. But the pace lining robots had never learned those dark art skills. So it got incredibly unsafe and scary. The leader came back the next summer but could not regain control. He had to start a totally new ride with new riders who had never experienced freedom . . .

Why doesn't this board have the little emojis like thumbs up or beer when you need it. It isn't necessarily just a tri thing. You have to know how to wear down the other guy.

Since I'm in that smaller percentile, I pay attention to the gradient.

My favorite is to hit the hill and wait for that tell tale "click click" to an easier gear. Then step on it without changing gear. Or if they change two, you just change one.

Different regions have different strengths of their A groups. Our A group is probably a B group in Colorado or California. The B group would probably be a D.

In our groups, most guys in A group can't hold 600w+ for more than maybe 20 seconds or so. If there's a steeper short hill, I'll throw some wattage at it and utilize my weight advantage.

If you can do it twice within a couple minutes, you might be able to blow the group up.

I feel that's the difference between an A group and a race sim group. The recoverable nature of hard attacks, and how long and hard some of the aerobic efforts are in a race sim group can be unreal.

I may get flamed for this, knowing this is a triathlon forum and this subject is probably frequently discussed, but: while steady power output is a good way to race a triathlon, I would think that a group (roadie) ride is not the time or place for that. In a group ride, wouldn't it be ideal to increase power as the group speeds up or climbs, and then rest as they rest? With the idea that the peak power surges will ultimately allow you a higher steady power when you do those types of rides, whether in training or racing?

When I moved to Columbus OH from Northeast OH a few years ago, it was group ride culture shock.

NE Ohio has plenty of 1-5 minute hills, some that are 10%+. Group rides, especially ones less than 3 hours, are smash fests with lots of attacks and are relatively close to a road race simulation, only with maybe less long-term breakaway attempts. Usually 5-10 riders.

Columbus area is flat-ish and can be under 1000 ft of climbing for a 50 mile ride. Weeknight and weekend A rides are always a tight paceline. A rides start with 10-25 riders and become 8-12 after the first hour.

Neither of them is extremely enjoyable to me, so I insert them as needed for training (cat 2 roadie) and otherwise train alone. Oh, and driving 60 minutes in rush hour traffic when I could spend those minutes riding is a big downside as well.

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-Physiojoe
Instagram: @thephysiojoe
Cycling coach, Elite racer on Wooster Bikewerks p/b Wootown Bagels

I agree with you. I don't really expect a group ride to be steady-state, and power change ups are the main fun of a group ride. But I think my group takes uphill increased power too far. I've never been in a group that sprints up every hill. My attempt to shut it down a little didn't work and probably added to the behavior. I'll probably just chill a little this year and go with the flow.

Iowa City
College Green Park T/T
Also called the "A" ride sometimes.
Starts spring daylight saving
Turns to gravel after memorial day
Ends fall daylight saving
10-25 guys depending on the night.
No real leader.
Some sprints are stop ahead signs. Some are town line
No complaining. Unless two badasses show up on a tandem

It's all people who race crits. And it feels like a crit on the roads for a good chunk of it. Long flat sections will get a good, fast rotating pace line. Any features get used to create separations -- crosswinds, hills, tighter corners.

Lots of fast guys who can make it hard when they want. Former Canadian TT champ. Vuelta stage winner. Good young guys who are successfully racing midwest or national P/1/2. Some team tactics between the 2-3 legit teams.

I'm an OK cat 2 crit racer and get dropped about 10-20% of the time, depending on my fitness. Avg power is never all that high, but NP always seems to be close to what I think my FTP is.

It's a great ride for someone who crit races to drop in on because it feels familiar and there aren't many other weird, idiosyncratic parts. Generally welcoming to other racers. Maybe less so for folks who don't race.

It's fun

Andy

Our 'high performance' training squad ranges from folks who win their age group locally, to the 2nd-place Canadian female at the Boston marathon, and a guy who rode 500km through Germany in 26hrs. As a training ride for a 1000k ride he's doing this summer. So pretty wide variety.

We typically have a set workout that uses landmarks along the route or timed intervals (2min, 3 min, whatever)... and we do a few out-and-back repeats in a given session. So folks end up spread out doing their thing, we cross paths frequently since it's a repeated out-and-back, and we meet at an agreed-on time back at the parking lot. So one person might get an extra repeat in there, while someone slower will cut it slightly short to meet back at the cars for the brick run.