Hello,

The first step is why you want custom. As I see it there are three good reasons.

A) You have a unusual body dimensions and wont properly fit a stock frame

B) You are a highly experienced bike junkie (owned lots of bikes) and want something special (an aero tubed, aluminum frame with internal cables and colnago geometry)

C) You want something artistic

If you don't fit any of these categories stick to stock.

I would agree with Smtyrrell99. Custom is great if you know exactly what you want. Otherwise it can be a big waste of time and money and you will be left with a bike with poor resale value.

Cost is usually not a problem. Most framebuilders can build you a custom steel or aluminum frame for about $1,000 which is about what a Felt S series or Cervelo P2K frame will cost you. Timing is an issue though. Most custom frames take a good 2-4 months. Some are even longer. If you want titanium, I would stick to the big guys - Litespeed and Seven - and be prepared to open your wallet REALLY wide.

Generally, if you have to "ask", you are not a good candidate for a custom frame.

In my opinion custom frame geometry is not the "ultimate" or the best way to buy a bike. It is a last resort when your body dimension or other positional requirements (i.e. injuries)are so severe nothing in a stock manufacturer's geometry will fit you.

Remember when you buy custom geometry you are buying a one-off, and you are the first and only test pilot for that bike. Of course it will work, but how well will it work? Some custom builders will beuild darn near anything that the wheels still spin on. That is bad news. You get some very strange configurations that don't interact with the road well. And, there is no way to tell how they will interact with the road until that bike is built and you throw a leg over it.

Additionally, the prices of customs tend to be somewhat out of range with stock frames. If you shop carefully with a good set of body measurements you can get a high quality frame that fits you precisely and is at a fair price.

You tend to pay a premium for custom, and in many brands I don't see a commensurate level of workmanship. Some custom brands are all sizzle and very little steak.

I have owned five custom geometry frames in my life. I'll never own another.

Good luck in your search and have a safe, Happy New Year!

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Thanks Guys,

Your comments are helpful. I am pretty average - at least in body type. Have no unusual issues. I was asked by my employer/boss/friend, who is very supportive of my tri activities, what tri "toy" would I like to have. We talked about them buying my ultimate bike as kind of a bonus for a recent big win - my wife was thinking more like a new kitchen, though.

Thought shortly about going custom and building it up with specific components. My inclination, confirmed here, is to stick with stock (P2K, P3, or S32) - maybe just the frame and build it up from there. I already have a trusted stell frame that I love for training. So this would be just a pure "joy machine". My travels often take me to Ann Arbor. Does anyone know of a good tri specific bike shop in Michigan that handles Cervelo and Felt? Just kidding Tom. Maybe I'll stop over to see you one of these days. Most likely, I'll be looking at cabinets and new countertops, though. Wish me luck.

Steve

Earlier this year I went through the process of buying a new bike. My requirements were pretty simple, I wanted one bike that I could use for road riding, as well as long course triathlons. Basically, this meant getting a road bike, but I wanted to be stable in the aero bars as well.

I went to a FIST certified shop in my area and had my measurements taken. He pointed out that my body proportions were not standard for the industry. My legs wanted a 57, and by torso wanted a 55. He recommended the 55 Talon for me, fitted it up for me, raised the seat the appropriate height and turned me loose on a 30 minute test ride. The ride quality was fine, but the handling was fine, too. This was perilously close to being my new ride.

My budget was enough to allow for the Talon SL, which retails for around $1900. Before I slapped down the $$, I decided to look at my other options in that price range. The Tri shop also carried Calfee bikes, which he said would fit without a problem, since it would be a custom build. I also looked at the Bianchi carbon, the Giant Composite, The Cervelo team soloist (the tri shop carried them, but said they were sold out until 2004),and finally the Yaqui DL. The price on all of these was within a few hundred dollard of each other.

I called Yaqui, and they had me fill out the online measurements form. Within 24 hours, Ves e-mailed me and told me that I had a couple options, my legs wanted a 57, and my upper body wanted a 55 (this sounded familiar...). He could set me up on a 55 with a long seat post and some spacers under the stem, or I could go custom, which would give me the proper stack and seat tube height, combined with the appropriate top tube length. The custom build was a $200 upcharge, but to me, it seemed worth it to get the right bike.

I put down a deposit - $200 - and Ves went to work on designing the bike. We discussed handling of the bike, fork rake, head tube angles, etc. Finally, he sent the CAD drawing to me, I approved, and he started building it. Three weeks later, the frame arrived, fully prepped for me to begin installing my components.

The finish quality was great, the welds looked good, but I am no expert on welds. The best part, though, was the ride. Yeah, this was an aluminum bike, but Scandium, so the feel was a bit different. It rides as smoothly as the Talon, and much smoother than my Bianchi SL. Could be the frame, could be the forks (reynolds ouzo pro), or the bars/stem (Syntace). In any event, it is a great ride. The most suprising thing about the bike is how well it handles in the clip-ons compared to my other bike. can stay in them for days.

The most suprising thing about the bike was the price. For what you get, this is a very affordable bike. $1800 and change for a custom frame with the best fork in the industry. Customer service is great, as is post-sales support. Sure, the resale value may be low, but why would I ever sell such a versatile bike?

I have gotten e-mails from people asking about the buying process, the fit, etc. I tell them all the same thing. Yeah, I was nervous getting a custom bike online, but Ves has a great reputation, the other customers on this site seem very pleased with their bikes, and when Slowman passed me on Nasty Grade at Wildflower - in his aero bars when everyone else was on their hoods, he was riding a Yaqui. I was not disappointed, and I think buying this bike was the best move I could have made to improve my overall bike performance. It makes me want to ride.

Someday, when I am within a hair's breath of qualifying for Kona, I am going to visit Ves again for a steep angled tri bike. Until then, I couldn't be happier with the bike I am riding.

Picture of it is here: http://homepage.mac.com/johna/triathlon/P1010025.jpg

Let me guess, Tom thinks a Cervelo fame will fit everyone.

After years of riding a C'dale, I tried a Cervelo P2K, and then a litespeed - guess what none of them fit. Finally went with a custom Elite Razor and it was the best move I made - I now have a bike that is comfortable and I can ride significantly faster on.

i went with a custom b/c I can't find a 54cm top tube with a 58 cm seat tube. Sure I can jack the seatpost way way out of the frame and do on my road bike. 10 in of seatpost. The cost was the same as a stock p2k frameset.
I waited about 16 weeks for mine when I was told 6-8 weeks. I built it around my old TT frame dimensions but now no extra long seatpost and no super short stem. No compromises.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I agree with your experience with Ves at Yaqui. At this stage, he is the only place I refer customers for custom geometry. I refered a woman there yesterday for whom custom may be a viable option.

I've owned and ridden Ves' bikes. He does a better job with custom than anybody I've worked with.

Yaquis are excellent bikes. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I want another one...

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Hmmm, oops you guessed wrong. Not only do they not, but I also never said that. Now, don't you feel silly.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Tom, I apologize if I offended you. I think I was just venting my frustration of having walked in many a bike shop and had them try to get me to buy any stock tri bike they have on the floor. My point was that custom bikes are a good alternative if bikes of similar cost, material, and build are unable to fit your body geometry. Many times this isn't pointed out in order to get you to take a bike off the floor, then you wind up with all sorts of weird seatpost, stem, handlebar, aerobar configurations trying to get it right. There are several good custom bike builders out there.

Have a great new year.

Oh, no worries HomerJSimpson, I'm a cranky man. And your point is well conceived.

I think some of what you (correctly) observed- when bike shops try to broom inventory off the floor, may be a result of a lot of stores trying to enter the triathlon market without fully understanding it. They see the dollars dangling out there and are attracted to the tri market, especially since some other (previously prosperous) segments of the market have been flat.

Lew Kidder recently said something to me I thought was wise: "You don't date the triathlon market, you marry it." I agree with that. It is pretty obvious when a dealer is courting to triathlon to "see how it goes" or whether they are (and have been) in it for the long haul.

A few years ago Quintana Roo ran some ads in industry only publicatons that extolled the virtues of selling triathlon bikes. The idea was to attract more QR dealers. It was a well conceived ad by QR (or their agency). It basically said: "Dealers, wake up, triathletes are spending money while you are struggling to sell BMX and MTBs". The ad worked. A lot of dealers decided to "try the triathlon market". Many of them became QR dealers. Many of them advertised "bike fitting". Some of them may have even sent a staff member to a triathlon to stumble through it to say they "have a triathlete on staff". Those are likely to be the dealers desperate to get bikes off their floor.

I think the mark of a good, reputable dealer is one who may have good inventory in the key bikes, but is still honorable enough to direct the person to something they either may not carry or don't have in stock. That probably describes 1 out of 3 people who come through our door for a fitting.

The flip side of this is the person who comes through the door and says, "I want a Triguy Superkona bike, that;s what everbody is riding..." We have every size of Triguy Superkonas in stock but when we measure the guy we find the top tube length doesn't really match his torso length as well as, say, a Biketri Megadistance XL505. I tell the guy, "Well, Sir, the Triguy Superkona is a fine bike as we both know, but allow me to suggest that you may be better suited to the Biketri Megadistance XL505..." Usually n a situation like this the guy will say, "Ahh, I want a Triguy Superkona anyway." If we refuse to sell it to the guy two things happen: 1. We have trouble paying bills. 2. He leaves the store and tells people we are arrogant (I am), don't listen to our customers (we do, sometimes they just don't listen to us), or we wouldn't give him what he wanted.

Once we give people fair warning, they are the subject of their own judgement. At some point, we have "knock 'em where they lean."

Happy New Year!

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

John,

Thanks. That's a great description of the process you went through. I'm also a tough fit, with lots of leg length, much of it from the knee down. I recently enjoyed about an hour with Ves at his shop. He is not only professional, but also very nice. I was there with a friend who wanted to talk about a tri bike, but Ves also took the time to answer my questions as well. It was refreshing to get the opions of somebody other than the Gen-Xer on the sales floor of Mega LBS, namely Ves.

Incidentally, he suggested his DL geometry for me, which in not unlike what I have currently replicated on my road bike. That said, your bike looks much the same. Care to tell us (me) more about it's geometry? OBTW, the Campy looks great--not enough Campy folks in this sport.

Scott

The geometry is pretty slack by Slowtwitch standards, but perfect if you are looking for a Draft Legal bike. Seat tube is 74.5 - similar to the Hed that people have been discussing, I suppose. I ride with a set-back carbon seat post, so I am actually at 73 degrees. Ves recommended the proper seat height and location in relation to the bars, and included this in the CAD drawing.

To play Devil's Advocate, I tossed out Ves' recommendation for saddle location and put my seat as far forward on the rails as it would go, then adjusted the seat height, etc. After 65 miles in this position, my glutes were killing me. I did a short run after the ride and couldn't pull much better than an 8:30 pace without my HR exploding. The next week I put the saddle back where Ves recommended, did 73 miles with no glute pain at all - everything just fell in to place. I did a short run afterwards and was able to hold a 7:30 - 7:40 pace with my HR at the top of zone 2/bottom of zone 3. This is pretty good for me, since I am a pretty slow runner compared to my peers.

Another interesting thing about the DL geometry is the front end. I don't know what he does, other than the 45mm rake fork, but the bike handles really well in the aero bars. Maybe it's the HT angle, maybe the stem length, maybe the perfect fit, I don't know, but it tracks really well. I ride with Syntace C2's cut an inch short. I can get a ton of leverage off them and put down some decent speed without the front end wanting to move right and left with each pedal stroke. I suppose I could put some Hed one-piece TT bars on it if I wanted to make the bike more aero (reduced frontal area) for long distances, but I doubt I ever will.

Finally, since it is a road bike by design, it climbs and descends really well. My old bike, which was didn't fit me well, used to scare the piss out of me going down hill. It would shimmy at anything approaching 35 Mph. I have yet to shimmy on this bike, and I have passed 40 more than a couple times now. Technical descents are a breeze, too. It is not as quick as my Bianchi SL, which makes the steering a bit more predictable.

As far as the rest of the geometry goes, the ST height is 57cm, and the TT is a little over 55cm. The HT height is also higher than on the stock 55cm by a centimeter and chance so it would work with the 57cm seat tube. It is vastly different from my Bianchi, which had a 57.5cm top tube that I shrank with a zero setback post and a 110mm stem.

The campy grouppo is awesome - though I am going to the FSA Compact cranks in January - more to make my life easier in the hills than anything else.

I had Litespeed build my Blade.......They were GREAT! It is made to my specs including the tube selections and angles.....

It was about $500.00 more than retail.

Sam

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I shall never misuse Rex Kwon Do
I shall be a champion of freedom and justice