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Wetsuit wars part 2: The tale of the three suits.
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I took three different wetsuits to the water's edge in Taupo and swam in each of them to determine which one I liked best.

First, the disclaimers and disclosures:

I am a retailer who sells Quintana Roo, Desoto T1 and Orca brand wetsuits. As such, I profit from the sale of any of these suits in my store. The suits I tried I received either free or at a significant discount from their manufacturers.

I am, at best, a middle of the pack age group swimmer with little formal swim training beyond the resources available in the triathlon coaching world. I have never been a collegiate swimmer and am not a good competitive swimmer.

Please remember this is only my OPINION. It is not an empiracle test. I think it is a reasonably informed OPINION though.

So,

Going to Taupo my absolute favorite suit is the Desoto T1 because it is so easy to swim in for me.

I used my Quintana Roo Superfull at Alcatraz a couple years ago. The suit is 2 years old and has a few races on it.

I had never used the Orca P-Flex suit before I arrived in Taupo.

The conditions in Taupo were unique IMO because the water was not just cold, it was extremely cold. Wetsuits were required by the race organizers for competitiors. It was a rule, you HAD to wear one. I do not know the water temperature in fahrenheit, did know it in celsius but forgot (16?)it exactly.

After my first swim in Lake Taupo my standards for what constituted the "best wetsuit" changed. The best wetsuit became the warmest wetsuit in Taupo. The water was so cold I was actually a little worried. It made me dizzy when I stood up- I solved that problem with ear plugs. Those were essential.

Anyway.

The T1 swam great as usual. It IS and remains my suit of choice for short, fast swims. But it was not warm enough for Taupo for me. It is a racing suit- the fastest available I believe- for moderate water temperatures. It's primary function is speed I think. Insulation is a secondary function in my opinion. So I did not use the T1 in Taupo even though I thought I would when I got there and I wanted to.

The QR Superfull has always been an excellent suit. I have not tried the new Aquaman Metal Cell that Dan spoke highly of, so I can't compare it to that. However, I think the QR is the most flexible, easiest swimming one piece suit I have ever worn. I also used the previous high end Aquaman (what was that called?) and I liked it. The reason I didn't use my QR was because it wasn't much warmer than the T1 and even though the Superfull is a nice suit and I have raced in it (at Alcatraz among others) I am convert to a two piece suit (the T1) in moderate water temps.

The Orca P-Flex looked like a simple, basic suit. However, it uses a non-absorbant lining fabric (like the Metal Cell?)and that made the suit more bouyant and A LOT warmer. Hands down, the P-Flex was the warmest suit I tried in Taupo. It was not the most flexible suit, but in fairness I raced in a suit that had only 4 swims on it. Nick of Orca NZ explained to me that the suit will become more flexible with about 5-10 swims. It did become more flexible after just 4 swims. A size 6 Orca P-Flex was a perfect, perfect fit for my body. Like a tight glove. The Orca suit is a stiff swimming suit below your chest. The suit has flexibility where you need it, in the shoulders and back, but is pretty stiff where you don't need the flexibility. The suit did take a couple swims to get used to , but after those two swims I was like "This is IT!!! I am racing in this suit." I stayed totally comfortable in my P-Flex. I got it in on perfectly at the race start (ironically, with the assistance of the Ironman wetsuit guys!) and it felt great in the water. I do love that suit. I should add the neck was the best neck of any wetsuit I have tried.

Of the one piece suits I've worn the Orca P-Flex has been the best to date. It is simply the next level of evolution in one piece suits.

This year when the water is cold at races I will be in my P-Flex. If it is warmer I will be in my T1.

In my opinion Quintana Roo needs to do some catching up. The last really significant advancement in wetsuits was the development of the 2 piece by Desoto T1. They didn;t latch onto that trend. Ironman did briefly. QR has updated the look of some of their suits for '04 but I don;t see conspicuous technical features and benefits different from last year that I can tell a customer about. They are still good suits, but they are the same good suits as two years ago. Orca and T1 both have new things to talk about in '04.

We still sell QR becasue customers recognize the brand and ask for it- that goes back to threads we've been working on on this forum about giving the customer what they ask for...That's important. But when they say, "What about these Orcas?" we can say- "Well, they have this and that feature and benefit new for '04....." That has selling power. QR is missing that right now in my opinion.

Now, unfortunately, I did not try an Ironman suit even though the Ironman people were there every day demoing suits right at the water's edge. Why? Well, to be totally honest, right now I don't sell Ironman brand wetsuits, and I am not interested in taking on a new line of wetsuits- we have at least three already, really four since we still sell Aquaman too. That is probably too too many. Left up to me (and not my customers) I woud only sell two brands: DeSoto T1 and Orca. Those brands compliment each other on the sales floor and both offer a tangible "story" of features and benefits to demonstrate to the customer.

If you are near an Ironman wetsuit dealer I suggest you try their suits before making your decision. They are fine suits, on par with each of the others and better than some.

In the end, I picked the Orca P-Flex becasue it was the warmest suit I tried, swam very well, and because I have a vested business interest in wearing a suit brand I sell, AND selling a brand I wear.

Before I sell a suit, first I have BUY a suit. So I only sell suits I would buy, or can easily sell.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Wetsuit wars part 2: The tale of the three suits. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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Tom, was the QR suit was a 2004 model? I thought the high-end Orca, Aquaman, and QR suits all used the same SCS-Metal rubber and therefore would be similar in regards to warmth.

_______________________________________________
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Re: Wetsuit wars part 2: The tale of the three suits. [jhc] [ In reply to ]
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No, the QR I used was a two year old model I got from Karen Sing formerly of Quintana Roo.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Wetsuit wars part 2: The tale of the three suits. [jhc] [ In reply to ]
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I am very happy with my new de soto t1 but have not yet used it in a race. I was wondering how TD or other T1 users approach T1 transition in a race wearing a T1. I imagine the fastest transition strategy would be to not do anything right out of the water except to take off cap and goggles and run to the bike and then at the bike remove both T1 top and bottom. Or do people take the top off immediately upon standing up on the shore? Maybe easier this way with a wetter suit but then you have to carry it to the bike... Not a whole lot at stake either way but every second counts, right? (although I have a recurring nightmare that I'll be unable to do the nifty arm-crossed-pull-over-head move like emilio and instead find myself writhing on the ground like a crazy nut in a straight jacket!!)
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Re: Wetsuit wars part 2: The tale of the three suits. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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Tom if you could answer a question please. Need some advice. I live in Montana. There are no places here to buy Tri wetsuit. For my first IM I rented one,this year I need to buy one. Would it be wise at all to wait to purchase my wetsuit till I arrive at CDA for my next IM?This way I could try a few out ect..?Are all the retailers well supplied? Are all the major players there? I have been leaning towards the T1. I just would not want to get there and find out I could not buy one. As far as swimming in it before the race,for my first IM,it was the first time in a wetsuit and had no problem,besides I am land locked..

Thanks in advance Kenney. By the way I have been following the advice you gave for the Ultra I have planned. Thanks
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Re: Wetsuit wars part 2: The tale of the three suits. [johnthesavage] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah those were my thoughts exactly. I take the top off when I reach knee deep water and it comes right off. As Im running to my bike the shoulder straps of the bibjohn are off then the same as usual. Later last season I purchased the vest top and they are sized a little smaller and the race really didnt have knee deep water so I waited until I got into the transition area and it took me a couple of times because I was tired. I started laughing at myself because those thoughts went through my head but I did get it off.
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Re: Wetsuit wars part 2: The tale of the three suits. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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Also Tom...........If I go with the T1,how do I contact your store. If I buy one I would perfer to give you the business than just some internet co. Thanks..........
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Quintana Roo suits. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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By the way, Quintana Roo has made quite a bit of advances in terms of wetsuit technology for 2004. Most athletes who have tried these new suits are really raving about the speed and flexibility of them.

The torso of the 2004 Supersuit features SCS Nanoskin, the underwater coefficient of dynamic friction of which is 0.026 in comparison to 4.0 of regular neoprene. Less friction = more speed.

The Supersuit also features SCS Sharkskin on the inside of the forearm which allows the user to push more water.

Plus of course it is hand-crafted in San Marcos, CA right here in the USA.

Hope this finds everybody well.
Herbert
QR marketing
Last edited by: Herbert: Mar 10, 04 14:23
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Re: Wetsuit wars part 2: The tale of the three suits. [johnthesavage] [ In reply to ]
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Pop the top immediately upon exiting the water. Some people do it as they run out of the water, but I'd probably fall down if I tried that ;)

The bibjohn can wait 'till you're in T1.


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Re: Wetsuit wars part 2: The tale of the three suits. [Khai] [ In reply to ]
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OK thanks - so thats 2-0 in favor of popping the top immediately upon exiting the water and then running with top in hand to bike. My only question is this: what do you do about cap and goggles? Do you take them off first and then hold them in one hand while doing the pop-off maneuver? or do you just whip the top off and that rips the goggles and cap off with it? Maybe silly for me to worry about it but hey, this could mean the difference for me at Ralphs between 162nd and 163rd. Every second counts!!!
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Re: Wetsuit wars part 2: The tale of the three suits. [johnthesavage] [ In reply to ]
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I hope my T1 doesn't pop off my goggles, because their corrective. I might not find my bike.

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Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
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Re: Wetsuit wars part 2: The tale of the three suits. [docfuel] [ In reply to ]
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16 degrees Celsius = 60.8 degrees Fahrenheit
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Re: Wetsuit wars part 2: The tale of the three suits. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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I recently bought a wetsuit and also tried 2004 versions of the three suits you discussed so I thought I'd add my feedback.

The T1 just didn't work for me. I couldn't find a top size that fit me correctly. I also had real trouble getting it off even after much advice and help from the staff.

I really wanted the QR. To me, it seemed like the highest quality suit by far. Plus QR customer service has been good too me in the past. The shoulders were much more flexible than any other suit I've tried. I also liked the SCS sharkskin inside the forearm. I really wanted one. Unfortunately none of the Superfull's fit me just right. Just too much bunching up in certain areas.

I agree w/ you. I didn't think much of the Pflex upon inspection. I seemed like a very basic suit. I wound up going w/ it because it fit me like a glove. Almost too tight, I was afraid. The shoulders were not very flexible. Swimming in it was a different story, though. Enough shoulder flexibility and SUPER warm. I really have problems with getting cold while swimming so this is a plus for me. I also noticed that very little water gets in the suit. Much less than in my old Superfull(granted it was an older model, 2000 I think).

One other thing I noticed: the Pflex has reinforcement every place that 2 or more seams meet as well as where the seams meet at the end of the sleeves and legs. They add a neoprene patch in these areas as a preventative measure. I think this is a great idea as I've had seams rip in these areas in the past.

Bottom line: You've got to try them out yourself.
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Re: Wetsuit wars part 2: The tale of the three suits. [johnthesavage] [ In reply to ]
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EASE of removal for the T1 has always been one of it's lackings (if not the only thing). Other than that fault, it's a great wetsuit... specially for long courses.

I just ordered a zippered T1 for that reason... will compare it flexibiliy, comfort vs. ease and speed of removal soon.

My technique for removal is a bit unorthodox... it works (for me) but it's not fast. I pull the bottom part of the top and dip into the water in order to get a pocket of water/air between my body and the rubber. Then, (this is where I differ from most common ways to remove) I get the wetsuit rolled up as close to "under my armpits"... then (luckily, I have the flexibility) I reach over one shoulder and grap the back bottom of the rolled top and pull it over my head. It's tough, but works... I have try the "typical" way and I just can't do it. BTW, a lot of BodyGlide help a lot. And BTW, have managed to learn how to get the top off without having to remove my presciption goggles and swim cap first.

My method is not fast... but since I only use it for long course triathlons, speed of removal is not much of an issue.

That being said... You could just buy a Piel Wetsuit and Pull on the top zippers as you exit and run to your bike.... That's it - Period. It falls off as you run to your bike. The biggest problem is getting around everyone exiting the water without hitting them with the wetsuit swung over your shoulder. For that reason, I use it exclusively for short course triathlons.

As for the Orca... the last one I tried some years ago (according to Tom, they seem to have made some good changes)... however, the fit just wasn't as good as a QR... but, when the T1 showed up with it's 2 piece design.. The fit and feel was the best... now, if the zipper takes care of ease of removal for the top.... It will become my suit of choice for Olympic distance. I will keep using the Piel for sprint distances. Whether I switch to the zipper version T1 for long course is still undecided.

Bottom line... T1 for Long Course tris ... and (maybe), T1 with zipper for Oly distance tris... and, the Piel for short courses (not as comfortable as the T1 but much faster and easier to remove).

FWIW Joe Moya
Last edited by: Joe M: Mar 10, 04 21:21
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