You can start by not being such a douchebag to everyone

I do agree that the entry fees especially IM are pretty ridiculous! I hate to see the declining numbers. As far as the high priced bikes are concerned, I have to disagree, to a small extent you can buy speed but it's still the engine that makes the biggest difference. I love passing the over 10k bikes on my 6yr old P2, it adds to the enjoyment. Would I like to have a new Diamondback or the new P5 with all the best of everything, heck yeah, but it doesn't make sense to me to dump that kind of cash especially for the minimal gains I could expect. I started into this sport on a used roadie around plenty of nice bikes and I switched to my current bike shortly after and I can't say that I truly have been beaten by another bike since, it's always been the engine.

A bike like this got you a sub 8 at Roth in 1996:



Sure it was the peak of the EPO era, but let's call it an 8:20 if you want.....You could take that bike out today (you can get it or equivalent for probably $200) and still Kona qualify in any field. Just clean up the wiring, put a fast set of 6 year old wheels on it from Ebay for $400, an aero helmet off eBay for $50, maybe some new brakes and brake hoods for $50

As for thread count on ST, well in 2006 there was no real custom communities that each user can create on facebook, so if you add facebook triathlon threads and ST threads today, we're likely way ahead in terms of online tri traffic.

That might be your view. It is not mine.

From my point of view, results are the only thing that matters. This sport is dominated by the fast athletes, not by whoever spent the most money on equipment. Maybe they were star HS swimmers or track runners. I came from cycling and didn't even learn crawl or ran consistently until I was 32. I will never KQ.

Results are all that matters. Once one reached 99%ile equipment which might be a $3K bike, a $200 wetsuit, and so on, from then on the top talent will win out over expensive equipment every time. Let fools spend their money on oversized pulleys or a P5X (Jesus fucking how much does that cost anyway?!). It doesn't matter.

I'm pretty sure your entire post can be summed up with: I care about what other people think. When you are 20 you care about what others think. When you turn 40 you stop caring about what other people think, or at least you should. When you turn 60 you realize no one was thinking about you in the first place.

I see participation down in road races,crits and mtb races too. The only thing booming here in the Philly area is cross.

I commend you for this post as you summed it up well. Yes, I agree on all accounts. Just reading the ST article on that $5500 bike thought to myself, man some people here are completely out of touch. I have not read a single response to your thread before typing this. I will shortly.

does the average triathlete really even care about of these super bikes in the 10k+ realm? i think our viewpoint is skewed by being readers of ST. my $5k bike (ia10) is usually seen, at most races, as a super bike. most riders are more than content with their $2k or $3k setups and a good amount aren't even on tri bikes (even at 70.3s). These super bikes are just viewed as Porshes or Aston Martins, things that they know exist and dream about, but aren't actually trying to buy.

the p5x thread clearly shows what the average triathlete brings to a race and how they set those bikes up (i still chuckle when i think of chili dogs now). heck, is your average triathlete even thinking about the podium? triathlon is probably suffering because it isn't much of a social sport, and does the average person really want to train 5 or 6 times a week? the exorbitant race fees are definitely not helping, and i hear this even for running and cycling events: "why pay for that race/event/whatever when i can run and bike for free on my own"

Are that many REALLY buying those $5000+ biked? At the HIMs I've done they're certainly not the majority of bikes I see

Yes. That's called a biased sample (slowtwitch posters).

Also to your point, a lot of people are not entering formal events. They can just compete for free on segments on Strava or Garmin Connect. I remember creating a segment on Garmin Connect this summer and suddenly there were around 100 people who suddenly became part of that competition even though they did not even know it at the time....they all had times and power numbers on that segment.

"This sport will die at this rate. We have a serious and worsening image problem as a cadre of peacocking narcissists with narrow type A attitudes "

You're probably preaching to the choir. Most of the people reading this are likely already spending insane amounts of money on equipment. Sure you're still going to get the odd gifted guy show up on a steel 12 sp at a local sprint and do well, but for the most part it is a fashion show. I haven't done a triathlon for six years but my wife did IM Tremblant a few years ago. I remember noting that her old faithful 2003 Cervelo P2K which went to Australia in 2006 and Kona in 2008 was the 2nd oldest bike I saw there. She still rides it in local sprints but almost everybody even there has newer, cooler, better, etc.

It always has been predominately a rich white boy/rich white girl activity. Compare it with running which in contrast is the great equalizer since the only equipment needed is a pair of shoes (and not even those in a few cases). When was the last time a third world person won a marathon? Now ask the same thing about IM. What's the difference? I'd say its the cost of equipment.

The solution is here. Disk brakes so the $15k bikes and $4k wheelset are now obsolete and need to be replaced with a solution looking for a problem....

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24 Hour World TT Champs-American record holder
Fat Bike Worlds - Race Director
Insta: chris.s.apex

I think all of this factors in. I see plenty of just regular road bikes at HIMs and then plenty of tri bikes in the below $3000 and plenty of those older models so probably far less than $3000. Lots with plain old stock alloy wheels.

Cost for the longer distances is definitely a factor. I have a hard time justifying more than one HIM or IM in a year when I'm factoring in travel expenses. I like to do some local sprints and a couple Olympic distance and then a longer distance. I actually wish Olympic distance had more races. Then I add in the running races I do throughout the year and all total it gets pricey.

I think the Strava segments are cool. And someone mentioned on hear some organized free races website. Don't recall the name.

The amount of training is a big factor. My training for half marathons was easy, time wise, compared to my triathlon training.

For starters, I agree with you completely. I have only been in the sport for 7-8 years but it has really changed since then. I see it in my own tri club as well as in various races. When I spent $3k on a TT bike 7 years ago it was considered pretty much top of the line... I still ride that bike and am constantly suggested to get a new bike. Most of my club mates ride bikes $6k or upwards, going all the way to the $15k bikes. Also, the local bike shops used to carry various TT bikes.. nowadays they carry hardly any.

There's a similar thing with coaching - you have to have a $250/ month minimum personal coach it seems. I have seen that become a requirement as well to be accepted - people won't trust you if you perform well on a free training plan because, by default, it can't be that good, right?

I've started venturing into trail running and recently did a trail marathon and it was so refreshing to experience a different vibe - low entry fee, awesome scenery, cheap gear and everyone just getting dirty in the great outdoors... it was awesome.

Triathlon is becoming more and more elitist and more and more people are moving into different things. I don't think it can be saved; I think the elite will stay and those who don't feel at home will do different things.

I am a "poor" triathlete. Not many dollars and not much time.

Decent wetsuit, swim in community gyms, no masters. ~$200/yr

B14, Quarq, Flo wheels, disc cover, aero helmet. All a couple years old, and expect them to last at least 5 more years. ~$3500 all in, or $500/yr, plus small costs for new tubes, tires, etc

Running shoes, a few pairs per year. ~$200/yr

Apparel: ~$200/yr

Races: I only do local races, be they shorter or HIM (even branded). Can't afford travel/hotels. Far and away this is the most expensive piece of puzzle for me. I don't race a lot as a result.

Bottom line - for me - if races were cheaper, I would be a more active member of the tri community. As is, I mostly just train and keep to myself, with an occasional slowtwitch post.

I will say this. I have tried to convince about 10 of my friends/family to do tri. Every single one says something like "that sounds awesome". Followed by: "I can't swim", "it's too expensive, I don't have a fancy bike", or "I don't have enough time". Zero of 10 have actually done a triathlon.

You could take up fly fishing or golfing.

All hobbies are costly. Nobody said you have to give into peer pressure to get enjoyment out of something.

The early and mid 2000s had a ton of super successful U.S.A. cycling stars driving sales of bikes: Armstrong, Hincapie, Landis, etc. There were also constant improvements in the aerobars, frames, helmets, wheels, making things exciting for the fans and competitors, and consumers, alike.

The Cervelo P2, with a decent aerobar and a really good body position, is probably going to be more aero than how most triathletes ride their (super)bikes today, irrespective of whatever the cost of their bike happened to be. You can pick up one of these used for under $1000 on eBay. Throw on a rear wheel cover and a used front aero wheel, and you have an amazing aero bike for under $1350. The periodic ST thread asking is my (6 or 8 or 10 year old) Cervelo P3 still aero, confirms the preceding. 25 year old HED 3 / Specialized Tri spokes / DuPont Tri Spokes are still crazy fast at low yaw, etc. We probably definitely have passed peak aero, and that's why Cervelo came out with a bike that has built in trunk and storage space like a soccer Mom's SUV or Honda minivan. What you and many others wanted from Cervelo was a P6 or P7, but that bad boy would have such small marginal gains for pure TTers, that it makes zero sense to build, and who wants to buy a 6k frameset that gives you 2 extra watts over a P5.

When bikes have become nosebleed pricing, for only marginal watts and maybe a couple minutes over a IM course, it makes zero sense for 99.9% of triathletes to buy one of these new bikes, irrespective of what that triathlete can or cannot afford.

We now know that all the glorious results of the American cyclists were tainted, so those tainted stars aren't motivating the new masses to cycle or buy a new fancy road or Tri bike. Maybe Gwen will motivate some females and males to get into the sport, but she will never get the press of a Cyclist dominating the euro scene.

The above, along with extremely expensive entry fees catering to high income earners or those willing to sacrifice in many other areas, just to race, is also probably why any triathlon thread forum traffic and triathlon participation is down.

I'm waiting for the times when you could KQ at a sprint/oly race to come back.

You make a lot of accurate observations about the decline of triathlon, but blaming the cost of bikes for the decline is kind of silly. If anything, the willingness of people to spend excessive amounts on bikes is a sign of the health of the industry. It shows that competitors and manufacturers are investing in the sport.

I for one have a nice bike for a couple reasons: (1) I have missed KQing by the slimmest of margins on an entry level bike. Relative to the hours I spent training, not buying a couple minutes of speed was stupid.; (2) tri bikes are really cool. I spent hours comparing brands, reading reviews, getting fit, etc., before buying a top end used bike. I actually am a little self-conscious that cycling is my week spot and I have a killer bike. I certainly don't parade it around with a look-at-me attitude. Has a human being ever gotten laid because of how sweet their bike is?

Totally agree that race fees suck. WTC is hurting the sport, big time.

Don't worry, you'll likely find that in Harbin or Xian or Tianjin or Haikou some time soon. Or instead of Kona qualifying at the Olympic tri in Memphis in May, it will now happen at Macau in May, unless prez Trump can bring back those Kona slots to this side of the Pacific and return us to the former world order where you qualify at just above Olympic tri at the Leon's QEM Tri in the midst of the rust belt. Come on Trump beat up on Dalian Wanda for more than just buying Hollywood properties...bring back our Kona slots!!!!

D, you've nailed it. +1000.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I would suggest you're mixing two separate concerns "competitive triathloning" dominating and "this used to be a lifestyle". For me, and my tri mates, it's rarely competitive (we populate the tail of the bell curve) but it is a lifestyle. Anything wrong with that? No-one I know gives a shit about the price of your bike or frankly how long you take. But we turn up, stay positive, stay active, have fun - BBQ's etc.
Yes, WTC has had an arguably negative impact on the sports affordability from taking over the likes of Vineman, Superfrog, Big Kahuna etc. but HITS, Trickortri etc. is a positive market reaction. The sport will evolve.

Entry fees are not always absurd, but it seems they are for the bigger races.

So for the cheaper route, if the MOPer were to spend $200 on a wetsuit, $2K on a tri-bike, optimized, you lose what, 7-8 minutes over IM on the guy that spent $coin$, and if you really go low and borrow your buddies Schwinn for free, you lose 35 minutes. 35 minutes in 11 hours is something. 8 minutes? Is that something? Is 8 minutes worth $3-5K or more? I guess when you are at the pointy end, it might be, but most people are not at the pointy end.

There's so much more to triathlon than just those 8 minutes. Nutrition, tapering, transitions, bike fit, hydration, experience. All things equal, it's something, but things are never all equal except for very few athletes. Gear for triathlon doesn't need to cost anymore than a nice set of golf clubs, although it's a long way from a pair of running shoes.

I think the reason it's not growing is because it's just hard. The average American might be able to couch to 5K in a 6 month period, or ride a metric century in the same period of training, but swimming efficiently enough to not hate the sport takes a long time and a lot of commitment.

He really did hit it right on the head. I have a new p2 and paid $2600, I thought that was pretty pricey. I am currently looking at a road bike, I don't have one, and it's shocking. This sport is not cheap but so far every race I have been in I have been passed by people on $10,000 bikes and $1000 bikes. They all fly by me the same way. I will never understand the p5x, or bikes in that category. I could buy a very nice tt bike and a very nice road bike for the cost of the p5x.

This sport needs entry level bikes, helmets, suits and gear. We need to find ways to bring more people into the sport, not push them away with our rediculous equipment costs.