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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [Kiri] [ In reply to ]
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well said...count me among those that look at the number of finishers when I do CERTAIN events...Long course triathlons being one of them...I did IMC in 99 and IMW in 2002 and the race organization and experience was amazing......I am retired from IM but if I ever was tempted to do a 101 event I certainly would not want to put in the training to race with 138 people....

on the other hand I do events purely for the challenge....I compete in advanced Orienteering courses with 15 to 25 participants where you go out one at a time into the woods and crash off trail while navigating with a map to locate points as quickly as possible...there is NO race hoopla or spectators.....you might not even see the other participants (you leave or they leave before you/they do the course)...these events have a very small following but I love doing them....for different reasons...and I would suggest MOST people do big and small events because of what they offer...I am done with IM because I dont have enough "want to" to train and compete in another.....BUT if I did I would not be looking at events with less than 1000 participants....for all the reasons Kiri mentioned.....
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [tomziebart] [ In reply to ]
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tom, i am surprised to see your viewpoints so clearly laid out in this thread. i find it interesting the attitude that you took, very different from KJ's.



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Striving to have sex more than 66 times per year
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [Erik Clark] [ In reply to ]
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lookd like they moved the thread.....
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [tomziebart] [ In reply to ]
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Tom:

Just to clarify - none of the One O One venues have expectations of 1500+ participants in the first year. Our venue partners have the same realistic expectations as our staff. Everyone understands the challenges of a new brand with a very short lead time going into a race. We expect to grow with the venue and hit the larger numbers in the future.

Feel free to contact Joe Pickett at the Gulf Coast Sports Commission for his personal thoughts on this event and the future of the event in Bradenton. You're way off base on this one.

P.S. There was a time the DeSoto American Triple-T only had 74 finishers and I almost cancelled it. Glad I didn't - 2 years later the event sells out 6 months in advance and if we had the room at the venue could have 1000+ participants between the three events. However, a smaller field size in no way diminishes a race. Just ask any Triple-T finisher. For those that need 1000+ in a race before they can enter a race - I'll guess we'll see you in a couple of years. Thanks for your patience as we build the Triathlon One O One brand to your expectations.

Sincerely,

Shannon Kurek, Executive Director
Triathlon One O One
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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No, cancelled their race to do 101. Thats the big event.

Dave

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [TOOO Man] [ In reply to ]
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Shannon - just to clarify - this was in the newpaper - not sure who told the TDC that there would be 1,500 world-class competitors at the event, but the newspaper got that from someone!

""HOLMES BEACH - A triathlon to be held in downtown Bradenton and Palmetto in May is expected to attract up to 1,500 world-class competitors and create an economic impact of nearly $2.6 million, the Tourist Development Council was told Monday."

Most races start out small and grow - I have no problem with that. My concern is that TDC's and CVB's are given numbers like "1,500" for a first year event and that is not the truth! Could the event have gotten 1,500 atheltes? Not likely based on a number of reasons. Do TDC's and CVB's believe these numbers - Yes! The first time, but not again.

Z
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [Erik Clark] [ In reply to ]
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Eric - How so? - I might be a bit more negative toward what 101 promised the Bradenton CVB, but in most cases KJ and I agree on almost everything? Z
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [Steve-oH!] [ In reply to ]
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Yep - moving it over here will pretty much end the thread. Z
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [tomziebart] [ In reply to ]
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Interestingly enough, The OneOone series has generated more PR by this thread than they could in the months leading up to the race. Like many PR gurus say, any press is good press. Personally, I love healthy competition and think this series might build popularity with some much more well honed marketing (which I failed to see, even though some posted on here that the RD was a "veteran" of tri's). Like Accelerade, which uses a great PR firm, Ammo Marketing out of SF to build brand evangilisim through grass-roots marketing. For example, they should have been hitting tri clubs in every major market by personal phone calls with discounted slots/free slots to build loyalty in year 1 of the event, which most know are never "instant" sucucesses and are most sure to result in money losses.

The could have done this in Chicago, NYC, Denver, etc. I know from the NYC area and my tri-club which has over 100 memebers most have not even heard of that race and most are not on ST, even those who are very serious about tri's and goto Hawaii. I just never saw anything but an Inside Tri Ad and chatter on ST. Hardly grass-roots marketing 101. Most know that "click-through" rates, like the add on ST in the upper left corner are dismal, usually less than 1-2% of impressions (times the ad was displayed).

With all that said, they have (probably) learned alot by the first event, will make changes going forward (hopefully) and not use ST as a representative sample of demand/supply. The question is whether they have the cash to do this all season long if the #'s at the other races are equally small.
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [Markus Mucus] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:

As lemmings are to a cliff, triathletes are to the IM brand.


"running" = "triathlon"
"Ironman" = "Marathon"

Imagine one company or small group of companies holding the rights to "Marathon". A competing company comes up with "Runathon", 18.63 miles or whatever. Good luck.

One reason all those great shorter races are successful (aside from the fact that many got to call themselves "half Ironmans" for a long time and some now Ironman 70.3) is that they are generally on outstanding or at least good race courses, as well as being well run. 6 loop bike course? As Gob says, "Come on!!!". 101 can't compete on the cachet of a name, that battle is lost, or the distances...specific distances don't matter. They have to compete on the quality of the event, a huge part of which is the course. Let me swim, bike and run somewhere that I normally could not, with some combination of beauty, challenge/epicness (ie not loops). Doesn't have to be unique in the world, but unique or memorable to me. They got one thing right, which is that they can't compete directly at "Iron distance" no matter how great the course, that's been and is still being tried but with limited success (GF, Vineman, Silverman). Maybe the California race course is good enough, in which case just pitch it as an awesome triathlon on a great course...nobody cares about being a 101man, but a great race run by the brand 101 or whatever you might call it, that people will do, and from there you can develop brand loyalty.
Last edited by: skip: May 10, 07 16:46
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [feviking] [ In reply to ]
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Having done both the inaugaral IMLP an the inaugaral Silverman (and the 101 last sunday, for that matter), you have no idea what you're talking about, just from looking at finisher times. Silverman is a tougher course than LP.

In many ways, it is more challenging to test one's athletic abilities without constant neck-to-neck competition. Smaller field sizes on tough courses give one a great deal of insight into one's mental fortitude.
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [tomziebart] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Shannon - just to clarify - this was in the newpaper - not sure who told the TDC that there would be 1,500 world-class competitors at the event, but the newspaper got that from someone!

""HOLMES BEACH - A triathlon to be held in downtown Bradenton and Palmetto in May is expected to attract up to 1,500 world-class competitors and create an economic impact of nearly $2.6 million, the Tourist Development Council was told Monday."

My concern is that TDC's and CVB's are given numbers like "1,500" for a first year event and that is not the truth! Could the event have gotten 1,500 atheltes? Not likely based on a number of reasons. Do TDC's and CVB's believe these numbers - Yes! The first time, but not again.

Statements like this make future events tough on all RD's. As it is, it's not easy to convince a town to host an event. When a community thinks they'll see 1500 athletes and a $2.6 million boost to the economy, and it doesn't materialize, they won't likely agree to host such an event again. It's an unfortunate occurence, because word like this gets around, and it makes it tougher and tougher for RD's to secure new sites for races, and cooperation from the host communities.

We don't know where the newspapers got numbers like that, but you can bet that the community will not be terribly excited when they compare the estimated impact to the actual end result.
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Wow - an hour of reading this thread and I'm thoroughly disgusted. Why are so many on the attack when it comes to 101? If it succeeds or fails - why all the fuss? Is it to be the first to be able to say, "I told you so"? And then the personal attacks - the flippant attacks on integrity? Good grief - there are, thankfully, MANY triathletes out there who either don't anymore or never do read Slowtwitch for reasons like this thread - all the damn negativity. This is an awesome sport - a savior to some and life-long activity for many. The people involved in the sport, for the most part - again are awesome. How folks get across the finish line worrying about how they are going to explain what they just did, or the difference between making a brand or an event, etc, etc - it baffles me. It really seems like many of you hope TOOO does not make it...why would you hope for that?

I did the 101 - and I've never done a M-dot race - prior to the 101 I just did a single half - Miami Man, which I thought was an excellent race. Perhaps I'm a minority, but I make decent money but can't stand the thought of having to pay $450 a year in advance to take part in an event just to hear, "you are an Ironman", when I can pay a lot less to do the same distance. I know I'm a minority - the dwindling numbers at non-M-dot races show me that. I'll do a M-dot race some day, but not so that it's "easier to explain at the gas station", but because I'm a lemming too, and will have to check that block, so to speak, for myself. I chose to do the 101 because I READ what was written about the event - the "whys" for doing it, and saw the value in not beating myself up like an IM distance does, and I really wanted to test myself at that distance, before taking on IM. I paid $150 and could have signed up still the week prior for that same amount with readily available discount codes.

Only 117 (I think) started the race - it was personal and charming, if thats any way to describe a race. I felt by the end of the race the guys and volunteers from 101 knew me. It was awesome and made a difference. Sure execution is important, and on race day, these guys and gals did execute. What these folks did on race day and during registration was show that they care about ME. I'll give them more of my money, and recommend them to my tri-friends. Many folks - perhaps outside the slowtwitch mafia - are looking forward to doing this race (btw, there are other communities out there filled with POSITIVE, enthusiastic triatletes...). There are 204 folks signed up for Woodlands right now - spending registration money in advance, and more will sign up after they talk with their friends who've had positive experiences.

I averaged 7.6 hrs a week training for this event in the 25 weeks leading up to it. It's not a race you have to commit hours and hours of training time to. I was not beat up by it. No - I'm not fast or strong in an event - I dig the lifestyle. I dig the challenge. I know that I'm not ready for IM distance. I proved that to myself on May 6th. I gained invaluable knowledge about pacing, nutrition, liquids, heat and proper tire changing gear that wasn't learned at the half IM distance. This was a much different race than 70.6, as I'm sure the next step will be - when I'm ready.

There's a progression to triathlon that I think many people overlook or ignore. Folks go after thier M-Dot tattoo too early, before they are ready, and suddenly they never want to do that distance again. The investment in time and energy and toll on the body with such a quick ramp-up is too much for many, many people...it probably hurts the long-distance tri market in the long run because of the lack of repeat business! This race lends itself well to folks who want to test the waters and realize that this year is not thier LAST year in long-distance triathlon. Do a half; when it feels good, try the 101 - it's ok to bounce back to a half or do another 101 to build confidence for a full. Why bother? Because if your training at the Half level, you can do a 101. It's a step up, in the right direction, and it doesn't kill ya. It means something to me. I don't really care if the IM finisher's of the world think less of the race - really, every one of my tri friends and accuaintances have congratulated me on the accomplishment (most are IM finishers). No one has said, "yea, but it's not an Ironman...". It certaintly isn't an Ironman, but now I know what I need to do to get there. Thank you, One-O-One. Good job in Bradenton; my wife (who as a spectator was treated first class, unlike at other races) and I had an excellent experience.

=================================
http://www.clydesdaleshavebigbikes.blogspot.com
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [Erik Clark] [ In reply to ]
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[reply]tom, i am surprised to see your viewpoints so clearly laid out in this thread. i find it interesting the attitude that you took, very different from KJ's.[/reply]

I was thinking the exact same thing. Kind of surprised me.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [Bigun86] [ In reply to ]
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>> It really seems like many of you hope TOOO does not make it...why would you hope for that? <<

That is my questios as well.

Congratulations on your finish and thanks for the well thought out post.

clm

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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Cathy - The main reason I'm disappointed in what happened in Bradenton with 101 is that I live in Florida and have been putting events on in this state for 25 years.

The state has experienced a number of triathlon promoters that came to cites in Florida with events that promised "economic impact". In most cases these events provided what they promised. (USTS in the 80's in a good example) In some cases the promise was not full- filled and the city or area received very little economic impact. In the worst cases (0nly of few) the race did not go well and the promoter left without paying his bills.

Tri 101 made promises to Bradenton area - 1,500 world-class athletes and 3-4 million $ economic impact. These things did not happen.

This weekend a local swim team put on a triathlon on Siesta Key (10 miles south of Bradenton). This group has been putting on events for the past 20 years. They had just under 1,000 participants. This group made no promises of economic impact to the community - they did the race to raise money for their swim team.

I really do not care if 101 is successful or not. I do care about promoters overselling an event to a TCD and not producing the promised numbers.

Z
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [tomziebart] [ In reply to ]
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Well this is my first time posting here on slowtwitch, but I thought a perfect opportunity! I'm always the guys who uses this for an education, and not a forum to post my opinion. However- not having any allegiance to any of the long distance guys, the longest race to date for me is a half. I thought I would share my weak opinion- so here it is-

Hopefully the 101 series brings more options to this great sport. As tough as it is to throw yourself to the monsters of ironman this sport could certainly use alternatives. Competition brings out the best in all of us! With this being said why don't you naysayers embrace this new brand! It can only make our race experiences better! We owe it to the pro's who make a living at this stuff while the rest of us our working boring full time jobs, We also owe it to the AGer's who are out there just trying to be better, We owe it to ourselves!!!

Tom don't know who you are. Understand your concern! But why not help our great sport get better, Tom! I feel like you are the evil step dad yelling at your children and trying to spoil the fun for the rest of us!!

OK back to reading only
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [tomziebart] [ In reply to ]
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I think Tri101 organizers maybe promised too much and delivered too little. As a long-time HFP Racing racer here in Ohio I'm a little disappointed in the things I'm reading and seeing. However, although I applaud the 101 group's entrpreneurship, when the new series was announced the first thought that came into my mind was that this was old sheep in new clothing Deer Creek Pineman 3/4 that HFP used to put on. I looked at the results from the last years the 3/4 was put on and it never had over 30 people. Why did Shannon & company ever think that this failed race distance in Ohio would ever succeed nationally?

I think it will be interesting to see where 101 lands in a few years. The 1st race started with some bumps but you never know. We could all be sitting here 5 years from now bitching about 101 races closing out in 24 hours.

The other issue is that this series seemed to focus only on pros. The big prize purse only draws interest from pros. I never did a race because so-n-so pro was going to be there. I do a race based on reputation for quality, organization, value-added to me as a participant, and on my schedule. 101 will draw the kiss of death if it continues to have organizational issues. But my bet is that the next 101 race they will be back on top of their game.

Charles

What's up with Chuck?
Last edited by: BuckeyeChuck: Jun 17, 07 14:34
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [bikerboy] [ In reply to ]
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"Tom don't know who you are. Understand your concern! But why not help our great sport get better, Tom!"

I think that's pretty much what I've been doing for the past 25 years as an competitor, race director, race announcer, USAT board member and volunteer. Hope I've helped the sport grow and allowed participants a chance to enjoy the over 250 races that I've worked on.

One of my best friends who worked under me as an intern and employee for a number of years was the RD in Bradenton. TJ did an outstanding job of making sure the race took place. I'm proud of his effort and that he was able to make sure that the race took place. Not sure, if I would have been up to that job.


Z
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [tomziebart] [ In reply to ]
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Tom- I never doubted you resume or your love for the sport! The only thing most of us have noticed is your strong opinions and your lack of tact in sharing them. For some odd reason you are not afraid to share your very strong negative feelings about the 101 series.

Smile and drink some gatorade!!!
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [bikerboy] [ In reply to ]
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When someone is talking the truth, and is 100% right, why is that a negative, seems to me some people can't handle the truth, and will want to hear what they want to hear.

I will wait for this to be deleted, 2 so far? land of the brave and free.



Break on through to the other side!
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [bikerboy] [ In reply to ]
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"The only thing most of us have noticed is your strong opinions and your lack of tact in sharing them."

Well, I guess my posts are not doing much good then if that is all "most of us" are understanding about them!

Strong Opinions? How so? Lack of Tact? Give me a break! Z
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [tomziebart] [ In reply to ]
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First off...it wouldn't be the first time some reporter got his facts/figures/quotes/information wrong. A number of things could have been said such as we hope that in a few years the economic impact will be X, or perhaps this reporter got this number from a city official and simply assumed he meant this year.
Of course, I have a significant disdain for "reporters" and don't generally trust what they say at all. My point is, you shouldn't believe everything you read. Heck, if I believed everything I read, i could say that an IM race in Lake Placid is safe and without drafting. :)

https://www.miles4matt.run/
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [GearGrinder] [ In reply to ]
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Numbers of Volunteers do not make a race is true, but 101 Bike Course had 5 total including manning an Aid station.

Swim Volunteers Totalled 2.

Run Volunteers amounted to 2 per Aid Station for most of the event.

It takes more than an inflateable Finish Line and some PVC fencing to put on an event of quality.

Pay the Race Director what you said you would and recognise him for his efforts, employ someone else for your next FL race because it wont be in Bradenton and he wouldn't work for you again anyway!
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Re: We can all complain about IMNA, but... [Maple] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:

Did you find the volunteers swamped?
I've done very low key running events where there is barely any support, but for the cost of the triathlon there should be some.

1) Was there enough food and drink at the Florida event? Will I be able to refill a bottle, for instance?

2) Were there enough portapotties?

I did a triathlon last year where I had to compete with spectators for one of 2 stalls to take a leak.
My finish time was 55 seconds off my target ... so it was pretty annoying in retrospect that I could have hit that if I didn't have to wait..
Last edited by: ofg: May 14, 07 16:38
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