Sorry guys, not avoiding the question but need to check with my LBS to confirm the answer.

I would note that when a clincher tire fails from over-inflation, it is because the tire exerts too much outward force at the tire bead, which causes the rim track to fail.

With my wheel, the rim track is intact, no issues there - in fact you can see that the tire stayed seated. It's just that the side of the rim blew up and separated from the rest of the rim. That's all! /sarcasm

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Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
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Mine where ordered from wheelbulder.com.... pretty sure they did not use Enve tape. If they fail, I will have wheel builder cover it.

to my understanding its not really that you have to use enve's tape, just that you have to use the right width which is wider than you might expect.
enve, not surprisingly, say to use theirs but anything that seals to the right width should not be a problem in practice (although enve may still refuse warranty if there was to be a problem)

Whoa that... that's a new failure mode. I agree: Enve should be totally clear about their tape requirement.

So this would apply to all tubeless ready Enve rims? Including the 3.4's and their MTB rims? I have 3 different friends who own the 7.8's (might be an older non tubeless version though), the new 3.4's that are tubeless, and the M50 MTB wheels.

Exactly.

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tinman

And I suppose if Enve put a vent hole in the hollow area (as not designed to get pressurized) the consequence will be the tubeless tyre will simply not be pressurized, or not for long.

At least, it would not destroy the rim, simply give a signal "hey, this is not sealed, please seal me with larger tape".

So basically the tape need to cover all carbon surface, from left tyre wall to right tyre wall ?

Are you running tubeless? If you're using a tube this is not really an issue... the only thing the tape does is it prevents the latex from ballooning through the spoke holes. If you're running tubeless like the OP then you have a problem.

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What's your CdA?

Im some lady can win a lawsuit from McDonalds because they didn't put "coffee is hot" on cup (which is common sense)

I think you could pressure them with a letter from a lawyer since they don't specify this. Amazing what a letter with a law firm header can do.

people are quick to reference this case as a frivolous lawsuit, but most who actually read the details of the case come to the conclusion her claims were justified

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the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning

There is surprisingly little information out on the web about this issue with their wheels. I had this same explosion happen to a pair of my SES tubeless wheels and it shocked me. Mine had tape that ran the full width in the rim. Same Schwable Pro One tire model as you. Mine were 28c at about 70psi. I used to worry about latex tubes failing in overheated carbon clinchers, but seeing one of these rims blow apart is a lot more worrisome:(

Around the time mine failed Enve had just sent out that list of "approved" tubeless tires and the pressure tables. This wasn't around previously. I have to think there are incidents out there driving the multiple revisions to their recommendations. I haven't seen the Enve-only rim tape reference you mention.

Your new crash replacement build probably came with their new Red rim tape. I worked extra hard to be sure the new rims were completely clean and that the tape went down smooth and with wrap up the inner walls of the rim. It is hard not to think about it when really moving along with this wheelset.

FWIW. I have been using Silca tape in place of nylon rim strips on Zipp wheels with inner tubes for several years with good success. This past summer I used Silca tape for a set of Edco carbon tubeless aero wheels that I mounted up with Schwable Pro Ones. With fairly low mileage this combo went to Hawaii for a month of training and the tape failed about two weeks into the trip on a very hot day while stopped for a fluid refill. The result was just a leak down vs. any catastrophic rim failure. The tape adhesive failed and even at full width the tire bead didn't provide enough bite to keep air/sealant from pushing under the edge of the tape. These were 23c tires and run at more like 80psi. Had to take it to Bikeworks because minimal tools/supplies around. They said they'd seen this with a number of tubeless rims and used thicker Spec 2Bliss rim strips in place of the Silca tape for the Edcos. No problems at all after this switch. Though we haven't had to pull the tires so the thicker rim strip could make that harder.

Is there any data as to similar issues from other tubeless wheel makers?

I know you guys mentioned the spoke holes being tight enough to not leak air, but what about where the valve stem goes through? The aero part it exits through, the fit can't be that tight, no way. I thought the sealed rubber piece of the valve would be inserted only in the structural rim bed itself. Meaning the wiggle room in the deep part of the rim would let air escape.

Did this happen on the tubeless "burp" of initial rapid pressurization to seat the tire, or during steady state holding pressure?

Thank you for making this reply to an uneducated post. It's a super interesting story. The short version for Twinkie is that there were already ~700 documented instances of people getting burned and this elderly lady nearly died after getting 2nd and 3rd degree burns over a large part of her body. McDonalds refused to cover her out of pocket medical costs for skins grafts and other fun stuff. She had to sue them or go bankrupt. Crazy stuff about McDonalds and their coffee practices came out. The jury tried to prove a point after how flippant McDonalds' lawyers (and witnesses) treated the whole thing. She was awarded much less than the mediator originally suggested for her damages. However, she was awarded 2 days of national coffee sales as punitive damages which were a couple million. The judge quickly reduced that number to less than half a million. McDonalds appealed and they eventually settled out of court for an undisclosed amount. Anything after that is just opinion. She may have been too broke to wait out appeals.

But towards the original topic, this seems like an oversight that something so small can destroy a rim. What if the right tape was just partially installed wrong or the 'wrong' tape was covering almost enough and it all let go on a ride? I think we're all relieved that refthimos is out a little money instead of teeth and limbs from wrecking when a rim blew up.

this is one of the things that concerns me here - even if you happen to know all the specific tape requirements, at some point the tape is going to fail due to heat, age etc. proactive maintenance will hopefully avoid that but you would expect a non-catastrophic immediate result of normal wear and tear.

i'm also intrigued that the pressure is sufficient to blow out the rim - surely in a rim as wide and deep as a 7.8 there is enough space relative to the tyre that the pressure would be very low. this suggests that the rims are very fragile against side forces. a 2.2 would be completely obliterated in the same situation due to its lower depth and hence volume

i'm going to stick with tubes in my 7.8s (as i was intending anyway)

sorry to hear about this. They don't put weep holes in the side to allow water to drain if you ride in the rain or through a puddle or is that only on non-carbon rims. I'm not near a pair to check. I know for sure my campy aluminum rims have weep holes. This would have given a release point for air trapped under the rim strip.

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Great things never come from comfort zones.

What is strange about this is that if you have not sealed the rim properly on any MTB rim, the fluid will for sure find it's way out around the valve at much lower pressures, mostly in the low 20's.
Everybody thinks that the valve is leaking around the base so they tighten it and then replace thinking it is the problem when the real problem is elsewhere, usually a rim joint in an alloy rim.

So I find it difficult to believe that any air escaping into the faired part of these wheels could possible be trapped there when fluid will always find it's way out at much lower pressures in any other rim.
Also bodes bad for wheel longevity if the rim is porous as any amount of fluid inside the rim will quickly corrode the alloy nipples.
This design is death and should be taken off the market.

Funnily enough, this problem has never surfaced on even the cheapest Chinese rims.

I don't think air would be trapped if it was slowly leaking. I'd suspect it was the rate at which it escapes into the fairing area. It still seems crazy that 70 psi in a tire then expanding into an additional area (reduced pressure?) would blow the wheel apart.

Enve has always highlighted that their wheels use spoke holes that are formed rather than drilled. They use brass internal nipples and these appear to bed tightly in the internal nipple seat of the fairing (I know this detail from seeing the inside of the setup on mine!). This might mean the only place fluid (and air) can easily pass out of the Enve fairing area is the valve stem hole (if open).

https://www.enve.com/...he-internal-nipples/

Carbon rims with drilled spoke holes and external nipples (Zipp) appear more porous. I've experienced very wet riding conditions where water makes it's way into the rim by what I assume is passing through the spoke holes.

This thread is a great argument for 'real' tubeless wheels - without spoke holes inside the rim bed. Like the old Shimano Ultegras.

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Dont easton carbon clincher wheels like the aero55 have this feature?

x100

Yup, beyond justified.
She nearly died in the ordeal.

But, in response, mcdonald's basically told her to piss off and couldn't be bothered to help her with her very substantial medical costs. Customer care at its best.

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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They do! Also, it's crazy that they don't get more love. They're probably the best all-around wheelset I've ever ridden. In addition to the smooth 19mm internal channel, the 55s are as tough as they come, braking surface is awesome, they handle gusts better than any wheel I've ridden (shallow or deep), look the part, and have nice hubs.

As to their robustness, which the smooth inner channel may play a part (conjecture here, really), there was an incident where I ran off the road about a month ago. I got distracted for a moment and drifted a bit too far right. This was right before the entrance to a new development and my luck had me have to go into a shallow ravine which I was able to ride out, but the only way safely back onto the pavement was by jumping the up onto the concrete curb. I only had one hand firmly on the bars, as the other was holding my Lara bar (yes I was eating when I road off) I wasn't able to hop up onto the curb and had to ride it. Suffice it to say that I hit the curb hard enough (about 4-5" above the dirt surface so I caught the full force of that concrete edge) that I flatted my front Pro One and thought for sure the rim was trashed. But it wasn't even knocked out of true, dented, or nicked in any way. This is running 55psi in the 23c Pro One.

Yeah, I love my wheels. ;)

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Aren’t Yoeleos like that? They install the spoke nipples through the valve hole and rattle them over.

I have Giant PSLR and they have vent, i was wondering why (was thinking about water evacuation on rainy day), now i know why. So it's not about holes in the rim. I think the tape story is bullshit because any slightly wrong tape installation could result in similar failure. There are often leak at the valve that could result in similar problems. Another solution would be not to make the valve airtight at the top which is of no use.

I believe this is relevant to this thread.
https://www.enve.com/en/journal/behind-the-product-pressure-relief-valve-stem-nut/

Funny, I thought the same thing when I received an email from Enve this morning with a link to that article. I very much would have preferred to purchase some pressure release valve stem nuts than pay the >$800 it cost me to replace my destroyed front wheel.

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Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099