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WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final
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Who you got? It looks like it's between Bergere, Yee, and Wilde. I'm pulling for Luis to repeat, although being in 6th only a miracle would bring him the overall title. Any chance Blu makes some noise?

This place is so dull right now. We need to be talking about the true world championship of triathlon.
Last edited by: Sub17Project: Nov 23, 22 12:39
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [Sub17Project] [ In reply to ]
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Sub17Project wrote:
Who you got? It looks like it's between Bergere, Yee, and Wilde. I'm pulling for Luis to repeat, although being in 6th only a miracle would bring him the overall title. Any chance Blu makes some noise?

This place is so dull right now. We need to be talking about the true world championship of triathlon.

The women's race ought to be an exciting one too with Duffy vs GBT winner takes all. Taylor Knibb has the potential to complicate things for either or both of those two by putting real pressure on during the bike. I'd love to see her have a good swim and get out there to really wreck the shop right from the get go. It's only 2 days away. I'll have my alarm clock set.

YMMV,

Hugh

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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sciguy wrote:
Sub17Project wrote:
Who you got? It looks like it's between Bergere, Yee, and Wilde. I'm pulling for Luis to repeat, although being in 6th only a miracle would bring him the overall title. Any chance Blu makes some noise?

This place is so dull right now. We need to be talking about the true world championship of triathlon.

The women's race ought to be an exciting one too with Duffy vs GBT winner takes all. Taylor Knibb has the potential to complicate things for either or both of those two by putting real pressure on during the bike. I'd love to see her have a good swim and get out there to really wreck the shop right from the get go. It's only 2 days away. I'll have my alarm clock set.

YMMV,

Hugh

Me too! Men's race is 6am EST I believe on Saturday morning. What time is the women's race?
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [Sub17Project] [ In reply to ]
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Who I got?

U23 men

I think there are a number of strong swimmers and we could see (at least initially) a front pack forming with (maybe not an exhaustive list) Riddle, McCullough, Yoshikawa, Crociani, Stapley, Strada, Devay, Dixon?, Dobi). The outcome of the race depends on whether that pack stays ahead at the end of the bike and to what extent. But (apart from Dixon) none of the names I listed above are great runners so they'd need a somewhat big lead. If the pack comes back together, then my picks (of fastest runners) would be: Georgenthum, Fluri, some South American (Brazil, Mexico, they always have fast runners in the bunch), not sure about the lone Spanish guy (surprising they only send one athlete to the U23 worlds), maybe one other French.

U23 women

I know that Bianca Seregni is going to drill the swim. Whether she'll have anybody else to work with on the bike I'm not sure (Marta Kropko swims fast too, but not very strong on the bike yet). In general, I'd say Kate Waugh and Annika Koch are clearly the two big favourites. Another italian runner (if in position off the bike) could threaten a bit maybe (Arpinelli, Mallozzi).

Elite men

I think on that course it comes down to a big pack together at T2, so my money is on Alex Yee for the win. In front of Hayden Wilde, third Matt Hauser (although he has yet to really prove he can run this fast over the Olympic 10k run distance). Others in the mix for a podium: Blummenfeldt and Iden, the French squad (all of them), Spanish squad, Jelle Geens. Wildcards: Briffod, Vilaca, Messias, Abdelmoula, Biscak, Lehmann, Priester, Silva, McElroy, Birtwhistle, Wernz, etc, man is WTCS racing going deep in quality field, a true World Championship!!!).

Elite women

Flora vs Georgia. Possibly arbitrated by Knibb, Beaugrand, Lindemann, Lombardi, and other possible podium contenders are Rappaport/Pedersen/Tertsch/Periault if a big group at T2. A couple of wildcards (maybe not for the win, but a good result): Sophie Lin (for her run) and Tilda Mansson (a future superstar of WTCS).

Those are my takes. Anybody else?
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [Sub17Project] [ In reply to ]
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Sub17Project wrote:


Me too! Men's race is 6am EST I believe on Saturday morning. What time is the women's race?


The elite women are at 4:00am EST on Friday



Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
Last edited by: sciguy: Nov 25, 22 13:23
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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Women are 4am EST Friday.
Men are 6am EST Saturday.

https://abudhabi.triathlon.org/schedule/
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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Is it going to broadcast anywhere? Streamed? Any idea? I am in the US.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [oprfcc] [ In reply to ]
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oprfcc wrote:
Women are 4am EST Friday.
Men are 6am EST Saturday.

https://abudhabi.triathlon.org/schedule/

Thanks for that. Apparently Triathlon Live has the men's time messed up.

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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Triathlon Live

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [Sub17Project] [ In reply to ]
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Sub17Project wrote:
Who you got? It looks like it's between Bergere, Yee, and Wilde. I'm pulling for Luis to repeat, although being in 6th only a miracle would bring him the overall title. Any chance Blu makes some noise?

This place is so dull right now. We need to be talking about the true world championship of triathlon.

Can somebody fill me in on the difference between WTCS, Olympic, and any other triathlon leagues there are? Which ones are Olympic distance vs sprint vs something else? From the vague following I do, it seems a lot of the races with the big names are shorter than Olympic distance which seems a bit odd.
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [Nick2413] [ In reply to ]
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Wtcs is the top level of the Olympic format. Within Wtcs there is sprint and Olympic distances. The Olympic distance makes up only about 1/3rd of the events these days. There has been “rumors” of DL going to sprint distance for Olympic race. but I’ve heard that rumor as early as 2011.

There is the Wtcs series rankings and then there is Olympic points ranking. They have slight difference in what events count, etc. 2 year Olympic Point build up each Olympics and the Wtcs series is every year.

Grand final is more points than other events, and it’s been that way for about 10 years now where they removed the 1 day “world championship” winner take all.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [Nick2413] [ In reply to ]
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Super League is kinda the “all star” super sprint DL format that usually does the back to back mini sprints format etc.

Mixed team relay is part of the Wtcs and Olympic race. This cycle the females anchor the m-f-m-f format.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
Wtcs is the top level of the Olympic format. Within Wtcs there is sprint and Olympic distances. The Olympic distance makes up only about 1/3rd of the events these days. There has been “rumors” of DL going to sprint distance for Olympic race. but I’ve heard that rumor as early as 2011.

There is the Wtcs series rankings and then there is Olympic points ranking. They have slight difference in what events count, etc. 2 year Olympic Point build up each Olympics and the Wtcs series is every year.

Grand final is more points than other events, and it’s been that way for about 10 years now where they removed the 1 day “world championship” winner take all.


To add to what Brooks (correctly) wrote:

You can see triathlon as (almost, but the Norwegians have smashed that in the last year or so) being two different main sports: long distance (Ironman, PTO, etc) and short distance.

Short distance for the most part is 'owned' or rather organised by our international federation for the sport of triathlon, World Triathlon (formerly know as the ITU or International Triathlon Union).

There are a few tiers of races that athletes can compete in depending on their level at any point in time: Continental races (such as European Cups, Oceania Cups, America Cups, etc), then World Cups, and finally the top series (with about 7-8 races every year is the World Triathlon Championship Series (or WTCS). The race in Abu Dhabi is the final race of that series, and counts for double the points (to place in the WTCS final ranking to be crowned World Champion) compared to the other races in that series.

All of these races (all tiers) also allow athletes to score points for either their World Triathlon individual ranking (this is important to have access to some races, although ultimately that decision is up to each athlete's national federation whether they are entered or not) or the Olympic rankings (both for individuals and nations) within an Olympic qualification cycle (races counting for qualifying for the Paris 2024 Olympics started in May this year and qualification should run all the way to about May/June 2024).

All these races (all tiers) can be done in any of the official formats allowed for short distance triathlon under World Triathlon rules. Super Sprint (various formats including some used by the Super League for example), Sprint and Classic distance (the Classic distance was once called Olympic distance but that is not factually correct as this could change at any point in time as Brooks alluded to in his response).

As the op and Brooks have noted, while for the elites there is not a one day World Championship race anymore, the WTCS Grand Final is the closest we have for a World Championship for our sport (short distance, and even overall as Long distance is for the most part ran by 'non-official' private organisations and not the main body that represents our sport).

Also, the level of WTCS racing is very high and especially (compared to long distance) runs with very deep competitive fields.

Finally, there are other short distance formats on top of the tiers I mentioned above. Typically many national federations will also have their own series of races domestically, the best know of those being the French Grand Prix which attracts very deep and competitive fields from France and abroad. And some other 'private' enterprise the most famous of them being the Super League Triathlon (SLT), which invites a limited set of triathletes from the World Triathlon circuit (and sometimes others like Cameron Wurf in Malibu) to contest their series over a short period of time (usually in discussion with World Triathlon, they place their races in a part of the calendar that doesn't include World Triathlon races. This year was a bit particular, as the World Triathlon series finishes very late in the year, but usually SLT starts in September just after the WTCS series has concluded).

Hope this helps shed even more light on what we're talking about this coming weekend and how short distance triathlon works.
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [Sub17Project] [ In reply to ]
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I am registered to do the race, but I also have on the same day a WC game to go watch so won't participate this year :(
Really nice event, very technical and pretty fun bike course.

Where will it be streamed, youtube?

Tridad
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [gillesgh] [ In reply to ]
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Easiest way to watch is through TriathlonLIVE.tv They have apps for different devices or you can stream in a web browser for $11.99/month or $35/year. Well worth a subscription.
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [Uncle Phil] [ In reply to ]
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thank you

Tridad
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]
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Diabolo wrote:

Elite women

Flora vs Georgia. Possibly arbitrated by Knibb, Beaugrand, Lindemann, Lombardi, and other possible podium contenders are Rappaport/Pedersen/Tertsch/Periault if a big group at T2. A couple of wildcards (maybe not for the win, but a good result): Sophie Lin (for her run) and Tilda Mansson (a future superstar of WTCS).

Those are my takes. Anybody else?

Surprised you are rating Rappaport above Spivey and also Lindemann above Potter. Sophie Linn hasn’t proved she can run with the top group at 10km.
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [SheridanTris] [ In reply to ]
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SheridanTris wrote:
Diabolo wrote:

Elite women

Flora vs Georgia. Possibly arbitrated by Knibb, Beaugrand, Lindemann, Lombardi, and other possible podium contenders are Rappaport/Pedersen/Tertsch/Periault if a big group at T2. A couple of wildcards (maybe not for the win, but a good result): Sophie Lin (for her run) and Tilda Mansson (a future superstar of WTCS).

Those are my takes. Anybody else?

Surprised you are rating Rappaport above Spivey and also Lindemann above Potter. Sophie Linn hasn’t proved she can run with the top group at 10km.

Yes forgot to list Potter. Taylor is a threat to finish top 5 or 10 every race, but to me lacks a bit of something to truly challenge for a win in both scenari.
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks to you and Brooks for the thorough response.
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [Nick2413] [ In reply to ]
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Nick2413 wrote:
Thanks to you and Brooks for the thorough response.

X2 - that was a master class response!

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]
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Diabolo wrote:
Short distance for the most part is 'owned' or rather organised by our international federation for the sport of triathlon, World Triathlon (formerly know as the ITU or International Triathlon Union).

There are a few tiers of races . . . finally the top series (with about 7-8 races every year is the World Triathlon Championship Series (or WTCS). The race in Abu Dhabi is the final race of that series, and counts for double the points (to place in the WTCS final ranking to be crowned World Champion) compared to the other races in that series.

All these races (all tiers) can be done in any of the official formats allowed for short distance triathlon under World Triathlon rules. Super Sprint . . . , Sprint and Classic distance (the Classic distance was once called Olympic distance but that is not factually correct as this could change at any point in time as Brooks alluded to in his response).

As the op and Brooks have noted, while for the elites there is not a one day World Championship race anymore, the WTCS Grand Final is the closest we have for a World Championship for our sport (short distance, and even overall as Long distance is for the most part ran by 'non-official' private organisations and not the main body that represents our sport).
Hope this helps shed even more light on what we're talking about this coming weekend and how short distance triathlon works.
Bravo for that summary. Please excuse a couple of corrections and a comment.
Points for the 'final' this weekend:
In a typical WTCS event, race winners are awarded 1000 points, with each position lower reducing by 7.5%. The Championship Finals gain higher prestige, with the winning athlete awarded 1250 points (with the same 7.5% reduction per position).
Comment: This has a bearing on the GTB v Duffy head-to-head and also the Wilde v Yee one.
Term for the 1.5k/40k/10k distance:
This is the 'Standard' distance. The only time 'classic' appears in the WT rules it is used to describe the style of skiing in parallel cut tracks (ie not skating). There are trademark issues about calling this distance 'Olympic' as well as Brooks' point.
https://www.triathlon.org/...022_20220128_xxx.pdf

Consistent with @diabolo's summary on 'world championship' status, WT does run a 'Long Distance' world champs (eg 2021 Almere; this year at Samorin) but it does not attract the top athletes (prize purse and prestige cf Roth or the IM staged soi disant championships at 70.3 and 'Ironman'.
I think it's a challenge to describe the final race of a series (eg 2021 Edmonton, this year Abu Dhabi) as a world championships because the race winner may not be 'crowned' world champion. Hence @diabolo's "nearest". I note that WT are not styling this weekend as a 'Grand Final' this year.
https://www.triathlon.org/...hip_finals_abu_dhabi

I think it'd be fairer to say that the World Championships staged by IM is far more a Triathlon World Championships than the race this weekend, and because hundreds of thousands of athletes have completed a non-draft race, this is recognised by the athletic population as such, irrespective of the fact that WT cgas and can't be bothered with long course. WT (and its regional unions eg ETU) run amateur World and Regional Championships split into age groups, and these amateurs buy and wear national trisuits usv to race in.
Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Nov 24, 22 5:06
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]
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If Pearson can find his bike legs and show up ready I think he’ll finish top 5. He raced “poorly” in Chile on the bike but had top 5 swim and run splits so as long as he can stay upright, I think he’s going to be the “hasnt raced all year how will his run hold up” commentary of the day.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [Sub17Project] [ In reply to ]
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Yee seemed to have a bit of an off day last race, I think normal service resumes this time round and he wins comfortably over Wilde.

Mouthwatering clash between GTB and Duffy which is difficult to call, both streets ahead of everyone else this year, maybe this might get decided on the blue carpet in a sprint finish is what it probably deserves.
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [SheridanTris] [ In reply to ]
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SheridanTris wrote:
Diabolo wrote:

Elite women

Flora vs Georgia. Possibly arbitrated by Knibb, Beaugrand, Lindemann, Lombardi, and other possible podium contenders are Rappaport/Pedersen/Tertsch/Periault if a big group at T2. A couple of wildcards (maybe not for the win, but a good result): Sophie Lin (for her run) and Tilda Mansson (a future superstar of WTCS).

Those are my takes. Anybody else?

Surprised you are rating Rappaport above Spivey and also Lindemann above Potter. Sophie Linn hasn’t proved she can run with the top group at 10km.

Spivey is racing sick tomorrow, wouldn't expect much out of her.
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Re: WTCS Abu Dhabi Grand Final [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Jackets wrote:
Yee seemed to have a bit of an off day last race, I think normal service resumes this time round and he wins comfortably over Wilde.

Mouthwatering clash between GTB and Duffy which is difficult to call, both streets ahead of everyone else this year, maybe this might get decided on the blue carpet in a sprint finish is what it probably deserves.

Yee’s best friend is in a coma and tbh I am surprised he raced.

I am going to go for Duffy, GTB and Knibb on the day and Duffy, GTB and Potter for the series.
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