I thought this thread was going to be epic......but, not so much.

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

I've been using the Whoop since September. I love it.

Couple of things to keep in mind:
- Like other devices, it's a tool. Question is... why do you want one? If your goal is to have something that will help you modify your behavior for the better, then it does that. The whole idea of tracking recovery is to change your behavior so you recover better. I think the one thing that I have learned from it is how important sleep is to me. A habitual 4-6 hour sleeper (like many weekend warriors), i've learned just how detrimental it can be. Also, other things like alcohol, caffeine, etc. can affect sleep patterns and can be different for everyone. Tracking and seeing how they affect my recoverability has been very enlightening.

- It's not a pedometer. It doesn't track steps. If you want that, get something else. It's a monitor that's designed with recovery in mind (see bullet above).

- It can be used to broadcast your heartrate to your other favorite device(s). It can do so via Bluetooth, but not ANT+.

- The only thing that I disagree with is the "Recovery" score. It's supposed to be how "ready" you are for additional stress. I can be green, but feel like crap (not recovered) and I can be red, but feel great. However, even though I am green and feel like crap, it's telling me that according to my cardiovascular (HRV), breathing, rest, etc, that my body is ready to take on additional stress. Likewise, a red score doesn't mean you should sit your butt on the couch, it just means that you may not have the greatest workout. Again, it's a tool, not gospel.

The Whoop folks have a bunch of GREAT podcasts that give you the science and explanation behind the scores, what they mean, how to act upon them, and what HRV is all about. I wore mine for a week or two but even though it was giving me all sorts of great stats, I didn't know what to do with all of the data. How was it actionable?? There's where the podcasts really, really helped.

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http://www.SpeedyLizard.com

I’ve wanted one for a couple years. I just can’t get on board with the subscription model.

30 a month for what it does seems steep. I’d rather pay 300 for the devise...I understand from whoops perspective why they would use a subscription model though.

I used it for a year, think its an over marketed piece of crap back by bro science. Save your money. DCRainmaker had a good review.
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/...platform-review.html

I got one two days ago. HRV is not bro science. I have no comment on the whoop so far though except I don’t love wearing it to bed. Here’s a video I liked on the topic.

https://www.youtube.com/...bmWSBpMqmgc&t=2s

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

I have to agree. For the price you pay as a subscription model you get a sub par optical heart rate sensor that you cannot really rely on for training etc.
I was tempted to try it because apart from the Oura ring there are not many options out there for more passive daily HRV tracking, but that subscription model put me off big time.
I would not say that HRV monitoring is "bro science", but you can tell they pour most of their money into slick advertising etc rather than a decent product....

I know HRV is not bro science, the Whoop itself is bro science. Ask yourself how can a wrist wearable measure HRV to the millisecond when it has trouble spiking your HR when using a lawnmower. The Whoop doesn't give the user their HRV, it gives them an arbitrary recovery number that means nothing. A true HRV would be given in RMSSD, the Whoop does not.
I found that the score means nothing, I felt great when my score was shit and vice versa. I skipped out on days when the whoop said to limit intensity and probably should have manned up and just went ahead as planned.
I hope you gain what you expect from it. I did like the sleep tracking, that was about it. Now I just put a Fitbit Inspire HR on right before bed, and take it off in the morning, cost me $79 or so, no monthly fee etc.

Yeah, I wore it for about a year, wasn't that impressed, and quit.

Recovery number had an approximate correlation to my physical state at times, but was just way wrong too often to justify the price.

It only measures your HRV at night during your first REM cycle. That's the only way to make it repeatable, since as you mentioned, any sort of strain can spike your heart rate.

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http://www.SpeedyLizard.com

The recovery score is largely related to the HRV measurement, at least it is very heavily weighted to it. It's not meant to be a "how do i feel" measure, instead it's supposed to be how prepared your body is ready for strain.

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http://www.SpeedyLizard.com

I don’t understand what you are saying about whoop HRV. It definitely gives you the HRV, and also their proprietary recovery score that uses HRV and other data. I agree that score is not that interesting/useful. Regarding accuracy, I agree that’s a concern, especially after reading DC rainmakers review, but the HRV is calculated at night in bed, a scenario where it at least has a chance of working.

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

Changing topics slight. Is there a way to use/trick WHOOP into receiving HR data from another device? Say a Scosche Rhythm24 as this can also do Heart Rate variability.

Everything I have seen and read indicates the WHOOP band is not technically up to demands required to work for athletes. It is good enough for 24x7 tracking at a desk job but as soon as you throw running or biking into the mix and it can't keep up. At the same time I have heard it would be a great tool if it was coupled to reliable data. If they allowed a software only option at 75% the current plan to account for not having to provide a device I would bite. But as long as the system is tied to unreliable hardware I can't see any value in it no matter the price.

Not to hijack, but what about the Oura ring? I believe the NBA got them for all the players as a pre-warning device for COVID.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

I believe the answer is a definitive no to linking data from a more accurate device. Speaking for myself, I just am completely disinterested in its measurement of my athletic strain, so the inaccuracy during activity doesn't bother me too much. The inability to edit some obvious mistakes might prove frustrating when/if they come up because it impacts some analytics around sleep. In any case, I'm much more interested in the sleep tracking and the overnight HRV measurement. I feel that it can get this stuff right, indeed the DC Rainmaker review linked to a study with some good results on this. It probably is too expensive for just these features, and eventually Garmin and/or other competitors will just add this stuff and whoop will be out of business.

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

I don't quite understand this. The primary use of HRV, per my understanding, is as a measure of the amount of stress on your body.

Why would HRV be more accurate at night? I didn't really notice much difference in overall HR monitoring accuracy between sleep and activity. Despite my criticism of Whoop, it was the most accurate wrist-based HRM I've used. Even compared to recent high-end Garmins.

Did you test it? It's just a truism of these wrist based monitors that they're more accurate when your HR is relatively steady and you're moving less. The article linked in the DC Rainmaker review did do some validation of such and claimed it was accurate for sleep measurement in the summary (didn't read the article). All of the sleep tracking uses HR too, not movement or anything else, so indeed if it isn't accurate even for sleep/low/no movement scenarios then it is truly garbage.

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

I had one for a year. I didn't test it vs. "ground truth" but I set a low bar : the best "wrist-based HRM" I've had. The other ones I've used, including the Garmin I have on right now, have occasional glaring inaccuracies. Like my actual pulse will be at like 150, and it says 70. The Whoop always seemed responsive and plausible during workouts (and all other times).

This stuff can all be individual, though. Maybe other wrist HRMs are just as good on other people. But I miss my Whoop for that accuracy (with the ability to broadcast).

I don't wear rings when working out - google degloving (super ick warning). Just on that alone, I wouldn't wear the Oura.

I've had my Whoop for 4 months. Like what others have said, it's a tool to inform you on how to recover better. If you're looking to use it as an HRM, i'ts probably not the best choice (although I've found it to be pretty accurate - it's usually within 5 beats peak and average compared to my chest strap).

Definitely listen to the podcasts - anything featuring Kristen and Emily. They do deep dives behind the science of Whoop and give you really good tips on how to improve your recovery scores. And also, how to use those recovery scores. What a lot of people seem to miss is that the goal isn't to be consistently green. Green is a sign that you're rested and a long string of greens likely means that you're not pushing yourself and you're not making any gains. Yellow is actually the sweet spot - you're applying stress to your body and it's responding and growing.

I don't use the recovery scores to guide my workouts (I have a coach and I do like those green boxes in TP). The only time I've used it was when I got a 3rd red day in a row. I took the day off - and it turns out Whoop was right, I needed that day. Without Whoop I would have likely just plowed on through my run because it was on my plan.

Sounds like mixed feelings so far. to answer some questions, yes, I'd be using the device to infomr recovery and mainly advice on hours of sleep needed and my level of strain when planning a days workout. thanks for all the feedback! I'l read the DCrainmaker article and the watch the youtube video that was posted.

I trust my Polar Vantage V more than the Whoop. The downside is that my Polar is much less comfortable to wear at night and I find it wakes me up due to discomfort on my wrist.

Whoop works well over all, but I've found that I have random anomalous recoveries that do not fit a trend. Whoop has the form factor correct, but not the accuracy.

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I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

Thought this was interesting ... on Saturday I did ‘six gaps’ in VT, accumulating ~400TSS despite 90deg heat. On Sunday I felt basically as if I’d done an Ironman. On Monday I got the Whoop. This is how my HRV has progressed. Now, I knew I was going to need some rest after that ride, so maybe this isn’t telling me anything I don’t know. It’s cool to see some data reinforcing the stress/recovery model. My hope is that this will eventually be able to inform timing and duration of recovery blocks. Obviously, it’s too new to me to tell.

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

Yeah this is the dealbreaker for me. As much as I want to have 24/7 monitoring, it's too uncomfortable to wear at watch at night. Not going to pay $30 a month to have an inaccurate device just because it's comfortable.

Nothing better than something that tells you right after waking up "today's shit, buddy", right
If you want to fuel anxiety then watch every second of your sleep, your nutrition, your recovery, your 24h HR and HRV and finally disconnect from your body feeling, go for it. 10/10