I really don’t care. He was an entertaining bike racer 15 years ago. I’ve moved on.

In a time when everybody was an unrepentant proven cheating barstard doper...

Not everyone. There were plenty who chose to retire rather than participate in that stuff.

I agree. I enjoyed watching him. I also enjoyed watching Lance, Jan, and Marco. Some great battles.

That may be true but they are names none of us know existed pretty much. All bar one rider that stood on the podium with Lance had a doping violation.

exactly the statement that they all at is not true !

it is however true that everyone that went along with being a cheap was at it

Messick will give him a big celebratory hug

I'm sick of reading this justification on every thread about doping.

That kind of comment not only demonstrates a complete ignorance of the situation at that time, but legitimises those people who doped then and arguably, by extension, people who dope now. It's just pure lazy thinking to want to lump everyone into the category, can't be bothered to try to understand what was actually going on, so just label everyone a doper to make it easier for your brain to comprehend.

Try reading the autobiography of a rider at that time, such as David Millar or Tyler Hamilton and you'll probably see things quite differently.

Yes I've read both and I'm not sure how my awareness shows ignorance? Both of those athletes are convicted dopers. I was an avid cycling fan through that whole era and unless we choose to forget that period ever existed we can't celebrate anything during that period as it is all stained. The point is why get bent as the OP has about Vino who doped in an era of systemic doping in cycling. It was what is was, we can't change the past and I do not condone the actions of any of them or the likes of Armstrong. We can only look forward and judge the here and now or those who have influenced the modern day. I don't see how you could think I condone those who dope now?

Or it could be that people that have followed cycling for the last two plus decades have simply moved on and are tired of the neverending discussion from those who think it should be rehashed ad infinitum. It's not being ignorant or legitimizing anything. It's simply understanding context.

Really, it's over and done. Why the need to admonish those who have moved on?

Well written

Is it over? All of my cycling friends believe it still goes on. It has tainted the sport for years to come.
When Lance, Vinny move to triathlons, it makes people wonder.

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Team Zoot So Cal

Hey, it's perfectly fair. The OP was admonished for daring bring it up. Why the need to admonish those who haven't moved on? It's game on. There are no safe spaces on ST! Someone who *really* was over it wouldn't have even clicked on the very transparently titled thread. The Vino apologists begged for attention, and got it. Everyone's happy.

Stained he is

People teated and still treat Carl Lewis as a hero

https://www.theguardian.com/...hletics.duncanmackay

https://www.theguardian.com/...irtiest-race-history

Lewis at the time hammered Johnson openly.

Vino guy from Russia, did it got caught, did not spend years pretending he didn't. Compared with Lewis and Armstong and the USOC.

I'd say not stained when compared to Americans