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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Vince@HED] [ In reply to ]
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And the feature story in Cycling news that profiled Cavendish's road bike:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/...olumbia-scott-addict





HED's 'Flamme Rouge'-edition front hubs feature a carbon fiber center section to shave a few grams.

:)


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HED. Cycling - Twitter @hedcycling - HED Wheel Selector iPhone App
Last edited by: Vince@HED: Jul 30, 10 6:58
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Vince@HED] [ In reply to ]
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For a moment there the discussion was getting ridiculous, thanks Johs from the intel.
Guess there is always at least two sides to the story.

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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [AFM] [ In reply to ]
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The Stinger 9 tested is the EXACT SAME ONE!!!! the customer can buy from us when they say they want to buy a Stinger 9. (im pretty sure I said that 2x already) It is the same one we sent you too.

We dont have 2 kinds of Stingers, one for testing and one for sale. The wheel tested is the wheel we sell


Thanks Vince,

Didn't see this thread until this morning. I've been dabbling in the Lavender Room and Politics Only forum on Road Bike Review. You think this is a tough crowd ??? (:-)

So there have never been any versions of the Stinger 9 rim sold. I thought that there was a narrow version sold early on but now only the C2 is available. Sorry about the 4X request but it is sort of a different question ?? (:-)

I happened to have the tire off my front Stinger 9 which I bought in 2009 supposedly as the C2 version. Here are some measurements:

Rim Depth - 90 mm

Width of Rim at ~ center of Brake Pad surface - 26.0 mm

Tire Bead Outside Width - 24.1 mm

Max Rim Width - 27.1 mm

Depth of Tire Bed - 4.6 mm

Width of RXL Pro Tubular - ~ 21.5 mm

Width of Vitt CX 21 (320 tpi) Tubular - ~ 21.5 mm

Width of Vitt Crono II 22 (320 tpi) Tubular - ~ 21.0 mm

Wondering if you could please check on these measurements against the Stinger 9 specs.

Thanks Alan. I'm curious too, since this "Depth of Tire Bed - 4.6 mm" is precisely what is VERY different than what Josh measured. The wheel you have is the only one that the guys at Zipp have been able to find. Though also narrower than what Josh found on that wheel, and seemingly narrower than the wheel that bartturner has (though not sure what he used to measure it).


"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp | Game Designer @ Zwift

Ask me about: 1st Endurance | Normatec - $100 off RAPP2019 | Zipp | Quarq | SRAM
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Vince@HED] [ In reply to ]
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Very pretty. That was a pre-Flanders profile. Are those the wheels he raced on?

Eganski tweets
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Vince@HED] [ In reply to ]
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I might be wrong but Zipp gets their carbon from overseas too. We get our rims from Taiwan but the carbon faring is made in Iowa, sent to Minnesota and them bonded to the rim by our guys. Then it is spoked, trued and sold

I think they have the same type of process too. Like I said, I might be wrong on that one

Nope, you are wrong. All wheels go from raw materials (excluding spokes) to production at Zipp's single facility in Speedway. The only exception is the bearings, which are Swiss. The lone exception to this WAS the "CSC/Team Issue" wheel which used a DT Swiss hoop. The raw materials come from a variety of places, including China.

Further, Zipp's clincher wheels are not a fairing bonded to a rim. It's an aluminum extrusion (with bead hooks) that is co-molded with the deeper carbon section. You can easily tell this because the spoke nipples anchor at the inner edge of the hoop, not into the aluminum extrusion. So it's a fully structural co-molded wheel, not a structural rim bonded to a fairing.

Lastly, you didn't answer the question about how or where the Stingers are made, since they are not a fairing bonded onto a rim. That's the Jets. The question was where are the Stinger series wheels made.

EDIT: Quick edit, because I forgot the new 101s. The hoop is rolled and extruded in Taiwan. The clincher extrusions are also now rolled and extruded and welded (but not drilled or anodized or post-machined) there as well, a change that happened ~4 years ago when Zipp's only source for that work closed up shop stateside.

Complete breakdown of materials:
- US sourced carbon and resin, which is shipped frozen to Speedway and fabricated into rims.
- Carbon and resin are manufactured from raw polymers in California and Utah.
- Non-carbon composite materials, mainly Silicon Carbide and Boron from Ohio and New Jersey.
- ALL raw materials carry AS or QS certifications.
- Aluminum (for hubs, etc. - not for the extrusions) is sourced from Lafayette Indiana and completely machined, anodized and finished in Speedway.
- All mold tooling, presses and manufacturing equipment are designed in Speedway, and fabricated within the border of Indiana.
- Decals are printed in Indiana on 3M films produced in Minnesota.

The only foreign sourced components in a Zipp wheelset are spokes and nipples from Belgium, bearings from Switzerland, and - in the case of the co-molded clinchers (so the "regular" 404 clincher, for example, but not the 404 CC) and the 101 - the rim extrusion (or hoop in the 101's case) from Taiwan. And all hub and wheel assembly is done in Speedway.


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Ask me about: 1st Endurance | Normatec - $100 off RAPP2019 | Zipp | Quarq | SRAM
Last edited by: Rappstar: Jul 30, 10 7:55
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Alan. I'm curious too, since this "Depth of Tire Bed - 4.6 mm" is precisely what is VERY different than what Josh measured. The wheel you have is the only one that the guys at Zipp have been able to find. Though also narrower than what Josh found on that wheel, and seemingly narrower than the wheel that bartturner has (though not sure what he used to measure it).


Since you highlighted the Depth of the Tire Bed I remeasured - it is actually closer to 5.0 mm. There is some residual glue on the rim which I didn't bother to correct for. I'll fix that above as well.

I have a Vernier caliper as well but with a mechanical dial readout.
Last edited by: AFM: Jul 30, 10 7:48
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry, I did forget to answer the question. The Stingers are made overseas. You are correct, the Jets are fabricated here.


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HED. Cycling - Twitter @hedcycling - HED Wheel Selector iPhone App
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Vince@HED] [ In reply to ]
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Nah, its all good. Its fun.

You are correct about 2 yrs ago our Stigners, heck all of our wheels were the 19mm variety. They had the graphics that were clearcoated into the carbon.

That's the Stinger 90. It appears that there are actually 2 versions of the Stinger 9 though. Al's wheel doesn't measure the same as the current one (the one I have has the same dimensions as Al's).

I had actually read that there was a running change/redesign on the Stinger 9. If I had to guess, I'm guessing you guys didn't make a big deal about it in an effort to help move the older stock?
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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OK, you were right, I was wrong. That wheel is different than the one I have. Yes, there are brake fitment issues with it. It seems to be the same width now as the S6.

BTW, with the new Zipp Tangente brake pads, the HED's fit perfectly. There's a little irony...
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [roady] [ In reply to ]
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OK, you were right, I was wrong. That wheel is different than the one I have. Yes, there are brake fitment issues with it. It seems to be the same width now as the S6.

BTW, with the new Zipp Tangente brake pads, the HED's fit perfectly. There's a little irony...

Thank you. I promise that if - and WHEN - I am wrong (I will be), I'll say likewise.

Ironically, I actually was thinking precisely of the very low-profile Tangente pads when I wrote "new STOCK pads" as the criterion for wheels not fitting. So I'm not surprised by that, but do find it pretty ironic.


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Ask me about: 1st Endurance | Normatec - $100 off RAPP2019 | Zipp | Quarq | SRAM
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [roady] [ In reply to ]
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Nah, its all good. Its fun.

You are correct about 2 yrs ago our Stigners, heck all of our wheels were the 19mm variety. They had the graphics that were clearcoated into the carbon.


That's the Stinger 90. It appears that there are actually 2 versions of the Stinger 9 though. Al's wheel doesn't measure the same as the current one (the one I have has the same dimensions as Al's).

I had actually read that there was a running change/redesign on the Stinger 9. If I had to guess, I'm guessing you guys didn't make a big deal about it in an effort to help move the older stock?


Oh great - so we have the Stinger 9 but we actually don't ?? How does this affect the aero performance ?? I remember about a year ago when looking at the Jet and Stinger disc I decided on the C2 Jet (on good advice from Jack) because it looked better in low wind conditions. Just after receiving the Jet Disc (and Stinger C2 9 front) HED changed the Stinger Disc data to indicate much better performance. I don't recall whether the Stinger 9 data changed as well ??

Hopefully Vince will clarify.
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [AFM] [ In reply to ]
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I don't recall whether the Stinger 9 data changed as well ??

They did. At one time, the S9 had much lower drag than the 6 at the middle yaw angles, then shot up over the 6 at high yaw. I remember this when I was considering both wheels. At some point, the drag curve changed and was lower than the 6 over all of the higher yaws (as it now appears on HED's site). This must be the newest iteration of the S9.

As far as the Stinger 90, I'm pretty sure that was a different wheel with a more narrow profile (though still pretty wide, IIRC). Vince will have to confirm that, though. I remember seeing drag curves for the Stinger 90 and the weren't nearly as good as the first S9, of that I'm sure.
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [roady] [ In reply to ]
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I don't recall whether the Stinger 9 data changed as well ??


They did. At one time, the S9 had much lower drag than the 6 at the middle yaw angles, then shot up over the 6 at high yaw. I remember this when I was considering both wheels. At some point, the drag curve changed and was lower than the 6 over all of the higher yaws (as it now appears on HED's site). This must be the newest iteration of the S9.

As far as the Stinger 90, I'm pretty sure that was a different wheel with a more narrow profile (though still pretty wide, IIRC). Vince will have to confirm that, though. I remember seeing drag curves for the Stinger 90 and the weren't nearly as good as the first S9, of that I'm sure.


My wheel has stickers with H E D lettering and a 9 embedded in the left most vertical member of the H. So it looks like we may have the first and slower iteration ?? Possibly the data was changed on the Stinger 9 before I started looking at the data, I then ordered (actually got a good deal on the Jet/S9 set) but received the old and slower S9 version ?? Vince mentioned that the older and more narrow 90 mm Stingers had clearcoat over the graphics as did the older Zipp wheels.
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [AFM] [ In reply to ]
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Old wheel, 3 yrs ago give or take - 19mm


The new wheel (same one tested) is the one in the VN test

As far as the data goes, I will have to check on that for you. I have only been at HED. when the data for the new Stingers were published/posted online. I will ask around to see if we have the older data.

We did change the Stinger sticker design with the new wheels. The one with the 9 in the H is one of our newer designs.


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HED. Cycling - Twitter @hedcycling - HED Wheel Selector iPhone App
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Vince@HED] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Vince - please let us know what you find out.
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [AFM] [ In reply to ]
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You got it buddy!

It might be late on Sunday. I am headed to Ragbrai this weekend, leaving soon


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HED. Cycling - Twitter @hedcycling - HED Wheel Selector iPhone App
Last edited by: Vince@HED: Jul 30, 10 10:20
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Vince@HED] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Vince, I was wondering, where (in what country) are the newest hed stinger series wheels made?

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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Dark] [ In reply to ]
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They are made in Taiwan


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HED. Cycling - Twitter @hedcycling - HED Wheel Selector iPhone App
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Vince@HED] [ In reply to ]
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To clarify my post, I have nothing against HED. Prior to reading this thread, I assumed that Cav had been riding HED wheels for his wins in the TdF this year. Now I'm just confused.
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [JohnnySlimane] [ In reply to ]
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We sponsor the team, Zipp sponsors the rider


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HED. Cycling - Twitter @hedcycling - HED Wheel Selector iPhone App
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Dark] [ In reply to ]
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Geez, why does everyone care if the rim is made overseas or not?

I think all these wheels are fast, and unless you are losing your TT's/Ironman's by a couple of seconds, which 99.9% people here are not, it ain't gonna matter.
I firmly believe that if any of the wheels were noticeably faster than the other, then almost every pro cyclist would be using the same wheels, all re-badged with their sponsors logo.

I prefer to choose wheels that don't break. I understand from their marketing, that Zipp rims are supposed to now be stronger. But the fact that everyone I know personally that owned Zipps in the past (which admittedly is only about 10 people) broke them, prevents me from dropping my $$ on them.
On the other hand, I know many on Easton carbons, and a few on HED, and none have had a failure.. That's what matters to me...

flame suit.....on...
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [gibson00] [ In reply to ]
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Geez, why does everyone care if the rim is made overseas or not?

Lord only knows


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HED. Cycling - Twitter @hedcycling - HED Wheel Selector iPhone App
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [TTmo] [ In reply to ]
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Hello TTmo and All,

1080 front or back, or both?

Cheers,

Neal

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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1080 Front wheel. do not like at all, and others I know that had/have it don't like it too much either.
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [TTmo] [ In reply to ]
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1080 Front wheel. do not like at all, and others I know that had/have it don't like it too much either.


That wheel requires particular skills to be ridden efficiently, but for those that have those skills the 1080 front is an extremelly fast wheel... as the S9 is also.

Sergio

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Note: English is not my first language. Please read this translated post considering that.


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