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VeloVetta Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea - Updated!
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UPDATE 12/2 2018 - Check out Post 103 on page 5 for an update. Lots of progress! Check out update for... well an update! I'm adding new images here now that patent applications have been updated, but keeping the old ones below for posterity.



CFD comparison of conventional shoe (with no straps, boas, etc) vs. VeloVetta Shoe






Lower the heel lever to open the shoe.


New update on 10/14/2019 post 170: https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=7060332#p7060332


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Hey crowd - I've been waiting a long time to get your feedback on this. Now that the patents are filed and Dan has given me the go ahead, I can share it!
I've been working on a triathlon cycling shoe design that is very aerodynamic, easy to get on and off while on the bike, and very comfortable. Here is what it looks like. There are cables for the closure that you cannot see in the 3d renderings but you can see them in the photos of my "prototype".

There is a single panel that goes over the top of the foot that is tightened to secure the foot in the shoe. A lever on the heel is released which releases cables that go from the lever into the sole of the shoe, out the side of the sole and attach to the black plastic tabs on the sides of the closure panels. These cables are what pull that closure panel down tight over your foot. When the lever is pulled away from the heel, the closure panel loosens across the top of the foot.





The thumb knob you see on the top of the lever adjusts the tightness of the closure. You only have to do this once and it is set. When you put the shoe on, all you have to do is slam the lever toward the shoe and you're done.






Here is a photo of a prototype I made by attaching 3D printed parts to a Giro Empire as well as some hand-sewn components... I've tested it out on the bike for ease of entry/exit.

I've done a bunch of CFD modeling on this and the results are pretty stunning. I am not ready to say that they are necessarily "right" but I think they indicate that at least the aerodynamic drag reduction will be significant. The results to date indicate about a 124 gram (12 watts) reduction in drag at 22.4 mph compared to an idealized smooth conventional shoe with no closure mechanisms. (see description below). I have done some improvements to the design since I ran these simulations and I think I can get the drag reduction even bigger without making the shoe look absurd.


Kinetic energy imparted to the air in a shoe without the sole and heel shape modifications. This is an idealized shoe in that it has no closure mechanism. It is totally smooth. It does not even have the projections on the heel to make walking better, or a loop on the heel to help get the shoe on, so this really is a worst case comparison.


Kinetic energy imparted to the air in my shoe design.

The black strips you see on the side of the shoe are carbon fiber that is holding the shoe open so that your foot can easily slide in. They are flexible enough so that when you push the lever closed in the back they will wrap around your foot. The shoe is extremely comfortable - no pressure points. There is a very even and snug hold around the whole foot.

Rubber bands are highly recommended with this design (and I will include a hook point specifically for this) to hold the shoe in the 3 and 9 o'clock positions to avoid hitting the open lever on the ground. When you remove the shoe, and put your foot on top, it is also highly recommended to close the lever, also to avoid hitting it on the ground when you dismount.

What do you guys think? Would you use it? Is it compelling? Are there features I missed? Improvements to be made?

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
VeloVetta is developing AERO cycling shoes with CFD and wind tunnel testing.
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Last edited by: RowToTri: Oct 14, 19 11:58
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Plugging in the aero savings into my best bike split simulation for IM Boulder gets me 8:12 faster (edit - my previous math error had me at 10 watts saved and 6:50 faster - now it is 12 watts)

I understand this really seems like a lot. But that's what the simulations say.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
VeloVetta is developing AERO cycling shoes with CFD and wind tunnel testing.
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Last edited by: RowToTri: Jun 1, 18 9:48
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Does the knob on the back allow you to adjust the cable pull? So you can make it looser or tighter depending on sock usage?

Also, the side carbon piece: how would this feel when pedaling on top of the shoe just after T1 and before T2?

Very fine work!

Alex Arman

Strava
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [doublea334] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks!

Yes the knob allows you to adjust cable tension for different socks, or whatever.

When you put your foot on top of the shoe, the pressure will still cause it to fold down somewhat under your foot. Not as much as normal shoes. It's not super comfy, but it's not painful or anything and you can pedal just fine while you get to a spot where you can put your feet in.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
VeloVetta is developing AERO cycling shoes with CFD and wind tunnel testing.
InstagramFacebook
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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That is impressive. I love it. And need some new racing shoes. Full carbon sole, super stiff, light, etc. Checks all those boxes I presume?

Side note: You just reinforced the fact that I am dramatically underachieving in my spare time.
Side note 2: I see your name often and just read your bio. Worked on ISS for NASA and design awesome drag reducing tri shoes on the side? Yikes. You are a beast.
Side note 3: I'm going to go take a good hard look in the mirror and try to remain positive :)
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [yrebetta] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks! It may be a tiny bit heavier than the lightest shoes but they will still be very light. Also as stiff as you could ever want! Of course full carbon sole!

Geez, please do not make my bio out to be more impressive than it is or use it to judge yourself.... I have plenty of flaws and plenty of failures. I don't really list those on the bio.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
VeloVetta is developing AERO cycling shoes with CFD and wind tunnel testing.
InstagramFacebook
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Very nice. If you ask me, shoes are the last area for big potential improvements.

One thing I notice is all the pedal turbulence. Have you tried modeling something like the Speedplays?

Do you have any CDF images showing a frontal view? It looks like a very high pressure area on the toe. Would a smoother toe box or building some additional arch into the lace cover help?
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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I've noticed all those things too.

I have done some work with the speedplays in CFD, but I do not yet have a good design that is a real benefit from just attaching them to this standard design. I think I will find one though. I have some more ideas. There have been surprising unintended consequences when trying to improve airflow in front of and around the cleat.

I did a little work with ridging the top of the shoe. It did make a very small improvement. I don't think it is enough to incorporate into the design.

I have not experimented with different toe shapes, but I do plan to.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
VeloVetta is developing AERO cycling shoes with CFD and wind tunnel testing.
InstagramFacebook
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Very impressed ... :-)

They look way to fast for me but here's an idea with me thinking out loud - Maybe consider an interchangeable 3D printed 'patch' to seamlessly integrate the back of common type pedal systems with the back half of the sole / fin ?

I guess a good integration with the back of a Keo would make for a very slick underside.

WD :-)
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Here are some more CFD images:


Streamlines color coded for air velocity. You can see there is a lot of turbulence and slow air behind the shoe.



Here you can see there is less turbulence and faster air behind the modified shoe.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
VeloVetta is developing AERO cycling shoes with CFD and wind tunnel testing.
InstagramFacebook
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Hello RowToTri and All,

Looks great!

When we tested in the LSWT it was a bit surprising how effective our streamlining the pedal/ shoe interface was in reducing drag.

Within the rules ........... the more you can elongate and streamline the heel tensioning device the more effective the drag reduction ... the blunt heel causes a lot of drag.

You can see in the picture below how the Speedplay pedal retracts like an aircraft wheel into the shoe. Also this design has a sole you can run on without slipping.

https://www.shop.view-speed.com/...ion-610098715986.htm



Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [WD Pro] [ In reply to ]
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That can be done but I want to maintain the fore-aft adjustability of cleat placement and that would eliminate it.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
VeloVetta is developing AERO cycling shoes with CFD and wind tunnel testing.
InstagramFacebook
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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Hey,

Yes, I've seen this photo before. It's pretty slick, but I think it can only be a custom job because it eliminates all adjustability. I'd like this shoe to work for lots of people out of the box.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
VeloVetta is developing AERO cycling shoes with CFD and wind tunnel testing.
InstagramFacebook
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
That can be done but I want to maintain the fore-aft adjustability of cleat placement and that would eliminate it.

Maybe the insert is adjustable as per the cleat and the back part is purposely made long and sacrificial - Set the cleat to suit the rider then trim the back of the insert to mate with the shoe ?

I suppose it could even be graduated to suit the cleat placement so if the cleat is set on line 'x' on the sole then you trim the back of the insert off also at line 'x ' on the insert :-) (if that makes sense lol)

WD :-)
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [WD Pro] [ In reply to ]
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Ya I think something along those lines may be doable. I'll have to play around with it.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
VeloVetta is developing AERO cycling shoes with CFD and wind tunnel testing.
InstagramFacebook
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Hello RowToTri and All,

Our design only works with Speedplay pedals .... but the sole we add has no effect on any existing adjustments .... as pedal adjustments... (like float adjustment) ... or shoe adjustments like laces, zippers, or other means of shoe to foot fitment.

The purpose of the View-Speed shoe modification is to help insure that the cyclists will not slip and fall ... or mark up the floor with cleats ..... the aero advantages are inherent to the design but are not primary to the design.

http://road.cc/...-ucis-crono-shoe-ban



Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [yrebetta] [ In reply to ]
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yrebetta wrote:

Side note: You just reinforced the fact that I am dramatically underachieving in my spare time.

Umm yeah, that makes two of us! And I started out in this life with so much potential :)

Count me in as a shoe buyer!
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Adjustable on-the-fly for things like foot swelling on longer rides?

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

http://www.mjolnircycles.com/
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [brider] [ In reply to ]
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You would pull the buckle open, twist the knob, then close the buckle again.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
VeloVetta is developing AERO cycling shoes with CFD and wind tunnel testing.
InstagramFacebook
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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But can the clear position on the sole be moved fore-aft and side to side?

Yeah as shown I think this is UCI illegal. The rounded part of the sole behind the cleat is designed to be easily removable, leaving a normal flat sole underneath. This may be enough to make it UCI legal, even though the buckle on the heel is shaped aerodynamically. It is a functional part.

A road racer could use the whole setup for most of his/her local races and when/if they enter something that has UCI requirements they can remove that part.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
VeloVetta is developing AERO cycling shoes with CFD and wind tunnel testing.
InstagramFacebook
Last edited by: RowToTri: May 31, 18 16:45
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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I love the concept. A few ideas for you:

  1. Consider some sort of a thin "memory meta" or spring for the top of the shoe to hold it open. It's very annoying when the top of the shoe gets matted down from pedaling on top of it and you have to twist and fiddle with you toes to get your foot "in" the shoe.
  2. The more you build up the center of the shoe the faster it will be (at least in my mind). My theory here is that it's better to direct air to the side of the shoe than it is to direct it up toward the shin with any sort of shape that is a "scoop".
  3. Please make a wide version! I know the extra lasts will increase your investment but wide-fit tri shoes are so hard to come by that you'd likely have the market to yourself by default.

I'm going to PM you some other stuff.
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
I love the concept. A few ideas for you:

  1. Consider some sort of a thin "memory meta" or spring for the top of the shoe to hold it open. It's very annoying when the top of the shoe gets matted down from pedaling on top of it and you have to twist and fiddle with you toes to get your foot "in" the shoe.
  2. The more you build up the center of the shoe the faster it will be (at least in my mind). My theory here is that it's better to direct air to the side of the shoe than it is to direct it up toward the shin with any sort of shape that is a "scoop".
  3. Please make a wide version! I know the extra lasts will increase your investment but wide-fit tri shoes are so hard to come by that you'd likely have the market to yourself by default.

I'm going to PM you some other stuff.

Thanks for the suggestions.


1: This is what the carbon strips on the side of the shoe do, if I understand you correctly.

2: I did some simulations with this and surprisingly it made very little difference. If you make the ridge deep enough to make a real difference you end up with weird things going on at the top near your shin.

3: This will be a difficult business decision. Even if I make 6,000 pairs in the first run in a single width, some sizes would be made in such small quantities that making tooling for them might be uneconomical. Adding a second width greatly compounds the issue.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
VeloVetta is developing AERO cycling shoes with CFD and wind tunnel testing.
InstagramFacebook
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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[quote]Please make a wide version! I know the extra lasts will increase your investment but wide-fit tri shoes are so hard to come by that you'd likely have the market to yourself by default.[/quote]


I second and third that. If you can add in narrow heels and really high arches I'd be tempted. It'll take me a lot to pry me away from my 10yo custom D2's but these look sweet.

If you ever want to get them in A2 wind tunnel lmk.

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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I may take you up on A2 :)

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
VeloVetta is developing AERO cycling shoes with CFD and wind tunnel testing.
InstagramFacebook
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Re: Aero Triathlon Bike Shoe Design Idea [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Since no else has asked. I’m curious.

What is your estimated retail price?
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