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VASA Erg readouts vs real world performance
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tri4funInVegas
Nov 23, 18 10:58
Post #1 of 13 (2525 views)
For those with a Vasa Erg with power readouts, how accurately do you think the speed and distance correlate with your real world swimming?

I just got it and I put it on level 2 and it burns a lot in my shoulders that I can only swim about 200m before taking a short break where I can easily swim 2000m in a normal workout. Speed says it's 1:50/100m at about 60W in freestyle where I think I would probably be closer to 1:55/100 with a pull buoy but probably 2:15 without so clearly my body position could use some work. However, I'm a big fan of working out individual components so if my shoulders/arms are capable of 1:20/100m on the erg does this mean that I'll be able to swim at this pace after fixing my body position?

Either way it feels like a great workout though I'd love to know what other people see in their actual swim times vs Vasa Erg readout so if I'm getting down to 1:20/100m I can expect to touch a 22min 1500m swim instead of the 30min I have now during an Olympic race.
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Re: VASA Erg readouts vs real world performance [tri4funInVegas] [ In reply to ]
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cdw
Nov 23, 18 11:32
Post #2 of 13 (2508 views)
I suspect if you could swim open water in a perfectly straight line for the exact distance then you might have comparable times. It is like comparing pool times and open water times. For some folks it is probably similar and others, not so much. In my only full season of Vasa-only "swim training," my end of the year race came around and the water was unseasonably warm, so it was non-wetsuit. I swam a few minutes slower than expected, but still better than any other tri-swim I had ever done. I think my Vasa estimated pace and wetsuit open-water pace would have been close. Vasa-only training works a lot better on race day with a wetsuit because it replicates what you are actually doing. I was a 30-minute wetsuit swimmer that swam 27 in that non-wetsuit race because I had greater fitness from greater consistency in training.
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Re: VASA Erg readouts vs real world performance [tri4funInVegas] [ In reply to ]
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sgy
Nov 23, 18 13:37
Post #3 of 13 (2463 views)
I ask myself the same question. So far my swim time on Vasa corresponds quite well with my open water swim time when I use the 3800m benchmark.
At about 90W average I manage to do 3800m on the Vasa (setting 3) in aboit an hour. That is also what I would swim in a wetsuit openwater swim at same intensity.
Imo setting 3 is the setting that corresponds most with real water swimming.
Maybe some other Vasa user can comment and provide insight in Vasa vs water swim times?
Sam
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Re: VASA Erg readouts vs real world performance [sgy] [ In reply to ]
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wincrewser
Nov 23, 18 15:05
Post #4 of 13 (2437 views)
Can you point me to some structured Vasa based workouts? I have a Vasa on the way and not sure if I should follow my typical swim workout (I am using Swim Smooth), something totally different or somewhere in between. I have read about the trainerroad workouts, but there only seems to be one on the one team page.
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Re: VASA Erg readouts vs real world performance [tri4funInVegas] [ In reply to ]
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Chan
Nov 23, 18 15:23
Post #5 of 13 (2428 views)
BOP swimmer here but yes my VASA speed for the most past corresponds to my pool swim speed. Haven't worked on my speed on the VASA just endurance so can't speak yet on if my faster speed on the VASA would match swim speed.
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Re: VASA Erg readouts vs real world performance [tri4funInVegas] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir
Nov 23, 18 18:55
Post #6 of 13 (2372 views)
I've used mine for several years now and am very happy with the results and it's a vital piece for my training.

I'd say the vasa pace is at best a reasonable estimate of pool pace but for sure don't expect it to match up. I mainly use the pace or power to compare to other vasa workouts and progress- if I'm stronger on vasa I will be stronger in the pool but I can't just do math to reliably say by how much. I do swimming pools regularly so I rely on pool pacing for race estimation.

I think you will figure out your correlations in vasa vs pool vs ows pace and can adjust as is.

Its a great tool, but prepare for some suffering to really improve!
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Re: VASA Erg readouts vs real world performance [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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tri4funInVegas
Nov 23, 18 19:05
Post #7 of 13 (2360 views)
Well if it correlates to pool time I'm happy. My pool and ow times are similar as sighting is pretty natural to me. I know with a swim bouy I'm much faster so I will fix that with body position drills but at the end of the day you also need a good catch and turnover rate to make the speed. It's very encouraging to see it's possible for me to swim 1.10/100m on the Vasa going all out but I have never swam that fast in the pool even with fins and paddles.
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Re: VASA Erg readouts vs real world performance [tri4funInVegas] [ In reply to ]
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Chan
Nov 23, 18 19:10
Post #8 of 13 (2352 views)
The person who sold me my vasa was swimming in the 1.1X/100m
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Re: VASA Erg readouts vs real world performance [tri4funInVegas] [ In reply to ]
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ejd_mil
Nov 23, 18 19:21
Post #9 of 13 (2344 views)
Great question.

I think it comes down to your body position in the water vs strength.

For me, my pool times are much faster than Vasa erg times... And my OW times are somewhat faster than Vasa times.

Sam responded above that he averages 90 watts for about a 30 min HIM / 60 min HIM swim. I am in the low 70s for the same time. The delta, in my mind, is body position (with Sam being mucho stronger than me!).

After you get past that the metrics are different, you will be able to estimate your pool / OWS times based on your Vasa power (at least that has been my experience after training on it for multiple years).

Hope this helps
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Re: VASA Erg readouts vs real world performance [ejd_mil] [ In reply to ]
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tri4funInVegas
Nov 23, 18 19:56
Post #10 of 13 (2325 views)
Great stuff - lots of good info here. It's good to get more Vasa swimmer power levels vs swim times in the pool.

On the bike better aero will get you faster for the same power but at the end of the day if you're doing 400w ftp you're prob crazy fast by most standards and if over 300w you're decently strong.

I'm only doing about 60w for 15mins after 3 sessions so if I shoot for 70w for an hr then I know I'm in reasonable pull strength and if I can get to 90w for an hr I would be in very good shape.

Again something to shoot for is the beauty of readouts. It's a great training tool in that if you know you're getting enough power then you just need to work on body position drills and if you're body position is good you know what you need to do to keep your pace the same by keeping strength.

I would be very happy with 1.30/100m and I can work on both power and position without guessing which one is the limiting factor.
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Re: VASA Erg readouts vs real world performance [tri4funInVegas] [ In reply to ]
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tri4funInVegas
Nov 23, 18 20:10
Post #11 of 13 (2313 views)
As an aside, I was practicing more this evening and could easily hit 110W and 1:23/100m by forcing my elbows to be rotated upwards with little extra perceived cardio effort but my arms eventually got tired for being held up in what I deem an awkward position so definitely promising. What I love is the instantaneous feedback. In the pool at best I only know after I complete a set how fast I went but with small corrections I can tell if my power or pace goes up and I just need to build endurance to hold those positions.
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Re: VASA Erg readouts vs real world performance [tri4funInVegas] [ In reply to ]
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karmatraining
Nov 24, 18 3:38
Post #12 of 13 (2258 views)
To add another datum point into the mix, I find that the SwimErg is roughly 10s slower than my scm pool times so if I am swimming 1:20 effort in the pool the same effort produces 1:30 pace on the Erg. I would say 5 of those seconds come from flip turns (I am not the greatest at flip turns but can do them) and the other 5s body position and form factors. In the OW, my Vasa times and RPE line up fairly well to my efforts without a wetsuit.
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Re: VASA Erg readouts vs real world performance [karmatraining] [ In reply to ]
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ericlambi
Nov 24, 18 6:09
Post #13 of 13 (2225 views)
I've not paid much attention to this and I don't use my VASA very much, but my last couple workouts have been (according to training peaks) 1:42-1:44 per 100yds on door 2. I'm usually averaging mid 50s watts for that. I pull in the pool a couple sec/100scy faster than that, swim an additional couple sec/100scy faster than that. So pretty close, but a little slower than real life. The VASA doesn't know anything about height, weight, or swimming form/mechanics, so it's accuracy has to be limited in this regard.
Dimond Bikes Superfan
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