There:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...ng_program_1006.html


H

will European IM times come down, or will less Europeans compete at Kona?

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I thought the EPO was for their kidney failure .... hmmmm .... maybe they won't be coming to Kona anymore;-)
Dave

Are they going to be giving more specifics? Is this urine or blood? What happens if you refuse? etc...

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Ride Scoozy Electric Bicycles
http://www.RideScoozy.com

That's not very clear. What's an "elite age group athlete"? One who has qualified for their WC races? Or is it something else?

I realize it is just a press release, but why use these undefined terms?

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"Go yell at an M&M"

it sounds like AG'ers that qualify for hawaii, not every AG at every race

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Ride Scoozy Electric Bicycles
http://www.RideScoozy.com

There are so many holes in this announcement that it is not even funny. I guarantee you that they have not thought this out for one minute, and have no idea of the ramifications of what they are trying to do. I applaude that they want to do it, but the folks in charge there have not one clue to the can of worms they have opened up there. They will very soon though, and my guess is that they will have to back peddle severly on this announcement for this year at least...

Let me start the questions, what policy do the AG'er have in regards to there constant whereabouts??Pros have to account for every week of the year, in and out of competition.

What is an elite AG'er?? Those that qualify for Kona, then we are talking about 1500 folds..

What are the banned drugs for AG'er, same as pros??? A ton of them use EPO, testerone, HGH, and many have prescriptions for them. Pros can get TUE's for some drugs, but not the biggies here. WIll AG'ers have a different list??

Do you bust AG'ers for pot?? We bust the pros for it..

THere are so many more questions that I will leave it to you all to fill in the blanks...Guaranteed that Ironman has not answered any of them, because they have not thought to ask them yet...

But they will now....(-;

If that is the case, then they should have just said "professionals and those AGers who qualify for Kona or Clearwater," right? Why introduce the nebulous "elite AGer" term?

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Very interesting.

Very good that they showing the will to step it up. Will be even better when they implement it.

Questions that come to mind:
Who is paying for this.
All pros qualified for Hawaii? ALL pros? IM Germany has a pretty buffed out testing protocol and because it is so expensive they limit the pro field, because otherwise it would be not affordable. Looking at the number of pros racing Hawaii I would think that testing will cost around 2 to 5 million dollars.

Agegroupers? Holy smokes...really? How? do 1500 agegroupers have to let a central agency know about their whereabouts at all time? Who is paying for that testing?

I would like it very much if they would put the foot down on he pros. Testing the AGers will be more a media-hype then real deterrend.

Thoughts?

Axel

same thoughts...

Isn't that what they mean by "either of the World Championships"?

maybe they are just going to throw it in there with our government run health care, you are required to send your exact location and what you are doing to the "Triathlon Czar"

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Ride Scoozy Electric Bicycles
http://www.RideScoozy.com

It's the term "elite age grouper" that is fuzzy, not which races they are referencing. If they mean "everyone who qualfied for either of the World Championships" then they should have left out the "elite age grouper" bit.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Inquiring minds want to know:



Are you more likely to get tested if you wear compression socks?

I hope they get something started. I am not surprised they do not have all the questions answered who in the real world does when they start out at something. I doubt it will end up having out of competition testing for Elite Agers or World Championship qualifiers, but hopefully it is a start.

Will it work, I do not know but we are never at a loss for critics to jump all over a group trying to improve or show some initiative.

Peace,
RF

+1

I think this might be a step in the right direction - they just need to answer some lingering questions. I also hope the follow the USADA model and post all test statistics on the internet.

Otherwise, it's just another dog-n-pony show.

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http://twitter.com/tridave

| Bonzai Sports | Blue Seventy | First Endurance |

Some other questions. Assume the elite age grouper is a lawyer and heading off to court. Drug Tester shows up at the door. Lawyer heads to court without depositng sample because, after all, that's what they do for a living. Substitute any other job for this where the elite age grouper actually needs to go to work. Or drive their kid to sports practice or school. Is the elite age grouper/lawyer now going to be suspended?

I don't think you can run even a marginally effective testing program without having consequences if the athlete refuses to take a test. For a professional athlete, taking tests is part of making a living. But, it's not exactly fair to penalize elite age groupers in any of these circumstances (or countless others) either. So, the testing program is either going to be ineffective or incredibly unfair.

I think all elite/AG competitors should have to pay for their own extensive testing if they place in the top of their age group. That would help me beat some of them that keep giving me grief as many would be afraid to cross the finish line for fear of the economic consequences. I will gladly pay for any required victory confirmation testing ;-) Bring on the testing!
Dave

I just wish I was good enough to qualify to get tested.

Wait a minute...maybe if I doped I'd be good enough...then I'd get tested and caught...
then I'd rack up money selling my book.

Ok, maybe not.

-Jot

Maybe out of competition testing for AGers is going to end up being somewhat difficult to do. But testing of all AG winners should, if not already being done, happen.

Sadly, I find it hard to accept that all AG athletes are clean.

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Trust me I’m a doctor!
Well, I have a PhD :-)

as you might guess, i have thought a LOT about AG drug testing. and we've batted it around a lot here (many of you have thought about it a lot too). paula newby-fraser called me right back and answered a bunch of questions i posed. i think i can answer quite a few of them now because of her kind gesture, and i published my own OPED about this that'll answer some of your questions, i think.

if you have any more questions, ask here, and i might be able to answer them.

i think the whole thing is GREAT. i really applaud what they're doing. but the OOC testing of AGers, this may prove to be the afghanistan of the operation. this has risk painted all over it, in my view. but what WTC has achieved is more than noteworthy, it's landmark. a panel to adjudicate its own TUEs, that's just so unheard of. no organization in sport has ever gotten through anything like that. and, not just for AGers, but for pros.

this, because there are so many orphaned pro athletes. if you're a german or an aussie living full time in the U.S., and you carry a USAT license but you're still a citizen of your the country from which you emigrated, and if you don't race ITU events, nobody is going to adjudicate your TUE, nobody is going to put you on its OOC pool. so, WTC got the right to operate several of the functions that an anti-doping org usually has reserved for it.

the press release that gets picked up by whatever media organizations get it will not understand how breakthrough this is.

but that AG program. that's going to be fun to watch ;-)

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Can you point to a place where an age grouper goes about to educate himself about those policies? Any link to a list of banned substances?

Comments below are regarding AGers, not the pros.

This is truly sad, and it is a great reason for people to move away from WTC events. Who cares if an AGer dopes? I really don't, even if he beats me. There is no prize money on the line.

However, whether or not we should catch the cheaters is besides the point. If there was a 100% fool-proof test for race-day, then sure, implement it as long as the costs are low.

What are the costs associated with this program? What is the return on investment for WTC? As a sales guy, there is no way I'm going to take the time to log-in to some governing body website to let that body know my where-abouts at all times. Heck, I have a hard enough time ensuring I am up to date with Salesforce.com--our CRM software.

Lets say I have to head out of town on 24 hours notice for work and I get selected for a test. Guess what? I fail. Now I am essentially labeled the same as a doper.

Character defamation is something which the defamed and their attorneys take quite seriously. If WTC or USADA comes out and says I am a doper just because I went on a business trip, then they better be prepared for the lawsuits which will ensue.

What right does WTC have to intrude on my life, on my right to privacy, on a daily basis? If I were competing for income from WCT, then I could see where they want to ensure fair competition. However, this is absolutely ludicrous. Age Groupers really need to band together to ensure our rights to privacy our protected.

Also, if I am sick and need to get better, am I going to consult the list of banned substances, or am I going to down some NyQuil at night, so I get some rest for a sales presentation the following day? You bet I will take the NyQuil. What if NyQuil has some ingredient which is banned? Busted.

I can sort of see the intent and desire of WCT; however, the implementation is poor. Shame on WCT for invading our rights to privacy.

this is the link, the download is on the right.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman