http://www.outsideonline.com/...b-Rats.html?page=all

"Equally interesting is what the foundation doesn’t do. Most people—including nearly everybody I surveyed while reporting this story—assume that Livestrong funnels large amounts of money into cancer research. Nope. The foundation gave out a total of $20 million in research grants between 1998 and 2005, the year it began phasing out its support of hard science. A note on the foundation’s website informs visitors that, as of 2010, it no longer even accepts research proposals."

We do know they haven't done anything because those riders listed above are still racing and have not received a letter from USADA stating they will be placed under investigation. We know those things.

And yes, this is a witch hunt if I would say so myself.

Thats precisely why i don't like him.

When he was riding he complained that he was clean and the doping rules were so unfair to clean riders because he couldn't even get a anti histimine shot for a bee sting.

Latter when he wasn't a rider he proclaimed his team would be pure and clean and they would have nothing to do wiuth doping,
The he admitted yes I doped

Then he started hiring ex dopers

Now that same system that was so bad when he is a rider supposedly caught one of his current riders on a technicality. What does he do, Fire him. Why not protest ar appeal to CAS or keep paying him or anything but abandoning him if he thinks its innocent.

I see him making big pronouncements about how unfair the system is as a rider and DS. I don't see him ever actually doing anything that hurts his interests in the least to actually stand up for his pronouncments

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Styrrell

Clearly your SAT score weren't up to par.

When you come back to reality let us know.

No, you still don't get it. The letter that went out wasnt an investigation, it was a finding of charges. the investigation is already over at that point. Lance didnt get a letter he was under investigation either, until they charged him. With the others, they may not have had enough evidence to bring charges. Plus, if they were under investigation, there isnt a rule in place to stop them from racing in cycling. Its why Contador raced all season last year. That rule is only in WTC. If theyd been charged, we would have found out, because in that case theyd have at least have a provisional suspension which they could choose to fight or not, and then wed know that too

My SAT score, geez now I know why I do not know history!.....I always thought your were a friggen genius. ......In my best Allen Iverson voice....." We're talking SAT scores, yes Sat scores people"......"Sat scores"......Hint I lived through one era we are talking. Geez Rnfro, with all honesty you need to read some

Perhaps you are un familiar with the usage of : and ::
Hint it does not mean =.

"Let me put it another way, if Lance won and he wasn't clean (as has been said, or alluded to by so many) there is no way in hell that Kristin Armstrong is clean. "

What in god's name are you talking about? How the hell does Kristin have anything at all to do with any of this nonsense? Are you so incredibly uninformed that you think she's somehow related to Lance, or did you just pick a name out of a hat to throw mud at?

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He did. when Alex originally got fired, it was from HTC. JV hired him, took him on and and helped him when UCI appealed the original suspension being thrown out to CAS. UCI basically got away with one because they violated their own policies and WADAs for that matter in the original case due to paperwork and shouldn't have been able to pursue the point. But thats neither here nor there, UCI is the most corrupt organization Ive ever seen. JV knew it was a risk to take him on, but did knowing that if he earned UCI points toward next season and got suspended, he's lose those UCI points towards next years license. Obviously unless Ryder tests positive, he's not worried about next years license anymore, but when he signed Alex he had no idea.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/...rry-to-miss-olympics

I believe (and don't necessarily agree) that he is saying she is just as dominant at an advanced age and having just come out of retirement. Therefore if age + dominance+rapid fitness after a break = drugs that formula applies.

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Styrrell

This is the one mistake I give people a pass on; the ladies both have the same unique spelling of Kristin that when she did a recent video chat, she said her manager has to keep in touch with Lances ex because they get each others fan mail and requests for appearances.

No, I know that they are in no way related.

I just wanted to compare Lance to a female cyclist that has been as dominant in her field (yet has not even been slightly or off-handedly accused of any doping) since everyone feels that Lance was as dominant as he was because he was doped to the gills.

Are you her boyfriend that you're jumping into this with both feet, hot and heated?

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>Then he admitted yes I doped

Yes, but he's one of the rare ones who admitted freely, not after a positive or an investigation.

>Then he started hiring ex dopers

He never said he wouldn't. I think from the very beginnings of the ProTour-version of Garmin, he stated he was more than willing to accept people who'd doped. Millar was one of the first guys. His attitude, from the start, was to let guys move on from their pasts, much like himself. (we think).


>Why not protest ar appeal to CAS or keep paying him or anything but abandoning him if he thinks its innocent.

The CAS already ruled. He missed tests. He admits he missed tests, and it was his own fault. He couldn't ride, and there's nothing Garmin could have done about it. He can't ride for *any* team. Can't ride, why pay him as a professional cyclist?

Thank you for being intelligent enough to make the connection.

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Kristin Armstrong is VERY good but shes no where near that level of dominance, which is why she's not as highly suspect. Plus she doesnt win every event she enters. Shes an exceptional time trialist, but shes really only dominated a relatively weak american field. So far as I know, she's never even entered the Giro Donne (the womens Giro d'Italia) and her biggest non-TT win on the international stage is the tour of new zealand.

She may be beating dopers in the womens peloton, but shes losing to them as well.

Are you saying that her dominance in Time Trialing doesn't count? She's been the US TT champ 3 times, UCI World TT champ 3 times, and an Olympic gold medalist at the TT. Also in 06 she won the US road race title as well. That's a very dominant streak, also I don't think she has the financial independence that being on a major men's cycling team gave Lance to cherry pick her races so she has to race more meaning she can't win everything she enters. As well, I don't think she ever entered the grand women's tours in Europe...or any one day classics for women. I could be 100% wrong though.

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Can't ride, why pay him as a professional cyclist?

Out of standing up for your principles? if he thinks its a bad system, and he is one of the most vocal, then do something substantial. I don't really expect to change anyones mind about him, but most people that like him revile Johan Bruneel. But what has JB ever done as a DS that JV hasn't? Both have had had riders sanctioned, both have been accused of knowingly participating in doping, both fire guys when they are sanctioned, both hire them back as soon as they can.

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Styrrell

Im saying shes even lost at time trialing. Im saying that being dominant in one area of cycling while being good in others. If shes the best in american cycling and she's good enough for stage racing why not the biggest races? if anything the fact that shes super at one thing and only pretty good at others and not even trying at grand tours tells me shes not doping. If youre doping why arent you going where the best money is and racing the best to win? Is there a possibility she could be? Of course, women have been suspended this year even. I have a friend in california who swears she knows who is and isnt in the local/regional peloton. But I havent seen any signs that make it likely. If she goes and destroys Vos et al at the grand tours that shes never raced, then yeah ill be able to buy in. right now based on money and such its too much risk for little reward.

That doesn't have much to do with the topic at hand now does it?

"I just wanted to compare Lance to a female cyclist... "

So, IOW, yes, you just picked a name out of a hat, never mind the fact that -

"...that has been as dominant in her field "

..is never a statement that anyone with even a modicum of knowledge in re: to professional Women's cycling would make. (If anything, she's the female Cancellara, the Lance comparison is ridiculous.)

Got it.

Yeah, clearly one would have to be Kristin's boyfriend (she's married, btw,) to find this offensive.


"...I don't think she ever entered the grand women's tours in Europe...or any one day classics for women. I could be 100% wrong though. "

Yeah, you are.

"Secondly, and totally unrelated to my prior comment, why is there no apparent systematic doping in female cycling? Does it not happen or is Kristin Armstrong or any other female cyclist for that matter not a big enough name for anyone at USADA/WADA to give a crap about? "

Oh, OK. I get it. No need to debunk this line of nonsense, it's been done already by others. You just genuinely don't know anything about the topic you decided to opine on.

Fair enough, troll on.

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A Slowtwitch thread gone off track??? Holy moly!

The big difference between JB and JV is that JV's budget is like 1/15th or less than JBs. Hard for garmin to afford keeping extra riders on even at "league minimum". And if you believe the reports, JV's choice to dope affected only him, JB ran a team that supported and required doping. JV instead runs a team that doesnt require doping but rather encourages them not to.

You're so awesome, and smart. Plus you know everything about this topic and Kristin Armstrong. I bow down to your dominance, you are all that is mighty in this world.

By the way, just because someone is married doesn't mean that they can't have a boyfriend or a girlfriend or both. Don't be mad you're not hers.

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>Out of standing up for your principles?


What principle is Vaughters violating?


It seems Vaughters thinks that Rasmussen *should* be banned : "I wish he'd been on this team a few years ago so we could have helped him manage his whereabouts a little bit better because we're very strict about that. We keep track of our riders," Vaughters said.


Vaughters to rider: You got yourself into this mess, and you're going to have to deal with the consequences.




> But what has JB ever done as a DS that JV hasn't?


Speculating based on the USADA letter: Run an active doping program. If we stipulate that JV never ran a doping program on his team, and JB did, that's a pretty huge and significant difference.


> both fire guys when they are sanctioned, both hire them back as soon as they can.

Who has JV fired for a doping offense, and then re-hired? (honest question)