I may have missed a thread on it but te forum search didn’t produce anything for me. Does anyone have any thoughts on the new Club requirements by USAT for insurance coverage? It seems to me this was not a smart move by USAT.
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Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [LSchmitt]
[ In reply to ]
I just went through the reaping process.
Or atleast signed the waiver paid the fee and have the certificate.
It’s cheaper than in years past for my club which is really just my coached athletes.
But what’s the negative you see with it?
Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Or atleast signed the waiver paid the fee and have the certificate.
It’s cheaper than in years past for my club which is really just my coached athletes.
But what’s the negative you see with it?
Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [B_Doughtie]
[ In reply to ]
What I saw, and maybe I misunderstood it, is all club members have to be annual members in order to be covered by the insurance. This was an email chain and not an info sheet so something may have been interpretted or stated wrong.
Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [LSchmitt]
[ In reply to ]
Yes that was requirement, I guess for social clubs that’s kinda a pain but for my case. My club is essentially only a club to get the added insurance coverage so it works as all my athletes are active etc.
But I know one of our local clubs some members are the wives of athletes who don’t do tri so I think that would invalidate the insurance.
Of course I think the “run around” is that your roster is only the roster that you upload from what I gather.
Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
But I know one of our local clubs some members are the wives of athletes who don’t do tri so I think that would invalidate the insurance.
Of course I think the “run around” is that your roster is only the roster that you upload from what I gather.
Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [LSchmitt]
[ In reply to ]
LSchmitt wrote:
What I saw, and maybe I misunderstood it, is all club members have to be annual members in order to be covered by the insurance. This was an email chain and not an info sheet so something may have been interpretted or stated wrong.That's what I *thought* at this point. If that's the case, we'll dump them in a heartbeat since it's time to pay up again. Obviously we're waiting for clarification.
Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [dangle]
[ In reply to ]
So it seems like it went "in house" through usat + the regular insurance carrier. The difference this year is that it's for usat membership only + it's a cheaper overall rate. It seems like it's a flat $100 fee no matter how big/small your club is. I think I saved ~$140 and it's the same insurance carrier, just a different step in accessing the insurance carrier.
Now like I said, my "club" is only a club in name only. It's simply my coached athletes who are all racing. So it helps me but I have roughly 14-25 "members", but they are all active so I'm covered by the new policy.
But clubs that have a "social" aspect to it, some may not be members and/or taking a "break" from racing etc and may skip the usat membership during that period. And I'd guess that's more likely the clubs that are part of this whole program to begin with.
The local club here in Raleigh has a president that isn't even a triathlete. He's just big into cycling and swimming and enjoys the multisport lifestyle. He I dont think have been an usat member in years (he did race many years ago as a triathlete). But he's older now and has kids past college so he's just kinda leading it for the social aspect of it.
Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Now like I said, my "club" is only a club in name only. It's simply my coached athletes who are all racing. So it helps me but I have roughly 14-25 "members", but they are all active so I'm covered by the new policy.
But clubs that have a "social" aspect to it, some may not be members and/or taking a "break" from racing etc and may skip the usat membership during that period. And I'd guess that's more likely the clubs that are part of this whole program to begin with.
The local club here in Raleigh has a president that isn't even a triathlete. He's just big into cycling and swimming and enjoys the multisport lifestyle. He I dont think have been an usat member in years (he did race many years ago as a triathlete). But he's older now and has kids past college so he's just kinda leading it for the social aspect of it.
Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [LSchmitt]
[ In reply to ]
LSchmitt wrote:
I may have missed a thread on it but te forum search didn’t produce anything for me. Does anyone have any thoughts on the new Club requirements by USAT for insurance coverage? It seems to me this was not a smart move by USAT.It was a ridiculous move and not well communicated. I am part of a large mostly social tri club. We need to have insurance in order to meet requirements to rent facilities for club practices. We can't just tell non-USAT members they can't attend, so we are now last-minute insurance shopping.
We get a lot of new members who are absolute beginners looking for basic support and comraderie, and who might sign up for 1 or 2 triathlons this year on a 1-day USAT membership. USAT is essentially trying to force us to require a $50 USAT annual membership for all club members, and that is nonsense.
What happened to all the USAT outreach to beginners attempting to grow the sport and lower barriers to entry? Recommend to them to join a local triathlon club, and by the way we'll collect an additional $50 from you?
Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [fishybike]
[ In reply to ]
It was a ridiculous move and not well communicated.
-------
I went to re-new my insurance with the insurance company and I kept not seeing the general liability section. I finally contacted them and they told me we had to do it through USAT which would provide a private link to then complete the insurance process.
Of course USAT offices were closed I believe until the Jan 2, so I actually went a day without being covered but the active date on the insurance is all year- IE 1/1/19 00:00:01am- 12/31/19 23:59:59
I think the not well communicated is going to ruffle some feathers with this move.
Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
-------
I went to re-new my insurance with the insurance company and I kept not seeing the general liability section. I finally contacted them and they told me we had to do it through USAT which would provide a private link to then complete the insurance process.
Of course USAT offices were closed I believe until the Jan 2, so I actually went a day without being covered but the active date on the insurance is all year- IE 1/1/19 00:00:01am- 12/31/19 23:59:59
I think the not well communicated is going to ruffle some feathers with this move.
Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by:
B_Doughtie: Jan 3, 19 9:42
Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [B_Doughtie]
[ In reply to ]
B_Doughtie wrote:
But clubs that have a "social" aspect to it, some may not be members and/or taking a "break" from racing etc and may skip the usat membership during that period. And I'd guess that's more likely the clubs that are part of this whole program to begin with. The local club here in Raleigh has a president that isn't even a triathlete. He's just big into cycling and swimming and enjoys the multisport lifestyle. He I dont think have been an usat member in years (he did race many years ago as a triathlete). But he's older now and has kids past college so he's just kinda leading it for the social aspect of it.
That's us as well. ~100 members. Pretty accurate description of the current club president as well. Only a couple board members have USAT memberships. This was the first year that I bought a USAT annual in a couple years and two of my four USAT races got canceled anyhow.
I agree entirely with what fishybike said.
Our club membership isn't even $50 a year and we provide 50x the benefits to our members than USAT provides its members. Other than Dave enjoying his rankings and HAVING to have it for most events, there's no reason to have it. My USAC and IMBA memberships save me hundreds of dollars every year.
Nothing like shopping for liability insurance during a gap in coverage. Barf.
Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [LSchmitt]
[ In reply to ]
This was always a problem when I was coaching Masters swimming. USMS required everyone to have USMS membership. Even having one person in the pool not registered would put our coverage in jeopardy. Was a big barrier to getting new people involved as well as those who didn't care at all about any competition.
Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [Rumpled]
[ In reply to ]
I'm president of a social club (and unlike a previous poster, it's usually the member's HUSBANDS who join socially and them women are racers).
I talked to Matthew Stone of USAT last night about the insurance and here's the summary of coverage:
I told him that the email and website provided conflicting information (ie only USAT annual members were covered) and he said that was posted/sent out in error.
I did ask to have the above information provided in writing (ie all members are covered regardless of USAT membership and what "make their best effort" means). If I don't have this information by noon today, I'll be getting liability coverage from another provider. Here's the provider that I've found as a solid alternate - their rates and coverage are similar (if not identical) to last year's USAT insurance and there's no question about who is / is not covered.
I did tell him that their poor communication left a gap in coverage, and he said that Integro didn't get things set up on their end until Dec 18th, and then all the USAT staff took a 2 week holiday. They didn't want to release the information and then not have staff present to answer questions.
Overall, I'm incredibly disappointed in USAT.
I talked to Matthew Stone of USAT last night about the insurance and here's the summary of coverage:
- Pay USAT $100 for the insurance and they'll send you a link to Integro to register for the insurance
- When you register with Integro, put down the total number of members (regardless of USAT membership status)
- Integro will bill USAT for the number of athletes you put down on the form (so most likely, USAT will be paying for more than the $100 that your club paid. My club is 160 members and the insurance is just shy of $600, so USAT will be picking up the deficit)
- The insurance policy will cover ALL members, regardless of USAT membership
- USAT expects the club to "make their best effort" to recruit and convert their membership to get annual USAT memberships.
I told him that the email and website provided conflicting information (ie only USAT annual members were covered) and he said that was posted/sent out in error.
I did ask to have the above information provided in writing (ie all members are covered regardless of USAT membership and what "make their best effort" means). If I don't have this information by noon today, I'll be getting liability coverage from another provider. Here's the provider that I've found as a solid alternate - their rates and coverage are similar (if not identical) to last year's USAT insurance and there's no question about who is / is not covered.
I did tell him that their poor communication left a gap in coverage, and he said that Integro didn't get things set up on their end until Dec 18th, and then all the USAT staff took a 2 week holiday. They didn't want to release the information and then not have staff present to answer questions.
Overall, I'm incredibly disappointed in USAT.
Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [mountain_erin]
[ In reply to ]
So USAT is volunteering to cover any amount of athletes for a flat rate and to eat any difference? That's hard to believe. In no way am I calling you a liar, it just seems like a weird arrangement getting weirder. I don't remember what we have paid in the past though, so maybe that's how it has always been.
Our treasurer hasn't heard back from them. I bet their email and phones are going nuts. They deleted about half of the general liability insurance section on their website since yesterday as well.
Our treasurer hasn't heard back from them. I bet their email and phones are going nuts. They deleted about half of the general liability insurance section on their website since yesterday as well.
Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [mountain_erin]
[ In reply to ]
mountain_erin wrote:
I'm president of a social club (and unlike a previous poster, it's usually the member's HUSBANDS who join socially and them women are racers). I talked to Matthew Stone of USAT last night about the insurance and here's the summary of coverage:
- Pay USAT $100 for the insurance and they'll send you a link to Integro to register for the insurance
- When you register with Integro, put down the total number of members (regardless of USAT membership status)
- Integro will bill USAT for the number of athletes you put down on the form (so most likely, USAT will be paying for more than the $100 that your club paid. My club is 160 members and the insurance is just shy of $600, so USAT will be picking up the deficit)
- The insurance policy will cover ALL members, regardless of USAT membership
- USAT expects the club to "make their best effort" to recruit and convert their membership to get annual USAT memberships.
I did ask to have the above information provided in writing (ie all members are covered regardless of USAT membership and what "make their best effort" means). If I don't have this information by noon today, I'll be getting liability coverage from another provider. Here's the provider that I've found as a solid alternate - their rates and coverage are similar (if not identical) to last year's USAT insurance and there's no question about who is / is not covered.
I did tell him that their poor communication left a gap in coverage, and he said that Integro didn't get things set up on their end until Dec 18th, and then all the USAT staff took a 2 week holiday. They didn't want to release the information and then not have staff present to answer questions.
Overall, I'm incredibly disappointed in USAT.
i asked about this yesterday. it is a "best attempt" thing. best effort. not a mandate. at least for 2019. i think if it was a mandate, it would be reasonable to consider looking for another carrier. but, remember the thread i put up last week? how is the subscription economy affecting triathlon? how should it affect triathlon? USAT is doing what adobe, microsoft, sirius, linkedin and dropbox are doing. or at least trying to do. it's doing 2 things: it's morphing to subscription-based; and it's crowdsourcing its efforts, i.e., it's asking you to ask your members to join USAT as annual members. smart.
as long as it remains a best attempt policy, i don't see what your beef would be. you get a great policy, cheap, and all you have to do in consideration is to help them spread their message: become an annual member. just, if i were you i'd check in from time to time and make sure that best effort remains best effort, so that you're not scrambling in late december of 2019.
this is separate from the bad communication, untimeliness, etc. you have a legitimate beef there.
if i see this wrong, please tell me. you're on the front lines of this. tell me what i need to know that i don't know.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [Slowman]
[ In reply to ]
Slowman wrote:
mountain_erin wrote:
I'm president of a social club (and unlike a previous poster, it's usually the member's HUSBANDS who join socially and them women are racers). I talked to Matthew Stone of USAT last night about the insurance and here's the summary of coverage:
- Pay USAT $100 for the insurance and they'll send you a link to Integro to register for the insurance
- When you register with Integro, put down the total number of members (regardless of USAT membership status)
- Integro will bill USAT for the number of athletes you put down on the form (so most likely, USAT will be paying for more than the $100 that your club paid. My club is 160 members and the insurance is just shy of $600, so USAT will be picking up the deficit)
- The insurance policy will cover ALL members, regardless of USAT membership
- USAT expects the club to "make their best effort" to recruit and convert their membership to get annual USAT memberships.
I did ask to have the above information provided in writing (ie all members are covered regardless of USAT membership and what "make their best effort" means). If I don't have this information by noon today, I'll be getting liability coverage from another provider. Here's the provider that I've found as a solid alternate - their rates and coverage are similar (if not identical) to last year's USAT insurance and there's no question about who is / is not covered.
I did tell him that their poor communication left a gap in coverage, and he said that Integro didn't get things set up on their end until Dec 18th, and then all the USAT staff took a 2 week holiday. They didn't want to release the information and then not have staff present to answer questions.
Overall, I'm incredibly disappointed in USAT.
i asked about this yesterday. it is a "best attempt" thing. best effort. not a mandate. at least for 2019. i think if it was a mandate, it would be reasonable to consider looking for another carrier. but, remember the thread i put up last week? how is the subscription economy affecting triathlon? how should it affect triathlon? USAT is doing what adobe, microsoft, sirius, linkedin and dropbox are doing. or at least trying to do. it's doing 2 things: it's morphing to subscription-based; and it's crowdsourcing its efforts, i.e., it's asking you to ask your members to join USAT as annual members. smart.
as long as it remains a best attempt policy, i don't see what your beef would be. you get a great policy, cheap, and all you have to do in consideration is to help them spread their message: become an annual member. just, if i were you i'd check in from time to time and make sure that best effort remains best effort, so that you're not scrambling in late december of 2019.
this is separate from the bad communication, untimeliness, etc. you have a legitimate beef there.
if i see this wrong, please tell me. you're on the front lines of this. tell me what i need to know that i don't know.
It's simple. My club's membership dues are $60/year. Many of my members only join because we offer weekly coached swim practices (they don't race triathlon). Another large segment (including many of my board members) only get daily USAT membership because they only race 3 times a year (you have to race 4 times to make the annual membership worth while). I can't in good conscience ask my membership base to spend an extra $50 (which would nearly double their financial commitment to our club) to build another organization's membership base. My board is in agreement with this.
Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [mountain_erin]
[ In reply to ]
mountain_erin wrote:
Slowman wrote:
mountain_erin wrote:
I'm president of a social club (and unlike a previous poster, it's usually the member's HUSBANDS who join socially and them women are racers). I talked to Matthew Stone of USAT last night about the insurance and here's the summary of coverage:
- Pay USAT $100 for the insurance and they'll send you a link to Integro to register for the insurance
- When you register with Integro, put down the total number of members (regardless of USAT membership status)
- Integro will bill USAT for the number of athletes you put down on the form (so most likely, USAT will be paying for more than the $100 that your club paid. My club is 160 members and the insurance is just shy of $600, so USAT will be picking up the deficit)
- The insurance policy will cover ALL members, regardless of USAT membership
- USAT expects the club to "make their best effort" to recruit and convert their membership to get annual USAT memberships.
I did ask to have the above information provided in writing (ie all members are covered regardless of USAT membership and what "make their best effort" means). If I don't have this information by noon today, I'll be getting liability coverage from another provider. Here's the provider that I've found as a solid alternate - their rates and coverage are similar (if not identical) to last year's USAT insurance and there's no question about who is / is not covered.
I did tell him that their poor communication left a gap in coverage, and he said that Integro didn't get things set up on their end until Dec 18th, and then all the USAT staff took a 2 week holiday. They didn't want to release the information and then not have staff present to answer questions.
Overall, I'm incredibly disappointed in USAT.
i asked about this yesterday. it is a "best attempt" thing. best effort. not a mandate. at least for 2019. i think if it was a mandate, it would be reasonable to consider looking for another carrier. but, remember the thread i put up last week? how is the subscription economy affecting triathlon? how should it affect triathlon? USAT is doing what adobe, microsoft, sirius, linkedin and dropbox are doing. or at least trying to do. it's doing 2 things: it's morphing to subscription-based; and it's crowdsourcing its efforts, i.e., it's asking you to ask your members to join USAT as annual members. smart.
as long as it remains a best attempt policy, i don't see what your beef would be. you get a great policy, cheap, and all you have to do in consideration is to help them spread their message: become an annual member. just, if i were you i'd check in from time to time and make sure that best effort remains best effort, so that you're not scrambling in late december of 2019.
this is separate from the bad communication, untimeliness, etc. you have a legitimate beef there.
if i see this wrong, please tell me. you're on the front lines of this. tell me what i need to know that i don't know.
It's simple. My club's membership dues are $60/year. Many of my members only join because we offer weekly coached swim practices (they don't race triathlon). Another large segment (including many of my board members) only get daily USAT membership because they only race 3 times a year (you have to race 4 times to make the annual membership worth while). I can't in good conscience ask my membership base to spend an extra $50 (which would nearly double their financial commitment to our club) to build another organization's membership base. My board is in agreement with this.
is there that much difference between your view and mine? is the insurance USAT provides the club superior, safer, cheaper, proven, versus other carriers? if so, then this is desirable. so you say...
"folks! welcome! one thing: we get really great insurance covering this club via USAT. how does USAT do this? because it makes its money elsewhere, the the club is the beneficiary. how USAT makes that money is by more of you becoming annual members of your federation. here's how you do that [blah blah blah]. it's not mandatory. but, here are the benefits beyond saving money if you race more than 3 sanctioned events [blah blah blah].
maybe you give that message, what, twice a year? via email? does that constitute best effort? does USAT consider that "best effort"? is that a reasonable ask? i don't know. you're the club manager/president. you tell me. whatever the large majority of people like you reply, that's what it is. you're correct. by default. because you're the customer.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [mountain_erin]
[ In reply to ]
So you offer weekly coached swim sessions what probaly 40 sessions a year for $60 a person? So that person is spending nearly $1.5 dollars per session. That's an incredible deal they are getting if they are paying $60 a year and get even 30 coached sessions without any other cost.
That's one of the least expensive "memberships" I think I've ever heard of with that weekly benefit in endurance sports.
Even if you only did 30 coached swim sessions that's $2 per coached practice. That's incredible value they are getting.
ETA: Of course suggesting they pay $50 this year nearly doubles their cost and that's usually a hard ask to do. But I'm still shocked your club offers weekly coached swim sessions for only $60 a year. That's an incredible deal. I'm shocked at the cost/value of it. Your club members should be very grateful for that.
Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
That's one of the least expensive "memberships" I think I've ever heard of with that weekly benefit in endurance sports.
Even if you only did 30 coached swim sessions that's $2 per coached practice. That's incredible value they are getting.
ETA: Of course suggesting they pay $50 this year nearly doubles their cost and that's usually a hard ask to do. But I'm still shocked your club offers weekly coached swim sessions for only $60 a year. That's an incredible deal. I'm shocked at the cost/value of it. Your club members should be very grateful for that.
Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by:
B_Doughtie: Jan 4, 19 9:24
Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [Slowman]
[ In reply to ]
Well.. hopefully no one is forced into usat membership. As now Toyota is the sponsor, perhaps they can eat the cost
Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [Slowman]
[ In reply to ]
Slowman wrote:
mountain_erin wrote:
Slowman wrote:
mountain_erin wrote:
I'm president of a social club (and unlike a previous poster, it's usually the member's HUSBANDS who join socially and them women are racers). I talked to Matthew Stone of USAT last night about the insurance and here's the summary of coverage:
- Pay USAT $100 for the insurance and they'll send you a link to Integro to register for the insurance
- When you register with Integro, put down the total number of members (regardless of USAT membership status)
- Integro will bill USAT for the number of athletes you put down on the form (so most likely, USAT will be paying for more than the $100 that your club paid. My club is 160 members and the insurance is just shy of $600, so USAT will be picking up the deficit)
- The insurance policy will cover ALL members, regardless of USAT membership
- USAT expects the club to "make their best effort" to recruit and convert their membership to get annual USAT memberships.
I did ask to have the above information provided in writing (ie all members are covered regardless of USAT membership and what "make their best effort" means). If I don't have this information by noon today, I'll be getting liability coverage from another provider. Here's the provider that I've found as a solid alternate - their rates and coverage are similar (if not identical) to last year's USAT insurance and there's no question about who is / is not covered.
I did tell him that their poor communication left a gap in coverage, and he said that Integro didn't get things set up on their end until Dec 18th, and then all the USAT staff took a 2 week holiday. They didn't want to release the information and then not have staff present to answer questions.
Overall, I'm incredibly disappointed in USAT.
i asked about this yesterday. it is a "best attempt" thing. best effort. not a mandate. at least for 2019. i think if it was a mandate, it would be reasonable to consider looking for another carrier. but, remember the thread i put up last week? how is the subscription economy affecting triathlon? how should it affect triathlon? USAT is doing what adobe, microsoft, sirius, linkedin and dropbox are doing. or at least trying to do. it's doing 2 things: it's morphing to subscription-based; and it's crowdsourcing its efforts, i.e., it's asking you to ask your members to join USAT as annual members. smart.
as long as it remains a best attempt policy, i don't see what your beef would be. you get a great policy, cheap, and all you have to do in consideration is to help them spread their message: become an annual member. just, if i were you i'd check in from time to time and make sure that best effort remains best effort, so that you're not scrambling in late december of 2019.
this is separate from the bad communication, untimeliness, etc. you have a legitimate beef there.
if i see this wrong, please tell me. you're on the front lines of this. tell me what i need to know that i don't know.
It's simple. My club's membership dues are $60/year. Many of my members only join because we offer weekly coached swim practices (they don't race triathlon). Another large segment (including many of my board members) only get daily USAT membership because they only race 3 times a year (you have to race 4 times to make the annual membership worth while). I can't in good conscience ask my membership base to spend an extra $50 (which would nearly double their financial commitment to our club) to build another organization's membership base. My board is in agreement with this.
is there that much difference between your view and mine? is the insurance USAT provides the club superior, safer, cheaper, proven, versus other carriers? if so, then this is desirable. so you say...
"folks! welcome! one thing: we get really great insurance covering this club via USAT. how does USAT do this? because it makes its money elsewhere, the the club is the beneficiary. how USAT makes that money is by more of you becoming annual members of your federation. here's how you do that [blah blah blah]. it's not mandatory. but, here are the benefits beyond saving money if you race more than 3 sanctioned events [blah blah blah].
maybe you give that message, what, twice a year? via email? does that constitute best effort? does USAT consider that "best effort"? is that a reasonable ask? i don't know. you're the club manager/president. you tell me. whatever the large majority of people like you reply, that's what it is. you're correct. by default. because you're the customer.
It will cost us $500 more per year (so $600 total) for non USAT insurance which covers ALL of my members with NO requirements for upselling membership to a separate organization. For me, I have the budget for that and it's worth the extra money to ensure that we get the insurance that we need - hassle free with no strings attached.
IMO, USAT annual membership doesn't hold many benefits (at least none that I've ever used in my 10 years in the sport). I don't see much motivation to do the annual membership unless you're racing more than 4 times per year. My members are pretty sensitive to sales pitches. Our previous leadership (before I took over 3 years ago) was VERY salesy and as a result, our membership dropped by half in 2 years to 50 members. Since I took over and made it clear that we were a members first organization with NO sales pressure, we've grown to over 160 members.
Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [dangle]
[ In reply to ]
dangle wrote:
So USAT is volunteering to cover any amount of athletes for a flat rate and to eat any difference? That's hard to believe. In no way am I calling you a liar, it just seems like a weird arrangement getting weirder. I don't remember what we have paid in the past though, so maybe that's how it has always been. Our treasurer hasn't heard back from them. I bet their email and phones are going nuts. They deleted about half of the general liability insurance section on their website since yesterday as well.
that is exactly what Matthew Stone of USAT told me verbally over the phone. They're eating the expenses and hoping they'll make up the difference in increased USAT annual membership registrations.
Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [mountain_erin]
[ In reply to ]
mountain_erin wrote:
Slowman wrote:
mountain_erin wrote:
Slowman wrote:
mountain_erin wrote:
I'm president of a social club (and unlike a previous poster, it's usually the member's HUSBANDS who join socially and them women are racers). I talked to Matthew Stone of USAT last night about the insurance and here's the summary of coverage:
- Pay USAT $100 for the insurance and they'll send you a link to Integro to register for the insurance
- When you register with Integro, put down the total number of members (regardless of USAT membership status)
- Integro will bill USAT for the number of athletes you put down on the form (so most likely, USAT will be paying for more than the $100 that your club paid. My club is 160 members and the insurance is just shy of $600, so USAT will be picking up the deficit)
- The insurance policy will cover ALL members, regardless of USAT membership
- USAT expects the club to "make their best effort" to recruit and convert their membership to get annual USAT memberships.
I did ask to have the above information provided in writing (ie all members are covered regardless of USAT membership and what "make their best effort" means). If I don't have this information by noon today, I'll be getting liability coverage from another provider. Here's the provider that I've found as a solid alternate - their rates and coverage are similar (if not identical) to last year's USAT insurance and there's no question about who is / is not covered.
I did tell him that their poor communication left a gap in coverage, and he said that Integro didn't get things set up on their end until Dec 18th, and then all the USAT staff took a 2 week holiday. They didn't want to release the information and then not have staff present to answer questions.
Overall, I'm incredibly disappointed in USAT.
i asked about this yesterday. it is a "best attempt" thing. best effort. not a mandate. at least for 2019. i think if it was a mandate, it would be reasonable to consider looking for another carrier. but, remember the thread i put up last week? how is the subscription economy affecting triathlon? how should it affect triathlon? USAT is doing what adobe, microsoft, sirius, linkedin and dropbox are doing. or at least trying to do. it's doing 2 things: it's morphing to subscription-based; and it's crowdsourcing its efforts, i.e., it's asking you to ask your members to join USAT as annual members. smart.
as long as it remains a best attempt policy, i don't see what your beef would be. you get a great policy, cheap, and all you have to do in consideration is to help them spread their message: become an annual member. just, if i were you i'd check in from time to time and make sure that best effort remains best effort, so that you're not scrambling in late december of 2019.
this is separate from the bad communication, untimeliness, etc. you have a legitimate beef there.
if i see this wrong, please tell me. you're on the front lines of this. tell me what i need to know that i don't know.
It's simple. My club's membership dues are $60/year. Many of my members only join because we offer weekly coached swim practices (they don't race triathlon). Another large segment (including many of my board members) only get daily USAT membership because they only race 3 times a year (you have to race 4 times to make the annual membership worth while). I can't in good conscience ask my membership base to spend an extra $50 (which would nearly double their financial commitment to our club) to build another organization's membership base. My board is in agreement with this.
is there that much difference between your view and mine? is the insurance USAT provides the club superior, safer, cheaper, proven, versus other carriers? if so, then this is desirable. so you say...
"folks! welcome! one thing: we get really great insurance covering this club via USAT. how does USAT do this? because it makes its money elsewhere, the the club is the beneficiary. how USAT makes that money is by more of you becoming annual members of your federation. here's how you do that [blah blah blah]. it's not mandatory. but, here are the benefits beyond saving money if you race more than 3 sanctioned events [blah blah blah].
maybe you give that message, what, twice a year? via email? does that constitute best effort? does USAT consider that "best effort"? is that a reasonable ask? i don't know. you're the club manager/president. you tell me. whatever the large majority of people like you reply, that's what it is. you're correct. by default. because you're the customer.
It will cost us $500 more per year (so $600 total) for non USAT insurance which covers ALL of my members with NO requirements for upselling membership to a separate organization. For me, I have the budget for that and it's worth the extra money to ensure that we get the insurance that we need - hassle free with no strings attached.
IMO, USAT annual membership doesn't hold many benefits (at least none that I've ever used in my 10 years in the sport). I don't see much motivation to do the annual membership unless you're racing more than 4 times per year. My members are pretty sensitive to sales pitches. Our previous leadership (before I took over 3 years ago) was VERY salesy and as a result, our membership dropped by half in 2 years to 50 members. Since I took over and made it clear that we were a members first organization with NO sales pressure, we've grown to over 160 members.
well stated. well reasoned. i have no counter argument.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [B_Doughtie]
[ In reply to ]
B_Doughtie wrote:
So you offer weekly coached swim sessions what probaly 40 sessions a year for $60 a person? So that person is spending nearly $1.5 dollars per session. That's an incredible deal they are getting if they are paying $60 a year and get even 30 coached sessions without any other cost. That's one of the least expensive "memberships" I think I've ever heard of with that weekly benefit in endurance sports.
Even if you only did 30 coached swim sessions that's $2 per coached practice. That's incredible value they are getting.
ETA: Of course suggesting they pay $50 this year nearly doubles their cost and that's usually a hard ask to do. But I'm still shocked your club offers weekly coached swim sessions for only $60 a year. That's an incredible deal. I'm shocked at the cost/value of it. Your club members should be very grateful for that.
We don't offer it year round, but we do hold ~30 free swims per year, which I agree, is an incredible value and is one way that we build our membership base. Other clubs in Denver offer similar benefits for similar pricing. And all on volunteer coaching (none of us make any money off of the club, per the bylaws).
Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [synthetic]
[ In reply to ]
I'm still not sure what was wrong with the old policy. IE- it's like USAT is "investing" in the clubs while at the same time some of those big membered clubs don't want to actually buy into USAT membership.
So it's almost a quagmire. Whereas last year, each club paid for insurance of all it's members, regardless of USAT membership. Each club paid for it's own covering. No one "owes" anything, clubs aren't "forced" into pushing USAT membership.
This new policy seems to be kinda adding an extra headache or 2 for both the clubs and the national federation.
I mean in theory it sounds like a good idea by USAT- cover the costs of the clubs in exchange for "pushing" memberships....But I think when you realize many clubs have members who don't want membership, your kinda creating an unneccessary issue.
Maybe USAT can "write it off" (you just write it off from Kramer and Seinfeld......well do you even know what a write off is, lol), just seems kinda a wonky play.
Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
So it's almost a quagmire. Whereas last year, each club paid for insurance of all it's members, regardless of USAT membership. Each club paid for it's own covering. No one "owes" anything, clubs aren't "forced" into pushing USAT membership.
This new policy seems to be kinda adding an extra headache or 2 for both the clubs and the national federation.
I mean in theory it sounds like a good idea by USAT- cover the costs of the clubs in exchange for "pushing" memberships....But I think when you realize many clubs have members who don't want membership, your kinda creating an unneccessary issue.
Maybe USAT can "write it off" (you just write it off from Kramer and Seinfeld......well do you even know what a write off is, lol), just seems kinda a wonky play.
Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [mountain_erin]
[ In reply to ]
mountain_erin wrote:
B_Doughtie wrote:
So you offer weekly coached swim sessions what probaly 40 sessions a year for $60 a person? So that person is spending nearly $1.5 dollars per session. That's an incredible deal they are getting if they are paying $60 a year and get even 30 coached sessions without any other cost. That's one of the least expensive "memberships" I think I've ever heard of with that weekly benefit in endurance sports.
Even if you only did 30 coached swim sessions that's $2 per coached practice. That's incredible value they are getting.
ETA: Of course suggesting they pay $50 this year nearly doubles their cost and that's usually a hard ask to do. But I'm still shocked your club offers weekly coached swim sessions for only $60 a year. That's an incredible deal. I'm shocked at the cost/value of it. Your club members should be very grateful for that.
We don't offer it year round, but we do hold ~30 free swims per year, which I agree, is an incredible value and is one way that we build our membership base. Other clubs in Denver offer similar benefits for similar pricing. And all on volunteer coaching (none of us make any money off of the club, per the bylaws).
We arranged for the local crossfit gym to allow our members two classes per week for five months of the off-season and they get a $35 credit towards team jerseys/shorts/tri suits (that we do at cost) for a grand total of $35 per year. Plus there's social parties, t-shirts and other stuff. $35 freaking dollars. My motion to go to $45 annually was shot down last year and this year. I can't imagine what we could charge in other parts of the USA.
You made some great points about your thinking of 'selling' USAT to members in exchange for saving a few hundred on liability insurance. Thanks for contributing so much to this thread!
Re: USAT Insurance Requirements [mountain_erin]
[ In reply to ]
It just seems like 99% of age group triathletes will make the decision to buy or not buy the membership based on how many races they plan to do in a year. So who are they going to convince to buy it who doesn’t already buy it? I suspect the $15 a race fee will be increasing soon.
I wanted to do a masters swim meet this fall but their membership was calendar year and it was $63 so guess who didn’t enter the swim meet.? I did buy it for 2019 and so now mentally I have committed to do at least 3 swim meets.
I wanted to do a masters swim meet this fall but their membership was calendar year and it was $63 so guess who didn’t enter the swim meet.? I did buy it for 2019 and so now mentally I have committed to do at least 3 swim meets.
I think the new CEO is smart as hell. I think this club insurance policy works for coach/club combo programs that are basically "training" focused. It's the whole reason why I have club is for the insurance. I believe if under 3 people "workout" with me with them it's covered under my coaching certification insurance. If 3+ are working out together it's covered under the club insurance. So I'm only a club for that benefit (I've never really looked at other coverages outside of it).
So there are what 2500 certified coaches in the US? Many whom likely could form the same type of club I've done. The issue is that when you *require* membership that will limit what clubs actually feel the need to follow that requirement.
As I said our biggest triathlon club here in Raleigh (Triangle Tri Club) the person (he may have just stepped down) who runs the club isn't an USAT member. Probaly hasn't been a USAT member for years, but I'm guessing the majority of the club members are usat members. However they all have wives/friends who join the club to support the club and/or just for the "free" monthly beers/socials. Those clubs are the ones that are being pinched because now they have to "sale" USAT membership (and I'm guessing in likely future have to be 100% usat members to get the insurance coverage), and it's probaly just better for them to do status quo of last year and just basically pay for their own insurance that covers everyone.
I think USAT has to be careful here because anytime you "require" things, it can turn off people quickly. And yes maybe the new info is saying it's only being "suggested" at this point, but that just means they are likely leaning towards that requirement in the future. But even still, suggesting you have to email blast the members etc., that can turn off people quickly.
So like I said, I feel like USAT was trying to do a good thing (investing in the clubs/members essentially) when in reality it's likely adding headaches for themselves (likely losing a good chunk of money and may not see that back in membership numbers) and the clubs who don't want usat memberships.
Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
So there are what 2500 certified coaches in the US? Many whom likely could form the same type of club I've done. The issue is that when you *require* membership that will limit what clubs actually feel the need to follow that requirement.
As I said our biggest triathlon club here in Raleigh (Triangle Tri Club) the person (he may have just stepped down) who runs the club isn't an USAT member. Probaly hasn't been a USAT member for years, but I'm guessing the majority of the club members are usat members. However they all have wives/friends who join the club to support the club and/or just for the "free" monthly beers/socials. Those clubs are the ones that are being pinched because now they have to "sale" USAT membership (and I'm guessing in likely future have to be 100% usat members to get the insurance coverage), and it's probaly just better for them to do status quo of last year and just basically pay for their own insurance that covers everyone.
I think USAT has to be careful here because anytime you "require" things, it can turn off people quickly. And yes maybe the new info is saying it's only being "suggested" at this point, but that just means they are likely leaning towards that requirement in the future. But even still, suggesting you have to email blast the members etc., that can turn off people quickly.
So like I said, I feel like USAT was trying to do a good thing (investing in the clubs/members essentially) when in reality it's likely adding headaches for themselves (likely losing a good chunk of money and may not see that back in membership numbers) and the clubs who don't want usat memberships.
Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II