So the USAT has more than a few corporate sponsors. I won't name them - I'm not suggesting action against companies who do good things for this sport. I would be shocked, however, if they didn't have thoughts on this matter. Not that we need to hear them - but they can not be happy.

In some ways I am more shocked at this board, and past, for the info Dan just posted on Law suit costs and members now knowing.

I know at our HOA they hide the exact same stuff. I know a member who won a large 6 figure case against our HOA, but because they forced a non disclosure on the case, members do not know what happened.


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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Wow, amazing how most folks who get on boards are the same about wanting power. Whether it is my HOA which I have seen this for 25 years, or the USAT board, etc., there are a group of folks, who tend to be older who seem to have nothing better to do in life but live on board and get drunk on the power. I know our boards were livid when we did the recalls against them.

I have thought about running for my HOA board to try and make a difference. But then I ask why would I want to waste my time fighting with other board members who do not care what members think, which is totally against my values. Board members, IMO, should ONLY by putting in place what the majority of members want, and this can only be known by active communications, polling, etc, but this is totally against what they want and allow, as you stated.

And as you stated, we have gotten what we deserve by our voting over the years to allow the bylaws to be watered down, not having choices of folks running, and not knowing the details on things happening with board members
and costs in the association.

So still gets back to your question, been lots of talking on this thread. Will this just end here?

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I've served on professional boards and dealt with thorny ethical issues there, so I understand the complexity of the april vote. And I understand how different people could reach different conclusions about the appropriateness of Jack being treasurer.

I also know that we have a short memory in this country, especially when it comes to hot-button social issues. For example, just a short time ago it was acceptable for a public figure to debate against gay marriage. But then a tipping point of support was reached, and the tide shifted quickly and drastically. Now a public figure who questions gay marriage is pilloried, seemingly as if we'd forgotten that just 2-3 years ago this was a regular and accepted topic of debate.

Likewise, a short time ago, a majority of the public accepted that someone could commit domestic violence but still hold a position in the public eye (at least in sports). But at some point over the summer, a tipping point was reached, and a majority of the public no longer accepts that notion. But we've forgotten that just six months ago that private/professional divide was still intact.

Which is why I focus my criticism on Jack not voluntarily resigning, and on the board for not choosing to revisit the vote once they recognized in September the public sentiment about domestic abusers holding public positions of prominence. Their choice to change their vote only when pressured by the media, and the issue becoming known to the membership, is perhaps the most damning thing in my eyes.

Which is why I really want to hear from Barry Siff on this particular matter. Because every day of silence from usat makes me imagine worse and worse scenarios that have gone on behind closed doors.

thank you slowman. not to derail a topic but this caught my eye:
<<keep its eye on the ball instead of members trying to get their ways through gaming the loopholes...>>
you mean like the last election process and power grab by the elite minority? guess what process happens again in 2015. yes, elections.

First, I'm terribly sorry that happened to you. That's horrible.

Second, would you feel comfortable around the person who did that to you if their friend said the same thing about them as you did about Jack?

Jack did something horrifying. That's scary. EVERYONE has the right to be uncomfortable being around him. It's that simple.

I think we need to be very careful about asking questions like (or asking how we would feel if it was out mother, sister, whomeever in the scenario). Those types of questions are a play on emotions and serve no purpose in this discussion. It is the reason why victims don't get to decide on the punishment for their offenders. Emotion clouds the issue.

The question is really pretty simple - how we, as na organization (members, board, sponsors, etc) are going to deal with issues such as this moving forward. FWIW, it seems there is little that can be done about Jack Weiss at the moment. He has made his position clear and continues to push back against calls for his resignation.

Moving forward, how can the bylaws be revised to properly address infractions, violations and assorted missteps by its members?

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

"Which is why I really want to hear from Barry Siff on this particular matter. Because every day of silence from usat makes me imagine worse and worse scenarios that have gone on behind closed doors."

my own opinion - and, again, i'm offering my take on it and how i process it, rather than my statement of how you all should think - people get on boards like these for a lot of reasons. i've seen people be on USAT's board for years and never do a goddam thing, not one thing, not lift one finger, not volunteer for any committee or do any job, rather they're on the board just to protect their own business interests. once upon a time WTC tried to stack the board, about a decade ago. duathlon enthusiasts tried to stack the board. this past year elites tried to stack the board. USAT is just this big bucket of money, and various people have tried to get their hands on that money to fuel or fund their own interests or projects, and often they resort to means that cause other people to object. lawsuits ensue.

but there are very good people who serve on the board, and who do hard work, thankless work, spend out of their own pockets, always on volunteer time, and barry is one of them, and i cannot find it in me to criticize him. i've spoken to him numerous times lately. look, i've spoken to board members, barry and jack included, and other committee heads, multiple times every day for several days running. and my own time invested in this is dwarfed by the time barry has spent on this. my guess is that there are a lot of moving parts to this. i don't tell you all the contents of every conversation and counsel shared among the various parties, because i don't want to sabotage a hoped-for end result. it is my guess barry isn't saying anything publicly now because of that very same reason.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I actually don't think that part of the discussion is relevant, but that was a very clear defense of his character and, really, a defense of his actions. It should be unstated that people have the right to be uncomfortable around a person who beats his partner. End of story, let's move on.

Of course, saying that may minimize the importance of current discussions and issues concerning the equality of women in the sport. That's an even bigger problem.

As I've stated multiple times, this is primarily about our representation on USAT.

Fair enough. I'll be patient.

Are the USAT's financials available?

Can someone let me know when Lance is reinstated?

Sorry, no discussion should go 15 pages without a mention of Lance.

I was referring to the reference to her past experiences and then linking them to how she would feel, not the broader question of comfort around individuals.


Agreed.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

You know, I totally agree with that. It was just such a glaring contradiction (maybe because she bolded both statements) of sorts.

The focus should have been on the first statement: "if you knew him, you wouldn't be uncomfortable" is a problem.

"I actually don't think that part of the discussion is relevant, but that was a very clear defense of his character and, really, a defense of his actions. It should be unstated that people have the right to be uncomfortable around a person who beats his partner. End of story, let's move on."

couple of points of order. first, according to his wife, from what i understand, "jack beats his wife" is an inaccurate statement. jack committed spousal battery. no question about that, and it wasn't minor or trivial. just, i do not know whether it was an isolated incident, i don't know the number of incidents, my understanding is it's not ongoing. if you have better intel on this i stand corrected. i'm not trying to lessen the seriousness of the act. just, if you were convicted of a crime at some point in the past and i characterized you as still actively engaged in committing that same crime, you'd probably object and i wouldn't blame you.

second, among the most strikingly objectionable stories involving people in the sporting world, to me, was michael vick. again, not telling you how you should feel, just, that was my own reaction. however badly i wanted michael vick out of football, i never considered statements about his work ethic, locker room professionalism, talent on the field, in bad taste or an indication that those making such statements were trying to minimize his bad acts. they were just statements of fact, and i found them helpful in trying to get my arms around the entire michael vick. i find it fascinating how people are able to bifurcate their own behaviors and values. JFK cheated on his wife but was true to his country, nixon was true to his wife but cheated on his country. i don't take statements about jack weiss' good behavior as efforts to cancel or balance or lessen jack's bad behavior.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I have a neighbor who moved in near me. Around 65, ex Vietnam vet. Has milked the system for lots of disability stuff.

We became good friends. I would work on his computers, he would help me with my spa. Help his wife with her computer issues.
I took care of their dog when they were away, and my granddaughter would walk their dog and give it treats.

I had heard some things from his one kid and wife but nothing logged in.

So I got a call from our association control committee saying this neighbor had complained about some plants on my property, but had never
said anything to me. So assuming he was a friend, I went up to his house and asked what was going on. He proceeded to threaten me
verbally that he was going to assault me physically. So I left.

He had been a great guy for many years and then I saw the very dark side of him.

When I talked with his wife, she told me how sorry she was and now I knew how bad of a marriage she has. She told me she and other family
members have been both verbally and physically assaulted by this guy. When I talked to his one son, he told me the same thing.

I just about went to get a restraining order against him since I now know he is a loose cannon and can lose it at any time over nothing.

So some folks may seem like great people 99% of the time. But when put under stress or what ever, some lose it and lose it bad.

I will never get near the guy again, and have told me family to stay away from them since I no longer can trust he would not follow through on his
threats.

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

So lets see if I can summarize (correct me if I am wrong on any of this):

-Jack smacks hits his wife in the face and is arrested and pleads to a lesser charge which would have been a felony
-Some board members call for him to resign from the board and he refuses because technically he doesn't have to...acting like a self serving jerk
-Some that want him to resign are elite triathletes on the board with an agenda to get their way on the board get their hands on the money and resources and put it towards olymic triathlon which would personally benefit themselves and their peers (which Jack opposes). Jacks resignation would help them in this self serving effort.
-one of the elite triathletes on the USAT board pissed in T2 at IM ChooChoo in such a way that forced his fellow triathletes to walk in his piss...
-these board members have sued each other in the past using the memberships money when they didn't like what the board did or didn't do...

did I miss anything???

nice..........

Here in Minnesota most triathlons are NOT USAT sanctioned, you can race all year without doing a USAT race. I havent been a member for years despite competing every year but joined last year because I did Nationals. I am likely to not renew my annual membership this years so I can avoid knowing my money is spent on all of the above.....

You captured everything.

Oh, and the USAT is silent, as normal. (as if you wanted your card in a timely manner or had a question).

"did I miss anything???"

you hit the high points. (i'm not sure the changing tent urinator is on the USAT or any athlete board, don't know about that.)

but it does all exist against a backdrop of a stable insurance policy, a lot of money in the bank in case USAT has to self-fund part of the policies should the coverage temporarily skyrocket to the point where RDs can't afford to put on a race, there are rules of competition that are regularly looked at; officials training program and officials available for RDs, production of a first-rate national championships, qualification process for world championships, olympic development program, coaches programs and training. all of that is going on relatively smoothly.

much of this has to do with the office, and a great staff, which is separate from the board of directors. however, the board has almost always had a core of hard working people who are level headed. barry, bob wendling before him, guys like ray plotecia, lew kidder, rick margiotta, brad davison, john duke, lots of guys in the past who worked hard and had their hearts and priorities in the right place, pretty much had their needles pointed north.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

hrmmm

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Wasn't there a past president who had never "done" a triathlon until after he was in office?

I've always thought that that was strange. I don't doubt for a moment that he was a good administrator but it
always struck me as odd that the governing body for the sport of triathlon had a president who
was not involved in the sport even on a recreational level.

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

An alcoholic considers themselves an alcoholic for life, even if they're not drinking. Sorry for not giving your buddy, who you keep bending backwards to defend, the benefit of doubt. But the stats state these aren't isolated occurrences. Ultimately, though, I don't care. He's an abuser...then, now, and forever.

Michael Vick? Are you kidding me? You think there are a lot of dogs telling othe dogs "you wouldn't be afraid to be around Mike if you knew him"? Seriously, get the hell out of here with that nonsense.

"Sorry for not giving your buddy, who you keep bending backwards to defend, the benefit of doubt."

it's comments like this that undermine your point, and i'm sure you have a valid point. jack is a professional colleague. he and i have never spent time together outside of a USAT function. if you had - let us say - embezzled funds, while acknowledging your past bad deed i would not maintain that you're still embezzling funds. nor would i allow anyone on this forum to make that claim against you.

as to my other point, i think you well know what i'm talking about.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Imagine if the same attention, passion, and commitment we're seeing to being outraged about Jack was shown to reading ballots, voting on resolutions and for board members, and in encouraging other USAT members to vote...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

di

Slow....according to post #258 piss-boy is on the USAT board.....