well i searched on prednisone and dexamethasone (both of which i take orally and injected depending on the attack) and came up empty. do you have a link? i'm starting to think i am looking at the wrong place...

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

keep up the good work!

"Put me on testosterone and at least my swim and bike times will be just as fast as when I was 25 and I'll actually be able to do more training than I could then. My run may not be quite there, but suddenly I am swimming faster, biking faster, higher FTP, so getting to T2 more fresh, and probably run a touch faster. Suddenly across the board, I'm going way faster. But that's not how it works for legal racing. If 50 year old guys think it is cool to be on T therapy because the doc saying they are low, maybe they should race in 25-29 or 30-34 or pro and see how things go."


Dev-this just isn't true. You're right that you would be faster with testosterone than without but you would not be anywhere near a 30 year old. You're aging effects your lungs, heart, tendons, muscles, etc. The case is being made for small doses-not people "pumped up" on drugs. I think we're talking about 1% applications not 200 mg. Older folks are trying to continue with a life-style that they are used to-SBR- not race as pros.

While I understand the idea that anyone using a medication to regain youthful strength is as equally against the rules as is taking PEDs for a young (pro) athlete trying to up their performance above their bodies natural capability, there is a conundrum there.

Accepting the vicissitudes of aging without resorting to medical help in order to race clean and even strength within an age group may not be as fair as it starts out to appear. Aside from muscle loss, there's bone loss, eyesight changes, co-ordination, digestion, heart lung capacity, recovery (and a few I can't remember :0).

Where do we start and stop in this search for a moving target of what is natural and what is not a natural level of health. I am more than happy to take advantage of what appears to be a slower aging process in some parts of me and, once again, I forget which parts don't work anymore. It wasn't fair when I was a prepubescent teen and some thirteen year old who shaved twice a day made me look like a whimp, so why should it be fair now, you might ask.

Maybe we should not allow chess players to take anti dementia drugs, maybe Tiger Woods shouldn't be allowed back surgery, or Tommy John surgery for worn out baseball pitchers. Perhaps we should ban glasses or lasik, (ok ban hairpieces). At what point do you stop making it a level playing field, because it never was.

Perhaps there should be a standard to which all may be allowed to exist within (oh hang on isn't that WADA ?) and anyone should match it according to standards for a sport and or age. Or would that be in a peculiar way, too fair.

I think I'm a moron as well. I agree with the view put forward by h20fun that the rules are clearly stated and that's the defined level of acceptable exogenous help allowed.

Sorry Broken Leg Guy, but that's the most convincing argument.

WADA is kinda a bad resource because you can't show up to their website and type something into the search bar.
From the USADA website there is a link to the Global DRO. This is better because it allows you to put in your role, your sport, country etc to get feedback for your specific situation.

Things like BetaBlockers are banned from shooting sports because they slow your heart rate and help steady your hand... but are obvious not performance enhancing in physical sports like runnning. Therefore, there really is an attempt to classify based on each sport and whether it is potentially performance enhancing for that given situation.

With things like inhaled prednisone, there is very little systemic availability (meaning it basically all stays in the lungs).
Asthmatic medications often get a pass because its a very common disease to treat (a staggering amount of athletes have it, most likely from consistent high-ventilation rates among other factors). If you need a dexamethasone injection (systemic) during a race... you should probably drop out ;) . Feel free to take an inhaler though.

These aren't the easiest waters to navigate, but with a little curiosity and effort its completely manageable.

Prednisone:
Global DRO for Prednisone

Global DRO for Dexamethasone:

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I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

those links just give me a TOC. can you copy what you found? TIA!

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

Didn't see the TOC.

I led you to water...

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I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

I would challenge you and Dave to find one instance in previous doping threads where I'm condoning doping at the pro or elite AG level. I have spelled out in much more detail my thoughts in other threads. This one went off the rails long ago.

I'm simply putting forth a potential solution that affects a vast majority of the people involved in triathlon. I am 100% in favor of drug testing racers at the pointy end of the sport. For everyone else it's unnecessary. Whether you guys want to acknowledge it or not, this is a participation sport, pure and simple.

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Formerly DrD

HRT is a generic description for a number of treatments and drugs.

All three of the drugs you listed are banned under certain circumstances. Dexa is banned when injected or taken orally during an in-competition test. Albuterol is prohibited in all forms except inhalation, and only allowed when below a certain threshold. Prednisone is also banned during competition. These fall under two classes:

Glucocorticoids (S9)
All glucocorticoids are prohibited when administered by oral, intravenous, intramuscular or rectal routes.

Beta-2 Agonists (S3)
All beta-2 agonists, including all optical isomers(e.g.d- andl-) where relevant, are prohibited except inhaled salbutamol(maximum 1600 micrograms over 24 hours),inhaled formoterol(maximum delivered dose 54 micrograms over 24hours) and salmeterol when taken by inhalation in accordance with the manufacturers' recommended therapeutic regimen.
The presence in urine of salbutamol in excess of 1000ng/mL or formoterol in excess of 40ng/mL is presumed not to be an intended therapeutic use of the substance and will be considered as an Adverse Analytical Finding unless the Athlete proves, through a controlled pharmacokinetic study, that the abnormal result was the consequence of the use of the therapeutic inhaled dose up to the maximum indicated above.

We don't need a recreational division. Just do what the Pike's Peak Race Director did. He simply made it known well before the race that the pointy end of the finishers would be subject to testing.

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What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699

thanks so much but i get nothing when i put in the drug names to search on that website - it just keeps coming back to the TOC. also, is there a reason you're not using the WADA site?

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

The WADA site explains an international code, including the rules and classes of drugs and methods that are prohibited. It doesn't have a full listing of every drug in every form and every brand name in every country. They list classes of drugs that are prohibited. If you take a drug, in any form or brand name, that contains a drug in one of those classes, you risk an adverse analytical finding.

prednisone, USA, for cycling 10mg tablet(for instance) is prohibited in competition, but not prohibited out of competition.

go to bottom of the TOC, check the box and search(only 4 countries listed as they make up that site)

since you wont do your own searching when led to the water, you can decipher this mess:





INGREDIENT STATUS Ingredient: Dexamethasone Printer Friendly View as PDF Send to Email Feedback Other Names Dexamethasone isonicotinate; Dexamethasone phosphate; Dexamethasone sodium phosphate Reference Number Nation of Purchase 03150000469 United States Date and Time of Search Sport Friday, January 02, 2015 7:12 PM (UTC) Cycling

Status
IngredientRoute of AdministrationIn-CompetitionOut-of-CompetitionDexamethasone Inhalation Dexamethasone Injection - Intra-muscular Dexamethasone Injection - Intravenous * Dexamethasone Injection - Local or Intra-Articular Dexamethasone Nasal Dexamethasone Ophthalmic Dexamethasone Oral Dexamethasone Otic Dexamethasone Phonophoresis/Iontophoresis Dexamethasone Topical (dermatological)

WADA Classification(s):
Glucocorticoids (S9)

what a prince! thanks so much! did you read the part where i put in the search term but never got a result - that i kept getting the TOC no matter what i put in the search or did you just feel like being an asshole? you have a great day!

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

Now, I am an AGer preparing to do a WTC Event. Any idea when I am "in competition?"

The answer is out there, but it is not very easy to find (ask me how I know).

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Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

oh, that makes so much sense. so with WADA you need to search by class. so estrogen and progesterone would fall under hormones, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrogen and since WADA gives no hits for estrogen i searched on hormones and got http://list.wada-ama.org/...-related-substances/ but i'm thinking that must be wrong because testosterone isn't even there. so Wiki says steroid hormones, but WADA gets me nowhere with that... but I did get http://list.wada-ama.org/list/s1-anabolic-agents/ and see nothing there related to estrogen and/or progesterone, correct?

thanks again!

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

half and half, good way to start out new year. figured your fingers froze as you were typing in some sub 80 degree room

did you go to the bottom of the TOC page? from there you can get where you want to go.

per usada
Substances and Methods Prohibited In-Competition Only
This section focuses on substances that are prohibited in-competition only. These substances are not tested for out-of-competition.
It is very important to be aware of the definition of “in-competition.” Each International Federation (IF) may have a different definition and it may vary by event. For some events, this period may be defined as 12 hours before the start of the competition and different rules may apply to multi-day events (for example, the Olympic Games). It is an athlete’s responsibility to learn the definition of in-competition for the sporting events in which he/she is competing.

Athletes must ensure that all substances prohibited in-competition have been completely cleared from their body before competition. This means the substances are not detected in the sample. It is not possible for USADA to list specific stop times for substances prohibited in-competition. If the on-going or daily use of a substance is needed, or the medication cannot be stopped before an event long enough to allow it to clear from your body, apply for a therapeutic use exemption (TUE).

It is right in the code book page 137, appendix, definitions:

I was trying to copy and paste it but its formatting strange so basically 12 hours from the start of the competition to the end of the competition.

Now since you brought up WTC specifically are you trying to claim there is a gray area including registration? or possibly pro vs AG starts? or is it their specific rule you are saying is hard to find and unclear?

They also have a definition for event period but none of the prohibited substance state anything about event period (that I recall seeing), which could make things more complicated as that seems to be defined by the organizer.

https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/...anti-doping-code.pdf

Estrogen and Progesterone are NOT banned substances on WADA or USADA. There is NO performance enhancement to be gained from taking either one, although they will mitigate menopausal your symptoms. As you pointed out earlier, massive numbers of women are on HRT, including millions who don't even go to the gym, much less even know what a triathlon is. Since any woman can go on HRT if provided with a prescription by her doctor, it is essentially a level playing field if women 40 plus AG's are on them.

Why you would take something like estrogen, which BTW has a NEGATIVE EFFECT ON TESTOSTERONE, if you didn't need it, is just plain insane.

HRT for women (with the exception of testosterones and their pre-cursors like DHEA) is a completely different ballgame than men taking testosterone.

I'm quite surprised to see some like this woman who is essentially a medical professional blindly take DHEA without researching it. In fact, I'm shocked when people would just blindly ingest ANYTHING whether its from their doctor, or off the shelf of Costco.

Considering study after study says that unless you are aging and taking MASSIVE doses of DHEA (like 200MG plus per day) it will have no effect. Furthermore, most women cannot tolerate DHEA in doses more than 50MGs. Secondly, she should fire her doctor and find someone who can actually prescribe the right (aka LEGAL) treatment for her menopausal symptoms.

It is right in the code book page 137, appendix, definitions: [/quote]

What I am trying to claim is that this (from the Wada book):



"Unless provided otherwise in the rules of an



International Federation or the ruling body of the Event in


question, “In-Competition” means the period commencing


twelve hours before a Competition in which the Athlete is


scheduled to participate through the end of such Competition


and the Sample collection process related to such Competition."


Sure makes it sound like I better check with wither the International Federation or with the Ruling Body of the Event before I am comfortable with whether I am or am not in competition. It so happens that WTC publishes a book too:

http://www.ironman.com/...209%201%2011%203.pdf

Appendix 1 page 3 quotes the WADA code verbatim, which is great, but what if it didn't. My point being, if you are 3 days out from a race and a Dr wants to give you predizone, I surely would not feel comfortable reading that WADA excerpt (the very first word is "UNLESS"), I wouldn't feel like I understood where I stood until I read the WTC code (which in this case happens to be the same) since it would seem that they are the "ruling body" of the event.

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Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

Just to clarify, DHEA is perfectly legal in the US, it just happens to be banned by anti-doping agencies. There is a difference between the two.

Also, in my experience (mostly as a coach, working with athletes who get tested), most medical doctors have no idea what medications are banned by WADA/USADA, or which are potentially performance enhancing, and they don't care. It's simply not something they pay attention to, as it's not central to their work. The doctors I know in various specialties confirm this. Even the ones who are also competitive athletes.

So, it's important for athletes to take responsibility for checking the status of this stuff. In the old days all we had was an 800 number, but now with the Global DRO app on a smartphone, you can check things in real time while in your dr's office.

omg ty a million times. i was understanding both Dev and h2ofun to be saying that HRT was illegal and giving a 50yo a 25yo "body".

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit