http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/...sAuthenticated=false

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

Actually, depending on the supplement, it is that simple. Fill out the paperwork, have a doc sign off and submit. When asthma products were on the banned list, that's all it took for me to get a TUE.

The more potent the effect, though, the higher level of testing and scrutiny before it's granted.

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

But, strangely, not during!
(would that it were)

While it is quite true that a certain Canadian Gold medalist became referred to as a "Jamaican" cheat after failing a drug test at the Olympics, I thought your response to Silken was a little over the top (maybe because no one called her a Swedish cheat).

You failed to mention the particular over the counter popular cold medication contained the banned substance in the country she bought it, whereas it did not contain that same banned substance in other countries. She did not set the suspension and she never claimed innocence, only that it was taken on advice from a team physician. Unlike Ben she didn't fail again.

She was a golden girl in the public's eye, because she had suffered a horrific injury and still raced to a medal.

http://www.cbc.ca/...-tests-positive.html You don't have to listen to all of it just the first minute or so.

Pseudoephedrine is no longer banned by the IOC and hasn't been for the last 10 years.

ps It wasn't the Olympics.

Oh, yes, this is an obvious case of turf padding. The more cases they have the more money they can ask Congress for and the wider their remit.

If they had their way, water would be on the list, as it's a known performance enhancing substance.

Why is DHEA even on the list? Why is marijuana? I'll bet there are dozens of questionable substances on the list. It took years to get asthma meds OFF the list.

This woman did not cheat. She broke the rules, but she didn't cheat. Cheating, at least in this context, means you used a substance that conferred an advantage to endurance athletes.

And about a dozen guys on this forum fall for this bureaucratic bullshit all the time....

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

what is more concerning, the punishment for OTC weak drug that was prescribed in place of full synthetic known PED testosterone gives equal punishment. Drink to many coffees and you maybe considered as evil doper as someone on epo

synthetic wrote:

what is more concerning, the punishment for OTC weak drug that was prescribed in place of full synthetic known PED testosterone gives equal punishment. Drink to many coffees and you maybe considered as evil doper as someone on epo

Caffeine is not prohibited, great try though.

DHEA is inconclusive in "normal" individuals, but shows better results in aging or other situations where T is low.
Body composition certainly improves, in additional to increased sex drive, decreased hot-flashes etc.
And frankly no one argues against clenbuterol, when its main purpose was body-comp, so this isn't much different.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-2265.2000.01131.x/abstract?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false
http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/07435800009048561

There really isn't much exercise study in aging populations and DHEA.


You know the conversation went like this:

Patient: Doc, I don't feel like I did when I was 30 anymore. I'm tired, I don't recover as well, I have hot flashes.
Doctor: Let me run some tests, oh look, you're low on hormones because of the natural process of aging... take this DHEA and you'll feel better.
Patient: Sign me up!

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I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

Wow, so you get to define what cheating is? And you get to define which drugs offer a benefit.

..

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

USADA tests where they're either required or requested to do so. They're not required to test at the Pikes Peak Marathon. This was by request.

Per this article.

"Mountain and trail-running races continue to grow in participants and prestige," says Ron Ilgen, President of Pikes Peak Marathon, Inc. Though he says he doubts that any Pikes Peak runners have used PEDs in the past, he believes, "It is important that mountain running joins the ranks with road races in ensuring that our competitors are drug free."

So clearly Ron Ilgen is taking kickbacks from USADA in exchange for letting them "turf pad." And it has nothing to do with ultra-runners having a grass-roots interest in self-policing their sport.

And once Congress hears that USADA has taken on the Pikes Peak Marathon (which no one in Congress has likely ever heard of) with like 500 entrants then the big-time cash is sure to start rolling in.

this is so true. i recently went off maca root as i just didn't think it was doing anything anymore and found "estroven" at Costco and figured i'd try it. it NEVER occurred to me that ingredients could be banned. never crossed my mind....

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

I don't think my response was over the top. Silken was a pro and should have known the rules of engagement. Not sure in another country if the medication is banned or, not, and you can't read the label, then you better not use it. Even age group triathletes going to Kona know better.Silken used the wrong medication and tested positive....this is what we know. Then she back tracked and started pointing to different cold medication boxes. It may have been an honest mistake on her part, but she should be smart enough to know not to play with the fire of taking in anything that COULD put you into a positive test scenario. This applies to Silken, to you, to I, to Kristi who finished 7th at Pikes Peak and anyone going to any race that you can be banned from for taking drugs

...and I can calculate years so maybe the text did not get that across....1995 was the year before the Olympics and she tested positive in a competition that year. Still does not take away that she was a big hopeful for the next year's games. During the Olympics I did cheer for her, but I still did not have much sympathy for her positive test.

dev, seriously? have you been to the womyns forum? we have a number of threads on HRT and addressing menopause symptoms. HRT is pretty much the standard way of treating menopause adn just those of us concerned about estrogen adn breast cancer are on the fence or avoiding HRT. what i'm trying to say is that in menopause HRT (hormone replacement therapy) is the standard and pretty much everyone does it. the only controversy is does estrogen equate to high risk of breast cancer... so saying she knew she needed HRT - well we ALL do once we hit menopause - that is the way pretty much everyone manages their symptoms...

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

As several people have told you, there is no evidence of a benefit to endurance athletes from taking DHEA. If you are fine with USADA making anything it pleases a drug violation then write your Congressman and tell him/her what a good job they are doing keeping such drug scourges as this woman from racing for a year.

USADA should be EMBARRASSED they gave this woman a year suspension. At most, they should have sent her a private letter reprimanding her for taking a drug that confers NO BENEFIT. This penalty reeks of poor judgment and overkill. This is what happens when you give an elephant gun to guys hunting rabbits.... They blow up everything around them including shooting themselves in the foot.

This case should be another nail in the coffin of USADA.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

You should look at the ingredients of *every* supplement. Something called "estroven" would certainly signal an alarm bell with me being one letter removed from "estrogen," and some estrogen-related steroids like estradiol are banned.

USADA has a very helpful site on supplements, and you can also download a list of "high risk" supplements. (which are almost all supplements marketed to the bodybuilding crowd)

Over the years I have read your responses I have always had a good level of respect for your opinion. On this one I am having difficulties.

As for HRT, a few years ago there was an article by a Canadian doctor (don't know why that counts) that started with the idea that any doctor who failed to prescribe HRT should be charged with murder. Menopause is far more devastating for women's health than any perceived "manopause". And that should be recognised by sporting bodies. That most men do not get that is not a surprise.

Which shows why this case helps get the word out that some otc products are banned.

But let's not draw too big of an analogy between your situation and Ms. Anderson's. Are you placing top 10 overall in races that have $10,000 prize purses? Kristi has been, and it was announced during registration that some of those folks would be tested. Which means she had an obligation to her competitors to not consume a substance that could help her performance.

I recognize that some will say the same about you--that you're "cheating someone out of 31st place in your age group." But that's an entirely different argument, and not the issue here.

I also understand the slippery slope argument--that random middle-of-packers will be tested as well. I've come to believe we should worry about that if it starts to happen, even though I haven't always felt that way.

or maybe like this (honestly i have no dog in the fight but it seems like people don't have a clue how debilitating menopause symptoms can be):

pax: doc, i am getting about 2 hours of sleep per night. once i wake up i can't get back to sleep and i have trouble going to sleep in the first place. i have to bring multiple changes of clothing to work because i literally sweat through them in just 1 hot flash (seriously, i work at home and would change my clothing multiple times a day). i have brain fog where i'm worried i'm going to get fired because i no longer can remember people's names let alone work crap.

doc: ah, let me...

pax: and my heart is driving me insane wtih palpitations. i keep thinking i'm going to have a heart attack but i don't have the insurance/funds for a copay to constantly be told "its just menopause". and my husband is ready to leave me - we haven't had sex for 7 months because it just doesn't occur to me anymore and the dryness is debiltating...

doc: ah, HRT!!! YOU NEED HRT!!!

i'll admit this hits close to teh skin because i'm in the midst of 1 year of these "symptoms" and about ready to do HRT but i worry about breast cancer links to HRT... and i used to get sick as a dog when i used to use BCP so there is that too... after you've been dealing with these symptoms for months to years, you too will grasp at any magic a doctor might wave at you.

i don't want to be like i was 30 again but i would like to sleep. i would like to wear the same clothing for more than 2 hours at a time. i would like to workout and be able to recover. i would like to remember things again...

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

The rules are the rules. If you do not like them, do another sport until they change.

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

i agree and i'm looking at them now, but even though i'm aware (i mean i read this forum) it honestly never occurred to me to even check. they're in the vitamin area and it honestly never even occurred to me to check. so it is possible that the same happened to her. especially if it came from her doctor...

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

The threshold limit for psuedoephedrine was 10 micrograms per milliliter in 1995. It's since been increased to 150 micrograms per milliliter, mostly to allow athletes to take the recommended dosage of OTC products to treat colds, etc. The article you linked said that Laumann's concentration was 29 micrograms/milliliter. So, she'd have to take over five times as much Benadryl to exceed the current standard, which would clearly indicate that she wasn't using the drug as it was intended to be used.

USADA doesn't make the list. That's WADA.

DHEA is very clearly on the banned list. The race was very clearly going to be tested. And the she very clearly took DHEA.

The time to complain about the process is *before* you get caught.

I just don't see a lot of athletes complaining about DHEA being on that list. Maybe you can start a Change.org petition asking for WADA to modify their list or asking USADA to selectively enforce? I agree with you about marijuana. That'd get more credibility with me than apologizing for people who get blatantly got doing something blatantly against the rules.

Well, then I guess it's a pretty good thing that most female HRT drugs, including estrogen, are not on WADA's banned substances list.

hmm strange thought caffeine was doping at high doses . I know it is for NCAA:

http://www.kastawayswimwear.com/...l-an-ncaa-drug-test/

Polly like 80% of top athletes are on the gear

[quote kathy_caribei agree and i'm looking at them now, but even though i'm aware (i mean i read this forum) it honestly never occurred to me to even check. they're in the vitamin area and it honestly never even occurred to me to check. so it is possible that the same happened to her. especially if it came from her doctor...[/quote]
I don't know if you have a USAT license or if their license is the same as my USAC license, but I just got mine. Here is what is printed on the back of my license:

USADA Drug Hot Line -
1-866-601-2632 or www.globaldro.org

USADA - www.usada.org
WADA - www.wada-ama.org/en

"My use of this license confirms that I agree to know and abide by the appliciable rules and regulatiosn of USA Cycling and the UCI, including the anti-doping rules and procedures as set forth by USADA, the UCI or WADA and that I agree to submit to any drug test organized under the rules by the UCI, USA Cycling, USADA or the official anti-doping authority of a foreign country where I am competing."

Also, on the tear away portion was an explicit statment that OTC supplements that reads like this:

WARNING: Using any form of dietary supplement may result in a positive test for prohibited

substances leading to a suspension and/or other penalties. Vitamins, minerals, herbs, amino

acids and other dietary supplements may contain prohibited or illegal substances that may or

may not be listed on the label. Any athlete who takes a vitamin, mineral, herb, amino

acid, or other dietary supplement does so at his or her own risk of committing a
doping violation.

I suspect that a USA Triathlon license has the same information on it. Short of visiting every single licensed member I don't know what more they can do to inform their user base.

Putting these words in Google search
USA triathlon supplements

I got a lot of hits for articles on www.usatriathlon.org

The information is out there. If people choose not to read it... Well, we can read their blog postings when they get caught.

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Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
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