OK. Where's this evidence of AGers being tested in competition at times other than immediately after the race?" If this is a practice, or even a risk worth worrying about, then it should be readily documented. (I've heard talk about people getting pulled out of line during packet pickup, but does this really happen?)


AG testing is an anomaly in itself. The rare testing of AGers is nearly always, if not always, limited to the pointy end of the field. And the testing seems to always or nearly always happen immediately after the race.

The subject of this thread is a top AG runner that was tested immediately after the race. "In competition" for her didn't mean the day before the race.

No AG's are in the OCC testing pool.

Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that she admits to being on a testosterone and estrogen program (without TUE's), but did not test positive for either? That is what DHEA is good for!

Most of you know very little of which you speak. As someone new to ST, I do find it interesting to read though.

I've read at least one very detailed writeup here of an AG athlete being pulled out of line during registration and tested. That would be OCC at the time he was tested.

If you are going to post that people don't know what they are talking about, at least ensure everything you claim in that same post is correct.

.

Kevin Moats was dinged in an OOC test...Sometime in January, I believe.

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"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz

I guess it is a matter of semantics. If one is representing the federation in international competition, that may be the case, or he may still have a pro license. If you are not in the OCC pool, no one is showing up at your house anytime soon. Aka ever.

Or he got popped once without it being made public. Everyone that has faced any violation is automatically in OCC pool.

"That established, since the Moats case WTC has changed its approach to doping and the text upon which Moats relied for his reduced sentence is no longer found. Further, some athletes report being moved from the WTC out-of-competition testing pool to a pool administered by USADA, suggesting WTC is quietly divesting itself of a separate anti-doping program (we've learned, for example, that WTC no longer grants TUEs, "

He was in the WTC pool. He sued. They changed their rules. Now we use USADA rules.

Thanks for leading me to the facts.

You can't tell everyone they are wrong then claim semantics when you are shown to be wrong.



You will fit in here though so I guess there is that.

Not the same as the out of competition testing pool. In fact I would consider that more like in competition testing even though it sounds like the race was the next day. Those athletes have to account for where they are going to be every day and let USADA (in the US) know where they will be EVERY SINGLE DAY.

http://www.usada.org/testing/whereabouts/

Overview

An important part of USADA’s testing program is the ability to test athletes without any advance notice in an out-of-competition setting. Athletes are subject to testing 365 days a year and do not have “off-seasons” or cutoff periods in which testing does not occur. Whereabouts information, (dates, times, locations, etc.) is information submitted to USADA by an athlete that allows the athlete to be located for out-of-competition testing.

60-Minute WindowAny athlete who is in the USADA International Testing Pool (ITP) must provide a specific 60-minute time slot every day between 5 a.m. – 11 p.m. that anchors the athlete to a specific location. The athlete chooses the 60-minute time slot to fit their schedule and must be available and accessible for testing at a specific location during the entire 60-minute time slot. Please note that USADA can choose to, and does test athletes outside of the their 60-minute window. You will be directly notified of your inclusion in the international testing pool.

That is for elite athletes and is totally different from pulling somebody out of line at registration or targeted testing.

People in the whereabouts testing pool are told that they are in the pool and are required to file quarterly where they will be on a day to day basis and then update as necessary due to schedule changes.

BTW, the woman in who this thread is about can expect to be tested during her suspension period. Suspended athletes are routinely tested during their enforced vacations. No matter what level of competition, elite, masters, etc. For example, Richard Meeker got tested twice last year before his suspension ended in early September. Joe Papp got tested in 2014, etc. They will almost surely show up at her house one day.

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Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava

Well I guess I should have stuck with my original statement about the OCC pool. I did not know that WTC ran their own at one time. Long after WADA was devised in 2004 also, which kind of surprises me.

"Everyone that has faced any violation is automatically in OCC pool."

i don't think that's how it works. if you're in the OOC pool you must register with ADAMS and keep your whereabouts up to date. i don't think that's a regimen very many AGers are willing to sit still for, nor should they. however, you do not need to be in the OOC pool to be tested OOC. being in the OOC pool just means you've got the added responsibility of registering whereabouts.

really, if you want to catch a doper you suspect it seems to me the very best thing is to NOT have them in the OOC pool. there are DCOs all over the world, all testing authorities contract with them. just have a DCO go test a guy, if you know where he's going to be (and it's not that hard to know where he's going to be, such as, if he's a triathlete and he regularly attends a swim workout).

this is exactly how the most recent dopers were caught by the WTC.

heck, i know a guy who got popped because USADA sent a DCO to his regular club team weekly bike ride. "sit down, all you gentlemen in the "xxx" kits, you're all going to be here for awhile."

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

All these people you claim to know would be listed here.

http://www.usada.org/...g/results/sanctions/

Complete list of tested athletes can be found here.

http://www.usada.org/...thlete-test-history/

"All these people you claim to know would be listed here."

actually, not. the list you reference is of athletes for which USADA is the results management authority. in the case of WTC's pops, one was a brazilian athlete if i'm not mistaken, and the other was, as i recall, also not a U.S. athlete.

in the club cyclist's case, his particular situation was interesting. as i recall, and according to him, he was given a retroactive TUE which is not common. nevertheless it does happen. my point in bringing it up is that USADA, and WTC, may very well just decide to show up and pop you, age grouper or pro, and you don't have to be in the OOC for that to happen.

ironman's doping program is unique in the world of WADA signatories. it's really the only standalone signatory with its own anti-doping program that runs parallel to and in concert with federation and NADO efforts. if you're interested in how it works it's written about, here on slowtwitch.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

That is interesting. Thanks. Do you know if WTC is a signator of WADA?

Anyhow, this is getting way off the topic of Kristi, whom I actually know socially. Don't buy her story. We live in a town rife with people developing muscle mass well into their 50's. It is getting out of control. Sad really.

"That is interesting. Thanks. Do you know if WTC is a signator of WADA?"

i know they are. we've written a lot about this here on slowtwitch. there's a loooong story as to how this all came about. it was the result of a pissing match between an old former president of the ITU and an old former president of WTC. basically, WTC was left to fend for itself, out from under the international federation umbrella but still operating under national federation umbrellas. but, bottom line, there was no drug testing going on, so it initiated its own anti doping program. this was back in, oh, maybe 2004 or 2005. it became what is known as a "federation equivalent."

that's why i write that WTC is really not like anything else. it's now back under the federation umbrella fully, everybody gets along, but it still has its own anti-doping program, which it runs in close consult with USADA and others.

as for the lady who is the subject of this thread i have no knowledge nor opinion.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that she admits to being on a testosterone and estrogen program (without TUE's), but did not test positive for either? That is what DHEA is good for!

Okay, no she said "my levels of testosterone and estrogen are non-existent". She did NOT admit to using either one, and secondly, estrogen is NOT a performance-enhancing drug. Women are NOT tested for it as a banned substance!

Estrogen receptor modulators (prescribed mostly for osteoporosis), most certainly are on the banned list. TUE eligible though.

Read all of her public comments.

You are operating under the false notion that ergogenic properties are all that matter wrt doping.

Possessing proven ergogenic properties are neither a necessary nor sufficient reason for a substance or method to be included on the prohibited list. Read the code.

Everyone who races (especially competitively) should make themselves aware of th WADA rules. If you are on ANY medications, you should double check WADA. While your GP might think it's good for you, that's not enough. You need to race clean. It is your responsibility to ensure you are clean. If you have been tested and your doc has you on meds for something on the WADA list then you can apply for a TUE, select a different medication, or simply accept that you are no longer clean, and decline from racing.

I know it will be a shock for a lot of people, but racing isn't actually life. It might be a big part, but it's not actually life.

I'm on various meds for my heart etc and I've checked WADA and I always make sure I note my meds on entry forms (as well as filling in next of kin and such). And to cover all my bases, I use a permanent marker and put DNR on my chest, complete with my signed initials beside it. (for those that don't know, DNR is Do Not Resusitate)

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Drunk on a bike will get you a DUI here in New Zealand at least. I will note however that on the several ocassions that I've ridden home after friday drinks on my bike, that police checkpoints have always just waved me through.

In the town where my wife is from, a local farmer got DUI for driving home drunk from from the pub. Several months later he got done riding drunk on his motorbike. Finally when he got caught riding his horse home from the pub, in the roadside ditch, he stopped going to the pub! Mind you, that was over 25 years ago now.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Interesting list. I see lance is the only one I could find with life!
Clearly the naughtiest of the naughty.

He was offered the same lightweight sentence as Hincapie, Zabriskie et al. He turned it down.

Actually if you go down the list there are lots of others, cycling, T&F etc…..some obscure names who have lifetime bans….

OTOH why do so many weight lifters and wrestlers smoke pot??

Maurice