Until it happens to you (except that most of us are not good enough to be tested). No one disagrees the cheaters suck but there are so many that are either unable/unwilling to understand that sometimes an athlete can do everything right (print the 411 sheet out, eat clean, monitor, etc.) and still test for traces because of things outside of their control and even prove that. Whether people are unwilling to because they feel it makes their own inability to best that athlete, human nature that loves to see others fall from the top, or whatever reason, I feel for you.

Wake up? I am fully aware that there are cheaters but I'm not going to spend my life thinking everyone sucks because a few do. I don't have the time and energy to and if someone can prove their innocence, I can only trust that until they give me reason not to (not that my opinion should matter to them).

Guilty until proven innocent here and even after being proven innocent, still guilty because ST says so.

How much Ostarine was in it? Is that even enough to make a difference if you really didn't want to cheat?

I get what you are saying, but that seems more risky and time consuming than someone testing their own batches and then taking ostartine. Did they publish the batch numbers? Or would they have to ask that pro?

DomerTri-- that's a very fair point. And I agree. Unfortunately, in this case the athletes were proven guilty and it seems like most people are now defending them. I really, really hope that it was just a mix up, and that contamination caused the positives. However, with 4 female athletes now testing positive in the last year or two, I have my doubts.

---

https://twitter.com/mungub

Guilty for having traces of the substance in their system but at least one being able to prove that the salt tab that was not identified previously as suspicious had traces of ostarine. I say traces but like most on here, don't actually know what amount that is. I'm giving benefit of the doubt to at least Barnett and feel bad for Beth as she likely was in a similar situation but didn't have a saved sealed bottle to test.

We just don't have enough information to rush to judgment but that isn't stopping anyone from doing so even though the info we have shows more innocence than guilt. There are always more details that can't be shared due to potential litigation but we all seem to think we are owed those details (and NOW) or they must be hiding something.

Honest question...

Would traces of ostarine coming from a cross-contaminated supplement be in high enough concentration that it would cause a positive test? I don't know the answer, or the tolerance levels involved.

---

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

And I have the same question.

Good question, and I think that that is what the chemist guy way up in this thread posted. Further, how quickly does this stuff get into the bloodstream or urine? An IM lasts what, 9 hours for the fastest of these women. A 70.3 4-4.5 or so. Is this stuff super fast to get into the urine like beets or asparagus or does it take longer? So, you take some salt on the bike (or was it run), and within a few hours there's enough of a cross-contaminated banned substance in the blood to trigger a positive result? I'm just spit-balling here as Dan would say.

---

Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

Thanks, those insights explain the source of your passion for clean sport.

My question remains, how do you know about the off-label protocols for using these drugs as PEDs? You did a great job articulating the benefits of Ostarine and the protocol for using it as a PED. How do you (and others) know this? I'd never heard of Ostarine, let alone had a clue about how to use it.

I'm not surprised by doping, but feel very naive about the sophistication of underground pharma.

Scott

First Endurance reaction...... http://firstendurance.com/...d-substance-process/

I think it's WTC doesn't want to spend money going to court when the athlete pursues, therefore they make a deal.

And Beth is a smart girl, she would actually take something worth her while if in fact she was doping, which she wasn't!

Good old fashioned research. Google is your friend. If you filter through all of the meatheads using the stuff, there is endless pages actual research done on the stuff. Start at the US National Library of Medicine.

And only women doping on Ostarine. Must be all the latest rage amongst the ladies!

Not sure if it's the latest rage or bad luck but in the past couple years more women (in tri anyway) are testing positive for Ostarine than any other substance, that I'm aware of.


FWIW, there have been men in other sports who have tested positive for Ostarine.

And men test positive for testosterone. Its all the rage! So?

This logic just kills me. Even if it was inadvertent, the drug is still a performance enhancing drug. The argument of "I'd have taken EPO if I wanted to cheat" is not a good defense. The drug does something. That's why it is banned.

I'd expect a smart person to take something like this that doesn't have the negative side effects of T and is beneficial in endurance sports.

---

https://twitter.com/mungub

I'll be the first to admit that when it comes to cheating...I do have real anger issues. I'm probably not alone. If you really want to see someone with anger issues, go talk to the triathletes (or any athlete) that have been cheated. Look at the numbers. Prior to the recent sanctions, 5 triathletes total (3 male/2 female) have ever received sanctions. 683 triathletes were tested in 2016. You do the math. Occam's razor. Who should you really be sticking up for?

now that's realtalk

This is the same company that advertises that one of their products increases VO2 max and anaerobic threshold. Which means it is either a PED or fools gold.

I'm not a user of this, but did see they sent this out on FB. Hopefully a few of the legit suppliers will use this as an avenue to clarify their sourcing and integrity. We certainly could use a shake out of the supplement vendors!

Can we get a name???

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

What you suggest is simply not feasible unless perhaps you are one of the highest paid athletes. Are you expecting everyone to bring a mobile lab with them and test out samples of everything before they even eat food at a restaurant? Even local water supplies are known to contain prescription drugs in them. It's easy to armchair quarterback this stuff but athletes are people too and you can't expect them to live in quarantined bubble all year round.

And this is the problem...we will not get enough information and it will eventually die out. Foul play anyone?? Bueller??!

First, let's address how a standard drug test works; I will use marijuana as an example. Certain drugs are known to produce false positives (poppy seeds on your bagel = opioids). False Positives occur around 7-8%; on the other end of that is False Negatives at 12-13%, (though more common, no one cares about these). To help control these false-alarms, there are Federal Guidelines setting threshold levels for positive results in certain substances. THEN there are the substances that produce very few false positives/negatives. In short, the white stuff is the white stuff, there's no mistaking this. There are meds, seeds, etc. 'things' that can trigger false positives, but it is pretty clear on a test to see whether something was ingested and if it was done intentionally. Your kid can be in a room with Tommy Chong and it is not going to trigger false positive results, no matter what they claim. Getting back to threshold levels; they're set to filter out the 'accidental contamination' and false positives by triggering the alarm only at levels that are more or less...blatantly intentional. For Ostarine to show up on a test it would take levels that are taken consistently and not accidentally.

Okay, so you're still innocent and your supplement was contaminated? Then tell us what supplement it is. Admitting to ingesting contaminated salt tabs but not giving any info beyond that very general statement and a loophole that has gotta be closed. Admitting you ingested a banned substance by contamination and receiving a 6-month suspension is essentially a plea deal. Oh, the suspension is already over? Funny, because the news flash came out yesterday... That is laughable. I feel terrible for the athlete that is sticking to her guns but getting a 2-year ban because she did not admit fault. At least there's some integrity to this claim of contamination. The 6-month suspension (that is already over) is a cowards deal and does nothing for the anti-doping cause.

Ostarine is popular with the ladies because it is an effective way to build lean muscle without the un-ladylike side effects of testosterone. AKA. Facial hair and enlarged privates (no need to go into detail).

Maybe I missed it but who got a "deal"? The athlete doesn't get to choose their punishment. Proving the tab was contaminated was all they did which would show the salt they say was expected to be clean was in fact contaminated. Whether you believe that or not is up to you.

So one admitted fault and one didn't? You mean one happened to have proof and the other didn't have the same? They're both saying the same thing but one had a bottle still sealed; you don't have one admitting guilt and not the other.

But you go ahead and keep being angry at the world.

Exactly. No one got a "deal" and he called it the cowards deal? Please. This is misinformation at its finest. She got a lesser penalty because she could prove that the drug was in an unopened package of salt tabs. That's all.

You must show me the link that shows this 'proof' with some facts. A statement saying that she provided proof is just that, a statement saying she provided proof. But it does nothing to establish the validity of the statement because there's no facts! She 'conclusively proved' that tabs in her possession were contaminated...okay, go on! How did she prove this? The salt tabs in her possession were contaminated. Okay, were these also the salt tabs she was taking? Was she even taking salt tabs? These should all be simple answers but noone knows. If she has conclusively proved this then there should be supporting facts. Tell us the facts. Cmon GomerTriGuy!