I am genuinely curious on how to resolve your statement saying "why the various scenarios about athletes doping and then blaming it on a supplement don't hold water", with the following article:

http://firstoffthebike.com/...how-big-is-the-risk/

Important paragraph from the article (emphasis theirs): A recent investigation released by LGC (an international supplement testing company) tested 67 supplement products from Australian internet sites and retail stores (all
supplements tested were not part of any testing program). What they found was incredibly alarming – ONE in FIVE supplements showed contamination with a banned substance – with 2 of the 67 supplements showing such high levels of the banned substance that deliberate adulteration could not be ruled out.
The most common items found was banned stimulants and anabolic steroids…….1 in 5 supplements tested showed contamination with a banned substance.
Thoughts?

Also note that 2003 pre-dates WADA, so hard to really compare.

The more relevant case is Jessica Hardy - http://www.usada.org/...ploads/hardy-cas.pdf but even there, that's almost 10 years ago.

Though, again, I think Jessica's case today might be different given that you now have these third party certification programs.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

I would like to see the list of those 67 supplements. As I said, if you look at the HRL, yes, a lot of these supplements contained banned substances. BUT THEY ALSO TELL YOU THEY DO RIGHT ON THE LABEL. And even among those 37 supplements that don't list a banned substance on the label, the overwhelming majority have names that should raise a red flag.

My point here is not that spiking and contamination doesn't happen. It's that contamination and spiking happens in the exact sort of products you'd expect.

What percentage of those 67 supplements were seemingly innocuous things like Vitamin C, Vitamin D, electrolyte pills, sports drink mix, etc? And what percentage were things that offered to turn you into a Demigod or to unleash your inner Wooly Mammoth?

Especially based on this sentence - "The most common items found was banned stimulants and anabolic steroids" - that leads me overwhelmingly to believe the supplements they tested were things where it's not entirely surprising that they found stimulants and anabolics. Those are precisely the sorts of ingredients you find in supplements that advertise fat burning, massive gains, and all kinds of other very dubious results.

That was the precise point of my article. At least, that was what I intended. A little bit of diligence and a little bit of common sense is going to go a long way towards keeping you safe. It's the athletes who are attempting to discredit the system who imply that "God of Rage" and a bottle of 400IU of Vitamin D are equally likely to be spiked; but I can't find any actual evidence supporting that claim.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Thank you for your reply. I have attempted to find what specific supplements they had tested but so far no luck. It just seems like there is a lot of grey, when we assume doping control is fairly black-and-white.

That's been a massive revelation for me, and also something that I want to share. It's also something that I've tried very hard to express directly to WADA, to USADA, and to Ironman on multiple occasions. WADA's stance is that things ARE black and white. And yet the realities of how things are implemented makes it clear that the reality is very grey.

Of course, this is not really all that different from any "regular" set of laws either. The written law is pretty black and white that jaywalking is illegal. And yet...

Without venturing too much into Lavender Room territory, I think this is at the heart of the idea of "textualism" and whether or not it's actually reasonable.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

So I brought up Vencill because honestly most people in the sport thought he was innocent. Hardy...not so much. But as there are no facts backing that up not sure why I think that...

I have seen many many products like this which are later banned due to really bad side effects, from herbal travel sickness tablets causing sever psychosis to diet products causing permanent heart damage.

Triathletes are unfortunately performing very hungry for sponsors etc as the sport is not rich. However , a good pro should at least ask themselves the question what would the consequences be for them if the product was later banned?

The difference between this plant extract and iron supplements is that the side effects (and there are some) are very well understood and anyone using them are careful to follow doses and get checked to ensure they do not overuse.

Where are the studies for side effects for this herb? Is a later heart condition worth a slightly shorter recovery?

Coaches should be taking a strong stance to protect their athletes from using untested products.

In my long history in this field I know that there never is an elixir of life without something to pay down the track.

http://www.bscg.org/
http://www.nsf.org/...s-supplement-testing


If you really want to test drug free, use nothing without a label such as those provided by the companies above. There is very little difference in cost between the brands which use this outside organisation to provide GMP testing and quality control, and those who don't. Yet the quality of production is guaranteed to be better and the product safer. Even just from a hygiene point of view.


If athletes demand this kind of testing before they buy the supplement, manufacturers will be forced to up their game.

Those sites are definitely helpful, thank you. However, I have been offered products on-course at ironman races that I couldn't find after a search of that list on the NSF site (an admittedly cursory search). So hopefully race organizations are taking steps to ensure that the products they are offering athletes are safe, as it is not reasonable to expect an athlete to carry absolutely every nutrition and hydration product of their own for an entire race.

I would really hope that organizers only use products which have been produced in certified factories. Maybe athletes need to ask for this especially in the light of yhese two cases. One of these women did actually question whether the race products were to blame. The organizers need to ensure they can well defend such claims. It is not hard to do. I am sure the reputable brands would price well and love to sponsor events.

USA swimming has a one-sheet guideline, suggests the following warning signs in addition to lightning bolts, 'hard', 'dragon juice', etc..

-“Andro-”*** or "Nor" (Prohibited!)
-"Anabol" or "Diol"*** or "Test”***
-"Reduces water retention"***
-“Energizer” or “Energy”***
-“Weight Loss”***
-“Muscle Builder” or “Stack” or “Stak” ***
***Likely to be or contain prohibited
substances.
Avoid ALL products from companies that
manufacture any of the above or any other
prohibited substances.

The NY AG tested a bunch of supplements from major retailers, found four out of five were either contaminated or did not contain any of the advertised ingredients, or both.

Every time anyone does supplement testing there are findings like this,
"In 2005 vitamin C, multivitamin and magnesium tablets were confiscated, which contained cross-contaminations of stanozolol and metandienone."
You'd expect to be safe with vitamin c..

Thank Senators Hatch (R) and Harkin (D) for deregulating FDA control of supplements with the DSHEA in 1994. This removed much of the FDA's control over dietary supplements and created an essentially unregulated industry. Looks like the magic of free markets isn't quite working here..

WHAT??? someone elses urine? where did you find that information.
that is more than strange

Athletes don't look for contaminated products they are looking for safe products. Meaning if it doesn't show up or all of the ingredients don't show up with green ticks, DONT take it. easy !!
Neurolytes wouldn't come up as safe as it contains a herbal supplement. All of the ingredients actually would not have come up with the green tick because rhodiola is a herbal and so therefore not regulated. That means "may or may not be a safe product, take at your own risk". Essentially if the product an athlete wants doesn't show up with green ticks (or as a not quite so safe second option, all the ingredients have a green tick) then you find one which does. It is quite simple really. I am sure there are many salt tablets which are very safe, and every ingredient would show on the safe list but the athlete chose not to take them.