Thanks to everyone for chiming in
natethomas wrote:
In terms of the group dynamics, I do almost all of my riding inside and the only person I ride with outside is occasionally my wife (and my FTP is at least twice hers). I find that if I can average 4 w/kg or higher I can generally sit in the front group of most Zwift races and rides - it's of course much higher at the start and on climbs.
I think therein lies the problem. The B-grade rides are for people with FTP ~4 w/kg or lower. If i were to do close to 4 w/kg at the front, i'd be too spent to do anything
Quote:
In terms of TT routes, I often use the desert and just do out and backs. I don't have to worry that much about choosing routes except at the two turn-around spots - yes boring, but it's easy to hold consistent power. I've also done the Watopia perimeter loop going out the desert, then out to the Voclano and back to the main starting area - that loop is around 16 miles. I like a Sat ride that does 100km in around 2:10-2:12 - I aim for an average of ~4 w/kg during the ride and it's good prep for 70.3 races. The last two times I've done that ride have been the Watopia loop.
Is this the Ascender's Ride at ~6pm EST?
I'll give the perimeter loop a try (though IIRC, it's not a selectable route)
TheMan232 wrote:
I know you said Watopia, but Richmond Prefer Flat Roads (or whatever they're calling it post-update now) is one of my favorite TT courses. Flat as a pancake and interesting to look at.
I tried that a few times. It's fine for racing, but somehow I just don't like it for TT training. Similarly, the London Greater Flat course should be ideal for what I need, but I also find it somehow depressing. Don't really know why...
mikemelbrooks wrote:
echappist wrote:
First is the pack surfing. I don't know if it's due to the physics they are using, but it appears that drafting gives little advantage and that there's a big penalty to being not in the draft.
I can't seem to make sense of what your saying.
Either drafting gives you an advantage and not being in the draft is a big penalty. Or Drafting gives little advantage and not being in the draft is a small penalty. You cant have it both ways.
Anyway if you want to experiment with drafting and riding in packs join a group ride most will turn into a race if there is no barrier, Also you make no mention of your weight Zwift is all abouts Watt per kilo on all but the flattest course.
You are right, my post wasn't as clear as it should have been. The drafting advantage is compared to those driving the group.
The advantage in Zwift is not saving in power needed to keep up (definition of a significant draft). The advantage is increased overall pack speed (as a result of reduced pack CdA), thus giving the pack advantage relative to the break or chasers.
Say in real life (no wind, almost all flat) that one needs 300 W to ride 25 mph solo. In a group of 20, the guy driving things in the front may need to generate ~290 W (b/c having someone drafting also reduces CdA). In the same group, those who are trailing needs only ~200 W to keep up. After breaking away, if one maintains 310 W, one will pull away from this group. Or if one somehow gets tailed off, if one maintains 310 W, one will close the gap to the group.
This doesn't happen in Zwift. Instead of significant power savings experienced by the drafters, what happens is a much reduced CdA for the pack, thus allowing it to move faster.
From one of my rides on the Zwift desert route (after the oasis, heading toward the main climb). Solo, 290W gives 26.4 mph on Tron bike (mass of 71 kg).
In a group where no one is doing more than 4 w/kg (even those on the front), I'm moving at 28.3 mph while doing 225W. So yes, there is an aero benefit, but it's not remotely comparable to what we experience IRL. The question is, how is 290W solo worth only 26.4 mph, when a similar power driving on the front yields speed almost 2 mph faster in a group (when everyone is on a road bike). That level of CdA drop is what I experience going from my road bike to my TT bike...
DFW_Tri wrote:
I think that was his point. *I think* he is suing that, in his experience, the manner of which the software deals with drafting is not real-world accurate in that you don’t get a big advantage when you are in it but if you drop out, it kills you.
yep, you put it a lot better than I initially did
brando wrote:
I do laps on Tick Tock all the time - it's a 10.5 mile loop. The ~4 mile stretch through the desert from the Rock Arch to Saddle Springs is the hardest as it seems to blur together, but once you climb out of the desert, get down to Ocean Blvd, make a few turns and head back past the start point, there seem to be
enough features/turns/changes every 1-1.5 miles or so to have something to see on the map and mentally tick off and it goes by pretty fast.
thank you. That's the type of scenery change I need. I can take ~10-15 minutes of the desert (and it actually is kinda nice), but I need a change of scenery to get me to 30 minutes
Chapeau to all of you who can tough it out on Tick Tock for hours