That's exactly right. If there's no harm, there's no criminal charge. I can butt slap my wife all day, because I know she likes it.

You mean like when a guy beats his wife to an inch away from death and she doesn't want to file a police report? Personally I am pretty happy that hospitals in my neck of the woods take action in cases like that, even though it is against the will of the victim

I made an edit to basically suggest as you conclude this could have ended very differently, and that was my take away, it was very much a blurred action. And I don't necessarily care whether it was assault or not in the end, in that type of instance I don't see much difference in the 2 actions. Most especially as she didn't even know the person and it was a very suggestive action she did. Essentially the "intent" was the same. So in that instance, I don't necessarily care whether it was laughed off as good fun, it's not really "excuseable" behavior.

ETA: But because of where it happened and the "background" of the action it's "cool". Do that on the streets of any other setting and you'd likely be called out. Do that in that particular setting that's "tradition".

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

That's different, because harm can be clearly demonstrated. I fully support a DA bringing charges in that case. But if someone under no duress, and with no physical evidence of harm laughs off a kiss and says it was fun, I think we should allow the DA the discretion in trusting the testimony of the "victim" and not bringing charges. E.g. I think near 100% of DAs would bring charges in your example, but near 100% wouldn't in the kissing case. And that's pretty much as it should be.

I agree that it was a pretty dumb social experiment. She admits as much. I'm just making the case that it's not worthy of criminal charges.

Yeah, sort of like on New Year's Eve. Even in the "tradition" case, though, I've found it pretty easy to navigate the gray areas. E.g. on New Year's Eve it's pretty easy to very quickly establish consent with strangers with a little eye contact and smile as the person's coming in. Or a lean-away and hand up if you're not into that.

They're rarely "attack kisses." I have no idea if the example given here was an "attack kiss" or not. The butt-slap definitely had no opportunity for any sort of consent. Also nothing traditional about butt-slapping reporters on-air.

If this is not worthy of charges why is the initial incident worthy. Two people randomly touching individuals inappropriately

For crying out loud, the butt-slap was wholly inappropriate, given that the recipient was unaware of what was going to happen. The random kiss was not some woman sneaking up on an unsuspecting guy and planting a kiss on him (which would have been pretty much equivalent to the butt-slap). The kiss was negotiated beforehand: look at the man's posture, and consider that the man's friend was prepared and able to take a well-composed photo of the kiss. Nobody involved in the kiss: not the man, not the woman, not the man's friend, thought the kiss was "inappropriate" at the time and afterwards.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I can't tell if you're being sincere, or playing some rhetorical game.

I can't lay out my rationale any more plainly than I think I have, so I think we're just going to have to amicably part ways, here.

But you’re never giving the “victim” a chance to consent. It’s just a roll of the dice. If they like it, you’re golden, and they feature you on the evening news as some kind of love story. If you take a chance and they are appalled, then suddenly you’re on the evening news for a very different reason.

If the female reporter was slapped by Matthew McConaughey instead of a 32min 5k “nobody”, would the reaction be different? If the reaction is different but the action was the same, is the “crime” different?

As for the New Year’s example mentioned above, after all that’s transpired, is anyone suggesting that “eye contact” is sufficient consent to go plant one on a stranger at the stroke of midnight?

I agree that touching strangers can be massively risky. And that everyone should take care on choosing when and where to attempt it. Or don't attempt it at all. No argument from me on that point.

My only argument has been about why some end up being criminal charges, and some don't, even when some of the circumstances are very similar. Because the perception of violation by the person on the receiving end absolutely matters. A lot.

If the female reporter was slapped by Matthew McConaughey instead of a 32min 5k “nobody”, would the reaction be different? If the reaction is different but the action was the same, is the “crime” different?

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It's just a guess but I would think this would have turned out much happier and more like the "marathon kisser" than what transpired and even if the celeb "violated" her in the same exact way. Trail talks about the "gray area" and imo the celeb would be able to get away with hella lot more than the average joe. They'd have put on that charm and it'd have just been excused as being "cheeky" and oh by the way next thing you know they suddenly have movie tickets or concert tickets w VIP etc etc. So all would be forgiven.

Hell didnt Sagan do this to a podium girl 4 or 5 years ago and he got some backlash but nothing like the "assault" that I had heard potentially with this case. So I guess Trail nailed it best in that there's all kinds of gray with these real world issues.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

To that point, I’m not entirely comfortable with “justice” being at the whim of the “victim’s” feelings. Equal punishment for equal crimes, right? So in the eyes of the law how can one person be charged with sexual assault and another person go on their way with a glowing news story?

This whole things is overblown. He didn’t violently or sexually assault anyone. He didn’t take anyone’s “power”. He pulled an immature stupid prank on the wrong person. It was poor judgment. Call him out for being a prick and be done with it.

celebrity its okay

Man who is not celebrity bad

I think its all bad and they should all be held to same standard of account.

Aha. I thought all kinds of assaults included wife beating.

One of the differences I see between the two events of getting slapped from behind when the reporter had no idea it was coming, and getting kissed from the front, was a potential opportunity to defend one's self. I'm not saying forceably kissing someone from the front is ok, just pointing out an additional element of the butt slap.

People may try to maintain a sense of vigilence, allowing them to calculate the risks of their surroundings. But a different level of fear and distrust is invoked when what you believe about an environment, see with your eyes, is not accurate because someone has acted from behind.

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To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.

From what I can find about the kiss there is no indication of forcible kissing. I just don’t see the two situations as comparable.

I don't either. I get the idea of attempting to navigate one form of contact as inappropriate, the other as not getting the same kind of attention. But the example chosen isn't the right one for calling out hipocracy, assuming that was the poster's intent (not B_Doug... (I can't remember the spelling), rather the person sharing the youtube video).

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To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.

Go back to Sagan pinching the podium girl. He embarrassed her to the point she nearly slapped him. She was that shocked but then didn’t really turn into anything else. Remember the aftermath?


It was “should podium girls even be there anymore”. Yes he apologized but there was no “he took my innocence” or he should be charged with sexual misconduct. It was basically wtf did he do it and not to do it again.

So I think a lot of of it circumstances and I think the other gent was wanting to show the hypocrisy in how they are all dealt with. As I said I have no doubt if this was an celeb the “reaction” from everyone would have been very different imo. I think that’s sorta the weirdness that some were wanting to showcase.

A lady runs up to a stranger and kisses him and it’s “celebrated”. This guys life basically gets turned upside down. Sagan does same thing and it was “Sagan being Sagan” and come on he was just being cheeky.


So check your surroundings when you do inappropriateness? That seemingly is the gist of it, not actually “respect others” no matter what. That I think is the hypocrisy he was wanting to highlight.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

The smacking perpetrator was arrested yesterday, charged with sexual battery misdemeanor

Serious question: what if he felt pressured by the situation or the "environment" and later on he regretted it? What if he realizes he didnt want to do that and her request took him by surprise?

See my post #125 for 3 shining examples of equivalence, or arguably more egregious offenses where absolutely nothing happened to this extent. One of them happened on live tv, the other two were being recorded. All in public, and all female offenders and male victims. Zero outrage. Zero jobs lost.

How do we explain, and tolerate, the acceptance of those instances of sexual battery but not the one in this thread?

He's responsible for his actions; he can regret all he wants, but it is on him that he chose his actions.

Feel free to get to your actual point.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

FIFY. Reads a bit differently now, doesn't it?

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Frankly because we just do *most* of the time. That's really the hypocrisy of it all, and frankly we are really mostly just flawed most of the time in our judgements....So as trail put it, there's a whole lot of "gray" area to it, and that's how we behave and think.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II