except everyone knew that smoking a joint was not a big deal, and that pot laws were made to discriminate against people who were black and hispanic.

women have never enjoyed being smacked in the ass by strangers, it has always been, and will always be unwanted.

bluemonkeytri wrote:

I have 2 words for you. Frank Meza. The internet does get out of control on this type of stuff, and it leads to tragic consequences.

Frank may have had some long-lingering mental health issues. His outing set him off and he went down a very bad path

It seems like [this guy] is just a dick

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

if you want to name this guy, okay, assuming he has been charged. do we know he's been charged? or at least positively identified? and if we do name him, please get the name right. you can drive a truck between "callaway" and "callahan", which is how you named him. (i qualify now for the senior discount in most places, so i'm the last guy to harsh on the odd biden moment!)

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Cute

Dan,

How is this thread triathlon related? Wouldn't this belong to Lavender Room? Can it be moved there (not deleted)?

If someone sucker punched a man and ran, biked or swam away, would it be on the triathlon forum?

It's not like the triathlon forum was needed to catch him.

Don't agree or defend what this guy did and wonder why the OP didn't post it in the Lavender Room.

---

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

it's here because the OP placed it here; it seemed sort of relevant because it happened during a run; and i tend not to want to change a user's preference except when i really have to (moderation with a light touch). but i see your point, and it was kind of a borderline call. could have gone either way. i can still stick it over there. really up to the community. whatever y'all think is best.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

There are several separate ideas here that are being intermixed unnecessarily.

First idea: a slap on the ass IS a real problem. If I heard everyone agree about that, I would feel pretty good about this little episode.

Second idea: the punishment should fit the crime. I don’t think anyone wants to see the butt-slapper’s life destroyed. No one is asking for jail time. He doesn’t need to be registered as a sex offender.

It is silly to me that we argue here like these two ideas are opposed to each other. They are separate issues. Agreement that butt-slapping is wrong doesn’t automatically mean a harsh punishment is warranted.

Another unrelated issue is mental health. We don’t know how resilient he is— maybe the twitter activity has already taken a significant toll on him. We don’t know how resilient the reporter is. Maybe she’s a tough cookie. Maybe this public humiliation is horrible for her. We should be responsible with our internetting either way.

I’m not comfortable using names here. I think both names are available online, but naming the parties seems unnecessary. Plus, in the same way the concept of dignity inspires me to say something for the reporter, I think we need to be mindful of the butt-slapper’s dignity. (!?!) Everyone, even butt-slappers, deserve a shred of dignity. Both the reporter and the butt-slapper will need to be able to move on with their lives.

And I'll save the Dropkick Murphys Xmas song for another time, too

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

And here are her words, spoken today on CBS:

"He took my power, and I'm trying to take that back," Bozarjian said Tuesday on "CBS This Morning," adding, "I think what it really comes down to is that he helped himself to a part of my body."

https://apple.news/AjeEEjtVgTUqDMW09kEYKrw

https://www.cbsnews.com/...?ftag=CNM-00-10aac3a






"He took my power"....are you f*cking kidding?

She is doing nothing to help those who have actually gotten raped or actually gotten assaulted.
She wants attention and her 10 mins of fame.

If someone is bullied in school and takes their own life then we absolutely blame the bullying. Regardless of what insecurities or other issues the victim may have had. It does not excise the bully.

Frank's underlying issues are a nice speculation. We all have some underlying issues. That doesnt detract from the fact that he committed an infraction, not even illegal, and the internet bullies took over and caused him enough unjust anguish that he decided suicide was more tolerable than what the keyboard warriors were dishing. It flooded into his life.

A man cheated at races and the mob grabbed their torches and pitchforks aggressively enough that they went over the top.

It happens all too often now. Nip. It. In. The. Bud.

Appreciate the open mindedness to allow the debate to go on, wherever it resides.

Is a shame these discussion can sometimes deteriorate into a few egocentric opinions, or outlandish accusations. But, such is the world. And here I am still following along.

I think his actions are inexcusable, and indefensible. And as such, he should face rationale and appropriate consequences. His additional poor decision to do in this circumstance, and with such exposure is part of the reality that he will have to accept and the subsequent scrutiny that comes with it.

I would prefer not to cast any further judgement on him, or who he is. And have sadness for his family. Hope their is healthy contrition, and lessons to be learned.

He's apparently reached out to her to apologize. However, the statement released by his attorney reads in a more defiant tone than I would have taken, including "We do not expect any criminal charges to arise from this incident". I'm certainly no attorney, but I do make a lot of mistakes, and when I do, I often find that people I've offended react much more in my favor when I apologize sincerely, publically and profusely, than when I publically talk about what a good person I am and then predict that they're no longer upset with me.

---

---------------------------------------------------------------

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/profile/domingjm

He quite literally took her composure and power of speech. It is pretty clear in the video. Have you ever had that happen to you? While you’re working? And on tv?

How do you know she hasn’t helped anyone who has been assaulted? When she stands up for herself, she helps others. This I know.

This has to be my final post. Love to everyone! ❤️

How can you know what it did or didn't do to her? She's in a little better position to describe that feeling than you are, don't you think? I can't for the life of me understand your position on this, but I'm not claiming that you're faking your outrage to get responses and fill up your inbox because you have no one else to talk to.

---

---------------------------------------------------------------

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/profile/domingjm

I hear where you are coming from, but move this into a situation where you are at work. You are doing your job and then it happens. Now just for added fun, add a live camera feed on the situation.

Agree. I posted above regarding how inexcusable and indefensible this was.

I forgot to add, that I feel terrible for her. Zero tolerance for this. I can not imagine how shocked, offended, and violated she must have felt.

Nope; not kidding at all. This is what should be brought forward to the disinfectant of the sun.

The fortunes of Harvey Weinstein, Matt Lauer, and Charlie Rose after exposure didn't seem to leave an impression on this guy. Here's a report from three days ago, albeit outside of the USA, about anouther woman who wasn't so lucky about reporting her assault. She died after being burned alive.

https://abcnews.go.com/...burn-attack-67561376

Conditions for women are better in America, in part because Alex Bojarjian has the courage to say something after this offense took place at work.

And for you, Twinkie, you are only the second person on this forum to earn my personal block.

Slowman, since the Twitter feed about a run-gone-bad has hit over 11 million views, I think this thread is right where it belongs. Last time I checked, I run during almost all of my multi-sport activities ;-)

---

DFL > DNF > DNS

This guy has now been compared to Weinstein, Lauer, and Charlie Rose. And this situation has been compared to a scenario where a woman was gang-raped and burned alive in India.

Wow.

---

Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)

Which is all crazy, he has done wrong and will be dealt with by the authorities. Trial by internet and social media is a huge issue, you can't stop it.

This thread has merged into a discussion about behaviours which is good as it is behaviour and culture we want to change. The potential to be recorded and published to the world should make people think twice about their behaviour as they might find that flippant act in their mind has great consequences.

Out of the me too movement, awareness was raised of a culture of poor behaviours by generally powerful men, me too has gone some way to changing that.

Social platforms should think about what they publish as it has an impact on the legal remedy and can miss context.

I doesn't even have to be a physical difference, either

As I was nearing the end of my career in the Ad Biz, a couple different female clients put hands on me in a suggestive way, blowing it off as being flirty and a little ... "well, you know how people get when they've been working long hours together"

Yes, awkward, considering the whole team knew I was married and D'Kid was still fairly young

My boss - a woman herself - came out and said "It would be very good for the company if you followed through with whatever she asks. I'll cover for you if D'Wife asks where you are"

Then 9/11 happened, many clients stopped coming around, and I was let go because 'business wasn't there to support my position'

So yeah #metoo I guess?

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

This is a great post. Thank you for sharing.

"there are certainly lessons here. layers of lessons. the lesson i'm most interested in us all absorbing is how to talk about this - disagree about this - without eating each other."- Slowman

I find this discussion to be interesting from a rhetorical perspective, without the moral layer. The interesting thing about the internet is that it is an asynchronous platform that too many people tend to treat as if it were synchronous. Once a statement is typed and made, if that statement is not fully articulated, that statement can be parsed and debated repeatedly, and the originator of the message does not always get the chance to clarify his/her intent before the conversation moves on (I think Monty's original post here is a good example- it was obvious after the fact that his original intent was not necessarily understood).

I think as far as public-shaming is concerned, intent also plays a role. What was the butt-slappper's original intent? Should it matter? Is the "receiver" of the message the person who gets to determine the meaning (in both the case of a physical act as well as words written in a forum? )? Or is the meaning determined by the receiver? There has been much rhetorical analysis written concerning public shaming- one NY Times best seller called " So You've Been Publicly Shamed" by Jon Ronson attempts to address the subject, for instance. But what hasn't really been discussed is the fact that, once public shaming begins (or discussions about public shaming begins), the intended audience changes from addressing the perceived wrong-doer to addressing others who are piling on the wrong-doer. If the wrong doer either ignores the public shaming or attempts to explain logically the act they are being shamed for but doesn't see it through and hopes it will all go away, then the emotional response of the crowd is almost always additional piling on.


There are two reasons for this, I believe. First is the concept of Muzafer Sherif's Social Judgment Theory. It claims that if two people are arguing, and each are trying to prove themselves right and the other wrong, the people arguing become more entrenched in their original positions then when the argument first began. This is partly because we enter all conversations with lifetimes of schema that have created our worldviews, and in order to convince someone they are wrong, you actually have to convince them that all they brought to the argument that lead them to their belief(s) are also wrong. (So instead we are left with- OK Boomer memes for instance). In practice, we revert back to our emotional responses as a defense mechanism. Obviously, the medium of internet chatting and forum postings don't easily allow deeper conversations to take place. The second reason that the piling continues is that the person being "shamed" (regardless of whether society deems the shaming appropriate or not), is no longer the intended audience of the postings.


There have been a few instances where people who have been publicly shamed have come out unscathed, but these instances seem few and far between. Those that have "escaped" have done two things- kept engaging the audience and kept the focus on himself/herself while not making any more controversial statements which forces the public to continually address both the originator as well as the offense and not lose a "stasis point",, and weathering the storm so to speak until the masses have tired of their outrage ( and emotional responses-emotion, although powerful in the short term, in notoriously short-lived). The masses then move onto their next moral outrage.


In the end though, imo, the guy did wrong. And, imo, the audience determines the meaning. She was the audience to his unwanted touching. She has the right to interpret it. We here are just a secondary audience being lead by our emotional outrage(s).

---

"There are two ways to slide easily through life- to believe everything and to doubt everything- both ways save us from thinking "- Korzbyski

The use of internet to discuss and make more of it than maybe it otherwise would be is an issue

This is the best post of this entire thread.

BTW Have charges been laid and if so what are they or is this an entire slowtwitch beatup?

---

It is a flaw in the legal system. It would be better if the apology were not admissible. That would encourage full apologies and promote peaceful reconciliations.

As an imperfect analogy, in general if you fix a problem (eg, by shoveling a slippery walk) after someone has been hurt, the fix is not admissible. We want people to fix problems without fear that will be used against them.

But, while I don’t know Georgia law specifically, it is likely that his apology is admissible. So, alas, his apology will only go so far. The ass grabber still had to cover his own ass.