“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
― C. S. Lewis

---

Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)

And that statement, about you.

---

Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)

X2

The tyranny you’re referring to is the right of women to have exclusive control over their own bodies?

Is that your point?

Nice try to lighten the mood, Rich. I get way too triggered by this stuff.

You brought up a story about the rabbit hole that happened when your friend pissed behind the wrong bush. 100yd later or before and he'd have gotten a "don't do it again". With the new rules and regs that safe sport is coming up with, I think there is going to be cases just like your friend where something pretty "innocent" gets put down a rabbit hole.

And in the context I'm referring to, it's probaly in the wrong thread compared to "ass grabbing". And the end result likely may not go as far as "sexual predator" but what if an innocent touch of a person's elbow at the track with 4 friends or side hug (and it's reported not from the person getting hugged but some random bystander) results in the person being permanently banned to do a recreational sport (or worse for a "safe sport" violation- lose of job?).

I think safe sport is 100% correct in dealing with adults v minors. But the regulations they are putting on adult members of federations and what likely they are going to continue to do, I just think is too far......Again in the context of this particular "ass grabbing" I'm not talking stuff like that. I'm talking about to the point of high fiving is an issue. That's the rabbit hole we've now opened up. And they've made it such that if you don't report it and it becomes an issue, YOU are liable too now.

That's the rabbit hole I wish they didn't open up. Open up any rabbit hole when dealing with minors cus they need to be protected. And it's early on this process, but I'm waiting for the 1st story about this new regulation like your friend who got bent over the rails for something very "not serious".

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Dont even get me started on the safe sport adult on adult shit, that rabbit hole is so deep, we can't see the bottom. We of course just had an incident widely reported here with one of our friends, and he was miraculously exonerated, after about $20+k is legal fees. And you are right to bring this up in the context of the OP in general. There are things that are spinning out of control right now in sport, and most dont even know they are part of it. You sign up for a race in most arenas, and you have signed onto the safe sport guidelines. You rub someones shoulders before the event, you may be going down that rabbit hole. You're a coach and you drive just one of your female athletes to an event, watch out because anything could have happened on that drive without witnesses..

Let's catch and prosecute the criminals, but not make crimes where there were none. Now back the the regularly scheduled program here, anything going on today past what we had from yesterday?

if i might attempt to write using my *moderator* hat...

you've written the word "disturbing" once each in your last two posts, if i recall, once to describe the contents of the thread in general; and once to describe the notion that patting a woman on her backside is "no big deal."

two points i'll make. first, you're using an unfair rhetoric device. very few people here refer to this as "no big deal." you're erecting a straw man, and using it as a cudgel. what monty is saying - what a number of people are saying - is that this act, bad as it was, wrong as it was, will certainly cause this man a lot more grief than that same act would have caused him absent a TV camera capturing the moment. the act carries a consequence, and rightly so. but the consequence to this man will be greater in proportion to the act because this is what happens when the act itself is magnified by today's media (TV, social media, and the like).

second, we're not going to be "canceling" anybody here. we don't do that here. and this isn't just for you; it's for everyone in this thread. i'm done with the cancel culture. i'm done with that culture living on this forum. so if any of you want to write about another's opinion without covering that fellow user with a paint roller and a 5 gallon bucket of your righteousness, you may. this goes for everyone here, man or woman, old or young, newbie or vet.

and finally, i know monty quite well, i know his wife quite well, and i'm beyond certain than if anyone slapped his wife on the fanny during a race our 63-year-old monty would use that 32min 10k speed buried in the long-ago history of his legs, chase that MFer down, and give him a... stern lecture. nobody (or almost nobody) here thinks this is remotely okay.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

2018 I spectated Lou and Cincinnati tri club had a tent at Sligo hill and they were all in Speedos riding broomstick horses with whipped cream and entertaining the couple thousand miserable racers. Lots of ass slaps. Lots of smiles and laughs and “THANKS!”

I think this sort of outrage does a disservice to victims of actual “sexual assault”. I didn’t see any malicious intent. I didn’t see anything sexual about what he did. We’re adults who run around in spandex and 3” running shorts for the world to see. Is there outrage about the “underpants run” that happens at dozens of races? If that’s not what the reporter is used to, I can understand a bit of shock. But it’s all in good fun, whether it was a woman or man who gave/received the slap. I don’t want anyone to be assaulted, but I also don’t want everyone to think that their fellow human has the worst of intentions at all times by default.

hadukla wrote:
Twinkie wrote:
hadukla wrote:
PJC wrote:
But charging him for assault is a bot over the top.

No. It is not.

PJC wrote:
I haven't read the previous 6 pages but she wasn't doing the race and shouldnt have been on the course.

Ok, fair point. That still doesn't mean he should get off with anything less than a court visit.


It is people like you - that make this whole "sue everyone for everything" world a reality. He deserved a slap on the face - not a court visit.

This has nothing to do with a suit, nor civil litigation. This was a crime and he is facing a deserved punishment. Learn the difference.

I bet if someone steals some bread - you are the type to cut hands off.
If you have kids - and they go to college - better lawyer up. Someones kid will have a parent just like you and say "they touched the small of my back when they hugged me" and shit will hit the fan and you will be sitting there thinking, it was a wanted hug and he just put his hand on the small of her back.

but unwanted physical touch is a crime isn't it?
smh

-----

Holy cow. You drew the conclusion any of the responders would cut off hands for stealing bread off of the exchange above?

Civility people, let's please exercise some civility in our discourse.

---

To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.

I said “some of the posts”, not all. In same post I said “the majority” agrees it was inappropriate. Many of the posts in this thread have been thoughtful and respectful. Not all. I don’t know where the interpretation that I found the whole thread disturbing came from. That isn’t the case or my intention.

Someone asked me to clarify what I found disturbing. My clarifying response was “any post” that indicated it wasn’t a big deal. I agree (and said) in my original comment that the majority saw it as inappropriate action.

My point is that we can’t decide for the reporter if it was hurtful or playful. We can’t decide what her personal physical boundaries are. It was done without her consent and it is her choice to view it with whatever lens she saw it in. She has clearly reported that she felt objectified by it and called him out on it. My point is that we can’t assume a stranger will understand our intent or interpret it as innocent. The victim and the legal system should determine appropriate punishment, rather than us enacting our own punishments (for either party).

no problem with any of this. and i could have replied to a number of people (beside you) with what i wrote. (you were just the lucky one!) we're friends here. nobody in this thread is evil, or without ethics, nobody's needle is pointed in the wrong direction. the one mild objection i'd take with your view is that i don't believe the victim gets to choose the severity of the crime. what if she thought there was no crime? what if she thought it was perfectly okay to slap her ass? would you? because i wouldn't.

there are certainly lessons here. layers of lessons. the lesson i'm most interested in us all absorbing is how to talk about this - disagree about this - without eating each other.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

The tyranny of those who have decided that inappropriate should mean illegal.

If the butt-slapper was a girl and the reporter was a dude, this wouldn't even be a thing even though it is equally inappropriate.

---

Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)

I would like to agree to slowmans statement:

the act carries a consequence, and rightly so. but the consequence to this man will be greater in proportion to the act because this is what happens when the act itself is magnified by today's media (TV, social media, and the like).


I would also like to point out that this thread is way to charged for my taste. Listen, and we can all agree, this is all based off morals and who views what as what and why and my guess is this is based on past experiences, upbringings, etc. Yes there are laws to quantify sexual assault but that is also why there is a judge to deem what an act is based off circumstance. This forum is great for sooo many differing viewpoints and I love it for that fact.

That said - I will and do apologize to the ladies on this forum for being ~ possibly ~ insensitive and crass on such a subject - because put simply, I am not a lady. I am a large male who does not often feel threatened who has a ridiculous sense of humor and something like this - a slap on the butt - from a girl or a guy or a gay girl or a gay guy even - would not bother me in the slightest. I would laugh and say something like "wooo getting frisky are we!"...I don't see a need to make a mountain out of a mole hill that seemed out of jest and not malice. I like to have fun and make life fun. This is my view point and cannot put myself in the shoes of a smaller woman who may or may not have had bad past experiences. So for coming across as a grade A asshole - I do apologize for that.

I actually don’t think we disagree at all ... the victim and legal system actually work jointly on this. The legal system determines whether it was a crime and, if so, she has some choice in whether to proceed with pressing charges (hard to press charges if she chooses not to cooperate), and if not a crime, she has a choice if she wants to consider a potential civil suit or dropping it all. I dislike the cancel culture, too. It is a very dangerous place to go.

As for talking about it, I am glad this made the news to discuss. In my opinion it is a good reminder that one’s actions may be interpreted differently than one’s intentions (such as assuming it was all in good fun) and a good reminder that in most occasions (regardless of intent) we have zero right to physically touch someone without consent (some exceptions, such as self defense).

I dock you 10 internets, for correctly identifying a wayward rhetorical device and a straw man but then addressing it with a second rhetorical device and then an appeal to authority.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Did he say "good game"? If not then case closed...

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

do i get internets for identifying the rhetorical device in the first place? 10 internets - 10 internets = 0 internets? naked i came into the world, and naked i shall return. (just, not naked in public.)

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

we good.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

It’s kind of similar if a woman slaps the butt of a man, but different, too. Women are sensitive to insults these days. That’s the way it is given the vastly different historical realities for men and women. Maybe if men had to fight tooth and nail for the right to own property, vote, have equal access to education, legal protection from sexual assaults, among other things, men might be as sensitive to the implications of unwanted touching. Of these dramatic markers of the historic differences between the sexes, please keep in mind that sexual violence against women continues unabated.

You’re right that it’s inappropriate in both scenarios. Should inappropriate conduct always result in legal action? Of course not. But I hope you understand the background for women’s feelings about this.

I agee. Gender shouldn’t matter. Equally inappropriate touching and similarly serious if in reverse. I think we often unfairly ignore the reverse actions. We all need to respect each other. Hands off without permission.

Trent,

If the reporter was your wife, sister, daughter, or co-worker and she asked you how she should respond to the butt slap, what would you tell her? Please watch the video first if you haven't. The expression on the reporter's face revealed a lot to me about how she felt about the slap.

As an ex-journalist, I know how vulnerable she must have felt at that moment.

Good thing the law isn't supposed to care about relative sensitivities, then.So this guy has to be sacrificed because women didn't have a Constitutionally protected (they actually had the right to vote in many places prior to the Constitutional amendment) right to vote until a little over 100 years ago? And yes, men have fought tooth and nail for those rights - literally.This wasn't sexual violence. Such is evident to anyone watching the video from a rational perspective, much less anyone that understands the mood and environment common early in any race or fun run.

And 'continues unabated'? Nonsense.

Over the last four decades, rape has been declining. According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, the adjusted annual per-capita victimization rate of rape has declined from about 2.4 per 1000 people (age 12 and above) in 1980 (that is, 2.4 persons from each 1000 people 12 and older were raped in 1980) to about 0.4 per 1000 people in 2003, a decline of about 85%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/...in_the_United_States
On the contrary, I'm confident women don't uniformly feel the same way about this incident or even about this issue.

---

Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)

Well I don't have a sister but I do have a wife, a daughter, and a number of female co-workers. I'd tell them to slap the **** out of him and then tell them to get over it, because petty actions shouldn't result in lasting grudges. And I'd expect they'd understand that the world isn't perfect, people aren't perfect, and the best revenge on those who would objectify them is to live a kickass life.

And, last, I wouldn't suggest the butt-slapper be prosecuted or have his or her livelihood destroyed to win Internet kudos.

And someone please explain - why am I supposed to care so very much about how the reporter feels? The butt-slapper should care and hopefully feel shame and remorse. But why should I care? Why should the mob care? Why should the law care?

---

Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)

The reporter was live on air. Those saying that somehow she could have caught the guy and slapped him back is ridiculous even if the reporter believed that the solution to being slapped is to slap back.

I care because I don't think any person working should be slapped by a stranger. Am I am member of the mob simply because I agree with others who feel the same?

To those who write that it is unfortunate that this guy is going to be penalized more severely because this was captured on video, I doubt this was the first time he had seen a reporter covering a race. In fact, I'm guessing he slapped her because he knew she was a reporter who may have well been on air and wasn't paying any attention to him. I'm sorry that the guy made a poor risk calculation, but I don't feel much grief for him. All he had to do was keep his hands to himself. He could have just smiled at the camera and kept running.