Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Tubular owners, how often do you flat?
Quote | Reply
Still thinking about switching to tubular wheels.. Searching the threads, I see some people claim they flat once every 2 years... How often is it common to flat on tubulars?
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [125mph] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
125mph wrote:
..... How often is it common to flat on tubulars?
If you ride them day to day on your average roads then you'll likely flat about as often as you flat on clinchers of roughly the same quality/weight. Tubulars are less prone to pinch flats but don't have magic against punctures from glass, thorns or road debris. Some sealant inside can help, but you can do that to your inner tubes when running clinchers as well.

If you're talking race day only use, I've gotten years out of my tubulars without flats in races, sure the risk is always there with any tire but if you keep your tubies clean for race day and inspect them post race to dig out any small shards before they work through the casing you can get a lot of races out of them.

-Dave
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [Dave_Ryan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If you are going to invest in race wheels, then tubulars are still the way to go.

Endorse this comment completely. I've had better than average flat protection with Tufos (use the sealant) and average performance from others.

As a race day bonus, prestretch your tires and practice changing them and you'll be shocked how fast you can change a flat if you get one. one to two minutes is well within the realm of possibility. Conversely, if you fail to prestretch your tires and/or allow the LBS to glue your tires to the rims and you'll likely be changing your flat when you get back to the hotel or LBS.
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [125mph] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
125mph wrote:
Still thinking about switching to tubular wheels.. Searching the threads, I see some people claim they flat once every 2 years... How often is it common to flat on tubulars?

As with clinchers, you can get yourself a durable, puncture resistant tubular that will probably make it about a year without a flat at triathlete mileage.

Or you can get a fast tire that probably will not.

The primary reasons tubulars flat less are:

1. installation error cannot cause a flat as careless installation can with a clincher. (rim tape, not getting the tube under the tire)

2. when you get a flat with a tubular you either carefully repair it, or throw it away. People with clinchers use it again, and now the tire has a hole in it, and often that hole still has a piece of glass or rock in it that caused the flat, and will cause another.

3. harder, but not impossible, to pinch flat with tubulars.

1 and 2 can be eliminated by being careful, 3 can be minimized by not under inflating your tires.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [125mph] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
for the past 3 years I have used tubulars. I race a lot and I have flatted once at Ironman Canada in 2011. I changed it in about 5 minutes but lost 10+ minutes because I kept stopping. The metal lips on the fork stay was bent and it caused my front tire to rub on my fork because the wheel was not aligned. Nothing to do with the tubular that I change but I stopped 4-5 times before I had to take the wheel out and re-align.

Some pro's ride clinchers now but they do seem to get more flats like Jordan Rapp had 2.5 flatts at Leadman Tri 125 Vegas and Sebastian K had a flat at 2011 IMAZ and 2012 IM World Champs. Also Chrissie flatted at IM Worlds once. However remember what happened to Norman S. He couldn't get the tubular off the wheel because there was a lot of glue on it. He got upset, threw his bike and DNFed.

My question for Jack Mott is... I read one post that you stated that you loose about 10watts (I think you said that or was it grams of drag?) racing on tires that have 350+ miles on them vs. racing on brand new tires. If you race on tubulars, every 350 miles or so you replace them right? That gets expensive!

http://www.MattRussellTri.com -Pro Triathlete -Tri Coach

Sponsored by: Skechers | Diamondback | FitPro | Knight Wheels 20% off wheels use code: GOMATTRUSSELL!
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [125mph] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I flatted 7x on training rides last year. I figured roughly $700 in tires was enough to get clincher training wheels equipped with gatorskins. Much better...save my tubulars for race wheels only

____________________________________________________
BLOG--> http://swimbikerundrink.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [MattRussellTri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Don't think I said that. If I did I was in error!
At some point if your tire had a nice aero shape to it, like the GP4000S or Bontrager R4, that shape will wear flat, and drag goes up quite a bit. Probably not 10 watts worth though.

Anyway, if you only use tires for racing, 300 miles is 3 ironmans. That is a pretty full season!

I replace my race tires after not too much more than that just out of fear of flatting in big races, but those tires become my training tires, so not so much money wasted.

MattRussellTri wrote:
My question for Jack Mott is... I read one post that you stated that you loose about 10watts (I think you said that or was it grams of drag?) racing on tires that have 350+ miles on them vs. racing on brand new tires. If you race on tubulars, every 350 miles or so you replace them right? That gets expensive!



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [125mph] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I've been riding tubular exclusively for 3 yrs now, racing and training. I've only flatted once, and it was the time I got forced to ride through broken glass by a very large truck. Otherwise, I wear them out before I put a hole in them. Full disclosure, I use stan's sealant in all my wheels.
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [125mph] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I bought some used tubulars about 2 years ago with tires mounted. No flats yet.
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jackmott wrote:
Anyway, if you only use tires for racing, 300 miles is 3 ironmans. That is a pretty full season!

It could also be 12 Olys or 24 sprints, or some combination thereof, which is also a pretty solid season, for those of us who do short stuff.

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [125mph] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have ridden tubies almost exclusively for 20+ years. Have done a fair amount of clincher riding in there for product testing / evaluation. My N=1 experiences are that I can go years (easily 2, sometimes more) with tubulars. Even the spare amount that I used clinchers, I always would flat at least once during the season.

Hell, one of my spare tubies is 10+ years old (one of the original Michelin tubulars from late 90's). Rode the p*ss out of it and still holds air (checked regularly). I have never had to mount it as a spare.

I did flat on a tubie last year, but that was because I hit a large chunk of glass. Would have flatted any tire.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [125mph] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have never had a flat in the 2 years I have been on tubulars. Same tires for 2 years.


-Cervelo-Shimano-Asics-NormatecMVP-GU-BlueSeventy-XlabUSA-Skins-Polar-Vittoria-Trico Sports-Skins-3T-CarbonPro Sports-Pioneer PowerMeter-BodyArmor-TriTats-
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [Power13] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Power13 wrote:
I have ridden tubies almost exclusively for 20+ years. Have done a fair amount of clincher riding in there for product testing / evaluation. My N=1 experiences are that I can go years (easily 2, sometimes more) with tubulars. Even the spare amount that I used clinchers, I always would flat at least once during the season.

Hell, one of my spare tubies is 10+ years old (one of the original Michelin tubulars from late 90's). Rode the p*ss out of it and still holds air (checked regularly). I have never had to mount it as a spare.

I did flat on a tubie last year, but that was because I hit a large chunk of glass. Would have flatted any tire.

what brand tires do you use for your training tires and how often do you replace them? I get about 4500 miles out of my GP4000's, but if i can get a tubular that gives similar mileage, i might convert down the road if for nothing else but to be a tire snob ;)
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [125mph] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
While I only use tubulars for my racing, I've only flatted 1x in 24 years. That flat, was in T1, Ironman California 2001, getting knocked down by a volunteer who stepped into me unknowingly, sending me down to the ground--hand through the spokes of my Zipp 404, destroying it, flat rear tire somehow from that, crooked seat, tearing my right labrum resulting in shoulder surgery a year later & a sprained wrist. The flat had nothing to do with wearing the tire out, or running over glass. It was something else but not sure what...

Training--been using Specialized Armadillo...damn near bullet proof. 1 flat & 3000+ miles on the rear (from a wire). Heavy, but I've saved a lot of $$ in training tires with this one tire.
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [125mph] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ride tubulars in races only, since 2006, have not yet had a f**t..
originally Continental Competition or Podium, latterly Zipp and Bontrager but haven't put many miles on these, 200 or so.
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [125mph] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I tend to keep my tublars for my race wheels, but so far so good. I will train on them on some of my longer rides and probably could be better about replacing / reseating them yearly, which now that it is mentioned, I am probably due.

Biggest pain of a tubular is pre-stretching and the time it takes to get the glue layers down, but after that, only other thing I do different is also carry a razor blade for if I have trouble with the glue not coming undone, but it is like carrying that extra air or tools, so far have not needed them.

Not sure how many watts I lose, etc. but my track record on clinchers over the last 3 years is about 10 flats, and some of them like 3 on a training ride, mainly pinch flats or a bad tube.

Like anything else it is a trade off.

Surprised noone has posted the Youtube of the Tour when a guy basically crashes in a turn because his tire comes off.

Can't remember if this is the one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_8m5-sR6I4

But then that leads me to this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaQJB_bWA4c

I think with most things, there are trade offs. My perception, right or wrong, is tubulars are a little more resistant to flats because of their construction.

They can be a pain in the a$$ to change if there is too much glue or it is very hard, but at the same time too, can be some of the fastest changes around.

They are a little heavier to carry a full tire around, but at the same time, of you do go flat and you are close, you can also ride in on a flat just being a little more careful of the corners and balance, so that alone can be a time saver.

It takes me time to change either style of tire, but I have seen many who can change a tubie faster than a clincher
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
echappist wrote:
Power13 wrote:
I have ridden tubies almost exclusively for 20+ years. Have done a fair amount of clincher riding in there for product testing / evaluation. My N=1 experiences are that I can go years (easily 2, sometimes more) with tubulars. Even the spare amount that I used clinchers, I always would flat at least once during the season.

Hell, one of my spare tubies is 10+ years old (one of the original Michelin tubulars from late 90's). Rode the p*ss out of it and still holds air (checked regularly). I have never had to mount it as a spare.

I did flat on a tubie last year, but that was because I hit a large chunk of glass. Would have flatted any tire.


what brand tires do you use for your training tires and how often do you replace them? I get about 4500 miles out of my GP4000's, but if i can get a tubular that gives similar mileage, i might convert down the road if for nothing else but to be a tire snob ;)

I have ridden a variety of different brands over the years, all with pretty good luck -Michelin, Vittoria, Vredestein, Conti, TUFO and Hutchinson. Lately, I have been spending a lot of time on the Hutchinsons...Carbon Comps, I think. A little bit of sealant in them and I am good to go. Even if I flat, it is a slow leak and don't notice it until the next day. A bit more sealant, pump 'em up and I am back rolling again.

Vittorias remain my fave, with Hutch close behind. Not a fan of TUFO or COntis....too harsh a ride, IMO.

I don't have training tires, just ride what I have, whcih is usually high-quality rubber. This includes using them on rollers and my trainer (old Velodyne).

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for the responses. You guys convinced me. I just ordered some tubular wheels.. Zipp 404 and a super9.

Now, about the tires.. Is the tangente 23mm good? Is it durable?
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [125mph] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Its a good mix of both. My favorite for all around racing /riding is the bontrager thats high on AFMs list. Surprisingly durable for a pretty robust tire. Just be careful Bontragers nomemclature can be confusing lots of xxx and races vs racelites etc.

My favorite for all out race performance where your willing to risk durablity for every bit of performance is the vittoria crono II, the new one with the red valve. Its not on the AFM list yet but he tested it as lower Crr than anything but a track tire, and its a 22 mm size so narrow but reasonably narrow. I've used them for 140 miles or so of riding and racing with no issues, and they look new, but their isn't a lot too them.

Styrrell
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [125mph] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I race and train on tubulars, I use sealant right from the start with new ones. I like the sprinter 250, I am using the new 25c gatorskins, they are nice but kind of pricy for a training tubular, I really like the specialized espor for a cheaper tubular, they are vulcanized and have a nice shape to them. If I flat an expensive tubular i will send it to tirealert in FL for repair, otherwise I add more sealant and try to get it to self seal and keep riding it.

I use regular mastic glue on both surfaces and carry one or two spares with me, I use older tires with glue on them already. I only carry 2 spares on long rides, as nobody else generally has a spare tubular.
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [125mph] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tubulars since 1985...will never change...worth every penny...some last one ride...others 2 years....
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [Power13] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I agree with this post 100%
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [CoCrMo] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
CoCrMo wrote:
tubulars since 1985...will never change...worth every penny...some last one ride...others 2 years....

Ain't that the truth!
Quote Reply
Re: Tubular owners, how often do you flat? [125mph] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I raced a good portion last year, once a week, on a front tubular. I only had one flat but it was with a Vittoria EVO Corsa Crono. I hit a rock and it sounded like it exploded. I had not put sealant in the tire when installing. This is a very fragile tire and not paying a little more attention and avoiding the rocks would have avoided. Or getting out there early and sweeping the rocks off the course would have been another solution.

My personal experience is that most flats are avoidable and caused by user installation error or similar issue. I had two clincher flats, during races, last year on my rear wheel and it ultimately turned out that foolishly I used the supplied rim tape that was provided by the wheel manufacturer. I now have learned my lesson on the importance of quality rim tape.

Personally, for longer races I plan to use clinchers front and back next year. The issue, for me, is carrying a replacement tire. I finally broke down last year and purchased a front clincher that is good in the wind. With low wind my go to wheel will still be my clincher H3 and for windy conditions I will be finally be retiring my tubular HED Stinger 9.
Quote Reply