Year befor last I raced on clinchers. 3 races torpedoed by flats. Switched to Tufo tuby's last year and had no flats and no problems whatsoever. I'll stick with tubulars....no pun intended.

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I've gotten all kinds of flats on tubulars. I used CX/CG and sprinters. It even cost me a good finish in the Tour of the Gila because I got a flat on the last stage while I was in good position. I'm not saying clinchers would have performed better, but I've had many flats using tubulars in races most of them from small glass shards. It's really frustrating to get a new CX and have it flat in the very first time you use it, and it happened to me more than once.

I do like the feel of the ride, but it just is too much of a hassle and too costly.

"Every major time trial in the Tour de France has been won on tubulars."

Hmm, I suppose every major time trial has also been lost on tubulars. So what do we conclude?

Andrew

I always wonder why people are so opinionated about what kind of tires others have on their bikes. I truly appreciate the concern but don't understand the arm bending. Same with types of componentry. I kind of relate it to asking "why the hell aren't you driving a Ferrari?" Its faster. Live and let live I guess.

That in time trials, even rider sponsored by Michelin, Hutchinson and Continental ride tubulars for some reason.....

I wonder why?

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Well, its sort of the purpose of this forum: Bash something around to the point of tedium to see if any new concensus or insight comes up.

I've had my mind changed a couple times on this forum, and I'm thankful for it.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

In 19 years I have flatted either no or possibly one tubular- none in a race. I have flatted countless clinchers. And I have A LOT of miles on tubulars in racing and training.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

So if tubulars are so much better than clinchers Tom..how in all good conscience can you go about selling an inferior product to so many people. I'm not saying that they aren't better (your reference to all the Tour TTs being won on tubies was kinda weak you gotta admit..I like the Tour TTs being lost on tubies reply) but seriously..if you believe in them that much why bother to sell clinchers? The gap is rapidly closing and while they may never be truly level on the playing field more and more will start riding clinchers. You've pretty much made it clear that tubies are your choice (almost as much as you've made it clear your stance on relationships) but to cut others down (others who may be faster than you..not saying I am..and ride clinchers) is really kind of rude don't you think. Those that ride/like them will continue to do so whether they be one or the other...we don't need preaching to. Back to my comment in another thread about elitism. Do you really think slagging clincher riders is doing your business any favours? I totally repsect you for the knowledge you possess with regards to the industry but enough of the stuff-my-opinions-down-your-throat method of selling. It's not a very responsible method.

However, there was an artile (independent) in the magazine "Le Cycle" in France a couple of years ago. They did a rolling resistance test and the winner was michelin axial pro in front of everyone.

Well nearly, they were second to Dugast tubulars (some handmade tubies for track riders, super thin made with silk, and not exactly puncture proof).

And exactly how many Axial Pros could one buy for the cost of a Dugast? Even if they had some kind of magical flat formula I'd wager the number of Axials you could buy for that amount would last far longer.

(I'm acutally replying to the Tom's post...)

The tire mishap data at analyticcylcing.com doesn't seem to back up the assertion that tubulars are so vastly superior in regards to flat resistance. If clinchers were that bad, would anyone ride them? Yet, on this board you've got people who say they've had better luck with clinchers. I don't know where the reality is, but I'm not sure the case for tubulars is as compelling as you say it is.

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Well, as other people have opined in this forum, the customer IS always right. Since I own a store and not a forum, I am the "Customer is King" business. Somebody asks my opinion, I offer it. It is up to them if they feel it is valid. It is my obligation to offer them alternatives.

I sell White Lightening chain lube. I hate the stuff. Customers say they want it. They ask me, I say "I don't like it, I don't recommend it. Try Boeshield or Pro Gold or PG2000." But it is up to them to decide which one they like.

I train on clinchers. It is cheaper to put in a tube than wreck a $59 TUFO. Yes, you CAN flat tubulars, it is just more difficult. Most people train on clinchers. Most people do everything on clinchers.

But I race on tubulars.

God, with all my toy-throwing and ranting over this I hope I don't flat in NZ. Wouldn't I look like a big asshole then?

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

It's simple economics....and practicality. Fixing a flat is much easier with clinchers. Ever tried replacing a tubular during a ride or race? Even pre-glued, pre-stretched, it's not easy. Your alignment on the rim must be perfect. I had 1 flat with a tubular Conti. The first day I rode it. I've been racing Tufo S303's ever since and never had a flat.

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**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

well Tom, despite your assertion that my wheels pretty much suck because they are clinchers..I won't hold it against you. We all like/ride what works for us. Can't fault you for having your own opinion (although the belittling tone could be taken down a notch). I'll remove the pins from the Tom Demerely bike voodoo doll wheels and you should be flat free for NZ (I'd feel bad you going down there and spending all that money only to have to drop out after two tubie flats..all because I had my pride injured). Kharma has a funny way of biting you in the ass..like having to ask someone with clinchers, who hasn't flatted at the 170km mark in the bike, if you could borrow their pump or air cartridge..only to have them sneer at you and say..forgetit buddy next time get clinchers. That would hurt way worse.

Thanks dude, I appreciate it. I wondered what that shooting pain was in my back.......

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

In a more appropriate location my friend...I must have misjudged the location. You shoulda been reaching for the Greg Welch Ironman relief instead.

Ouch! Damn brotha.

I'm up out dis boy, going to Taco Bell for some dinner with my cats and to watch that documentary about the search for Bin Ladin on the Discovery Channel.

Have a good one!

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I have raced AND trained on tubulars exclusivley (with the exception of my fixed-gear bike) since 1982. Tubbies are much easier and quicker to change, and I would never, ever consider racing on clinchers for that reason alone. However, having said all that, I am planning on using clinchers on all of my long (5 - 8 hours) training rides in the future. The reason for my change of heart is "long ride insurance". I carry two spare tires on my rides. If I flat twice early in a ride (and it has happened to me), the wise move is to head back home rather than being caught out in the middle of nowhere if I flat again. It is pretty hard to bum a spare tubular off someone or find one in the local "Schwinn" shop when you are 70 miles from home. With the clinchers I can easily carry 4 or 5 spare tubes if I want, I can likely borrow a tube from another rider, I can purchase a tube in ANY bike shop, or I can (as a last resort) patch the tube. The end result is my long ride will not be cut short due to mulitple flats.

But make no mistake...tubulars DO rule!

Haim

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"Sometimes you need to think INSIDE the box!" -- ME
"Why squirrel hate me?"

haim, are you saying you would never toe the line in a tri with clinchers on your bike? They are so bad that you wouldn't even consider racing on them? Loaned my Ksyrium clinchers to a pro at a tri early last year (lucky for hom we ran the exact same gearing) who found both of his tubies had flatted since his last race (m'thinks someone messed with them 'cause even I know two flats never happens) and he rocked. Think he had the second fastest bike split and was 4th overall. More to the point he never mentioned that he noticed a difference in them being clinchers. In fact he mentioned that they cornered better than his wheels for some odd reason (might have been the fact that his tires were near bald...probably wanting to use them for all they were worth being so expensive and all). Sure tubies rule but to say a wheel is not a race wheel because it's not a tubie..c'mon the difference between the two isn't such a chasm that a statement like thais required.

dude for one dugast, you can get enough axial pro for a whole career :-)

Say what!? How much are they???

last time I saw one in a shop was in France in 98 or so. there was one for a modest 580 francs or 90euros (about $110)...which isn't that much compare to tubulars in the US...but when you know that tubulars and clinchers are wayyyyy cheaper in France (I buy my axial pro when I go back and usually pay about $25 each)...I'd say it would be a good $220 or so in the US. for one tubular

Yeah. Don't you hate that high Euro right now... Good that I have about 6 tires that I bought in France or mail ordered in Ireland. Hopefully by the time I am done with them the dollar will be stronger !

ok, I have to tell you all, I am personally responsible for lowering currencies...
we moved to Oz in 99 and the Aus$ went down big time compare to the $US...
then in 01, move to the US, went back to France for Xmas and the $US was strong, then it went down too...so I can only conclude, it's my fault...

anyone wants to go somewhere on holidays and would like me to get there first to lower exchange rate? :-)