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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [lyla] [ In reply to ]
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lyla wrote:
This super thread is too super for a neophyte. I’m converting the HED RC Pro Vanquish 6 and disc to tubeless. I have the tape, valves, and 25mm Conti TL. Should I have the 28mm? Should I anticipate any issue with the 25mm? Traveling with these wheels, any issues I should anticipate when compared to my regular tube experience? Once everything is installed, maintenance, any regular floor pump will do? Excuse the ignorance.

Good questions. I have similar questions as well. Hopefully someone will respond shortly
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [lyla] [ In reply to ]
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lyla wrote:
This super thread is too super for a neophyte. I’m converting the HED RC Pro Vanquish 6 and disc to tubeless. I have the tape, valves, and 25mm Conti TL. Should I have the 28mm? Should I anticipate any issue with the 25mm? Traveling with these wheels, any issues I should anticipate when compared to my regular tube experience? Once everything is installed, maintenance, any regular floor pump will do? Excuse the ignorance.

i don't see why you'd have any trouble with the 25mm. the only tire size restriction that i know of has to do with rims with hookless beads. generally, your stated tire size needs to be 2mm or 3mm larger than the inner bead width of the rim. or more. that said...

the more i talk with people who are seasoned bike riders, really knowledgable, students of the tech, the fewer of them want to ride a 25mm tire anymore. sure, of course there's the rule of 105 and all of that, but at a certain point that will become moot, because the rims will be so wide. i remember when HED came out with the - wait for it! - super wide road inner bead width of... 20mm. now the typical rim i ride, for road, is 22mm to 23mm, and i ride up to 25mm (zipp 353 NSW).

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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If I added sealant for the first time (new tubless setup) three months ago, do I need to remove that sealant before adding more? Or just go ahead and add more at the three month mark?
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [nagnew] [ In reply to ]
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nagnew wrote:

Any can anyone explain why Conti has dropped the 23mm tubeless from its line-up?! It seems this tire is going to be too wide on many if not most sets already in use i.e. if you're going to make a fast CRR tire also aero optimise it, please !!!

Sealant works better at lower pressures - at higher pressures, it just gets blasted out before it can coagulate.

Given the pressures typically run at each width, somewhere around 28-30 mm tires sealant will work effectively. At the pressures typically run at 25mm, sealant is less effective, although I can see a good use case if you ride in an area where there are a lot of thorns (pin-prick punctures which seal well). At the pressures required for 23mm tires, tubeless and sealant is not very effective. Go with Conti's clincher version (plus latex tubes) at this width.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I need a little help trying to figure out what tubeless Zipp and tire I can fit on my rim brake 2019 Trek Emonda SLR 6. Trek says that max 25 R3 tires.
Zipp 404 with continental 5000s tr? I think 303 are a no go with 25, right?
Thank you for the help.

Tiago
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Sponsors: : Blueseventy :
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [BrzilianTri] [ In reply to ]
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BrzilianTri wrote:
I need a little help trying to figure out what tubeless Zipp and tire I can fit on my rim brake 2019 Trek Emonda SLR 6. Trek says that max 25 R3 tires.
Zipp 404 with continental 5000s tr? I think 303 are a no go with 25, right?
Thank you for the help.

i think you're in a squeeze, if i understand it. you have a tire clearance max of 25mm in your bike frame. but you have a min 25mm on the wheel. that's your size. 25mm.

if you had a zipp 353 NSW, you'd be screwed. that wheel has an internal bead width of 25mm, and 28mm is the smallest tire you can put on it. but if you have a NEW 303, with a hookless bead, it's like this:

if your wheel is a 303 Firecrest, U B screwed. that's got the same bead geometry as the 353 NSW.
if your wheel is a 303 S, then you can ride a 25mm.

that said, i'd look and see whether the max tire width really is 25mm on that trek of yours. i find a lot of my bikes will take tire sizes 2mm to 5mm wider than what the bike maker says.

if your 303 is a previous generation wheel, with hooked beads, you have a lot more freedom to ride all kinds of tires, tho i don't know offhand what among those older wheels are tubeless ready.

only other thing: let's say you want to ride a 25mm tire on a zipp 303 S. you can't ride just any tire, nor even any tubeless tire. for example, you can ride the new conti 5000 tlr, but not the old one from, say, last year. these newer tires have stiffer beads, less stretchy, and that's what you need to ride with these new hookless beaded rims.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for the reply. I don't have the wheels yet. Currently I have some old 202 (2007) tubulars with 23s so I am looking to upgrade and want to go tubeless.
It is a little crazy with the combination of tires wheels width and all.

Tiago
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Sponsors: : Blueseventy :
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Eileen] [ In reply to ]
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I think you just add more. But I'm a total neophyte in the tubeless setup. Hoping some tubeless tire experts chime in.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [BrzilianTri] [ In reply to ]
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BrzilianTri wrote:
Thank you for the reply. I don't have the wheels yet. Currently I have some old 202 (2007) tubulars with 23s so I am looking to upgrade and want to go tubeless.
It is a little crazy with the combination of tires wheels width and all.

it's not that hard. here is the cheat sheet. more very compelling wheels and tires will be added over the spring and summer.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Eileen] [ In reply to ]
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Eileen wrote:
If I added sealant for the first time (new tubless setup) three months ago, do I need to remove that sealant before adding more? Or just go ahead and add more at the three month mark?

As Vapor Trail mentioned, you can just add more sealant as needed. I've found this requirement is variable depending on the sealant type used, typical temperatures and ride frequency. I live in a colder weather location and use Orange Seal Original. The fluids in this sealant flash off faster than other thinner sealants. I never had an issue with it in my home area. During the pandemic I had some longer stays in warmer weather and found the sealant was drying out in just 2-3 weeks. I learned this the hard way with both my wife and my bike flatting on the same ride and requiring us to swap in tubes because there was not enough sealant to keep the TL tires inflated.

You can go with sealants that last longer. I think it depends on your riding conditions. If you have a lot of debris on the roads or plants that cast off thorns, etc. then you'll want something that has more sealing capabilities. The new Silca sealant system uses a base sealant for initial installation and then a separate top-up fluid to keep the sealant liquid over time. It is too new to have lots of reviews so time will tell. The downside to this product is the base sealant has large enough particles that it doesn't allow injecting it through the valve stem and instead it has to go in the tire at installation. Easier to do this on larger volume tires, but I can see this being more challenging (messy) with road tires.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [tri3ba] [ In reply to ]
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This is a very long Thread, but I've noticed a number of "my 5000TL's" don't hold air.

I have used 5000TL's (and other tubeless tires) without issue, but some 5000TL's seep A LOT of air through the sidewalls - some so much that they are unusable (as tubeless). I have one, manufactured in 2021 code 249404 like that. After repeated attempts at installing it (using 30-40ml of well shaken'd Muc-Off, low pressure, high pressure, sitting overnight, etc.), I finally gave up, put it underwater in my pool, and was shocked how permeable the sidewalls were!
Last edited by: Hanginon: Apr 25, 22 11:38
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Hanginon] [ In reply to ]
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Hanginon wrote:
This is a very long Thread, but I've noticed a number of "my 5000TL's" don't hold air.

I have used 5000TL's (and other tubeless tires) without issue, but some 5000TL's seep A LOT of air through the sidewalls - some so much that they are unusable (as tubeless). I have one, manufactured in 2021 code 249404 like that. After repeated attempts at installing it (using 30-40ml of well shaken'd Muc-Off, low pressure, high pressure, sitting overnight, etc.), I finally gave up, put it underwater in my pool, and was shocked how permeable the sidewalls were!

those my be the older version. in october of 2021 the 5000 S TR was launched. don't know if it has the same leakdown issues. you also get that leakdown with the schwalbe pro one TT. this the skinwall or gumwall tire that's really low Crr, but you kind of have to pump it up and ride your ride in a hurry ;-)

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Hanginon] [ In reply to ]
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Hanginon wrote:
This is a very long Thread, but I've noticed a number of "my 5000TL's" don't hold air.

I have used 5000TL's (and other tubeless tires) without issue, but some 5000TL's seep A LOT of air through the sidewalls - some so much that they are unusable (as tubeless). I have one, manufactured in 2021 code 249404 like that. After repeated attempts at installing it (using 30-40ml of well shaken'd Muc-Off, low pressure, high pressure, sitting overnight, etc.), I finally gave up, put it underwater in my pool, and was shocked how permeable the sidewalls were!

I've had issues with seepage on various tires, 5000 TLs included. Simple solution: install the tires as normal, then lay the wheel on a bucket or flower pot or anything that will support the wheel by the spokes and not the hub, so that the wheel is level. After about an hour or so, the sealant will take care of the lower sidewall. Pump the tire back up, if needed, and flip it over to seal the other side. Sorted.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Mudge] [ In reply to ]
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Mudge wrote:
I've had issues with seepage on various tires, 5000 TLs included. Simple solution: install the tires as normal, then lay the wheel on a bucket or flower pot or anything that will support the wheel by the spokes and not the hub, so that the wheel is level. After about an hour or so, the sealant will take care of the lower sidewall. Pump the tire back up, if needed, and flip it over to seal the other side. Sorted.
I will try this. I'm also trying "painting" the inside of the tire with sealant the day before mounting.

I'm not giving up. About a year ago I decided to go all in on tubeless - the writing is on the wall as to what's going to happen with tire tech.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Hanginon] [ In reply to ]
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Hanginon wrote:
Mudge wrote:
I've had issues with seepage on various tires, 5000 TLs included. Simple solution: install the tires as normal, then lay the wheel on a bucket or flower pot or anything that will support the wheel by the spokes and not the hub, so that the wheel is level. After about an hour or so, the sealant will take care of the lower sidewall. Pump the tire back up, if needed, and flip it over to seal the other side. Sorted.

I will try this. I'm also trying "painting" the inside of the tire with sealant the day before mounting.

I'm not giving up. About a year ago I decided to go all in on tubeless - the writing is on the wall as to what's going to happen with tire tech.

I had thought about trying to apply sealant to the sidewalls, but never pursued it as it seemed that the pressure of the inflated tire would be helpful in getting the sealant to really adhere well.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
Hanginon wrote:
This is a very long Thread, but I've noticed a number of "my 5000TL's" don't hold air.

I have used 5000TL's (and other tubeless tires) without issue, but some 5000TL's seep A LOT of air through the sidewalls - some so much that they are unusable (as tubeless). I have one, manufactured in 2021 code 249404 like that. After repeated attempts at installing it (using 30-40ml of well shaken'd Muc-Off, low pressure, high pressure, sitting overnight, etc.), I finally gave up, put it underwater in my pool, and was shocked how permeable the sidewalls were!


those my be the older version. in october of 2021 the 5000 S TR was launched. don't know if it has the same leakdown issues. you also get that leakdown with the schwalbe pro one TT. this the skinwall or gumwall tire that's really low Crr, but you kind of have to pump it up and ride your ride in a hurry ;-)

I have the "old" 5000 TL's setup tubeless on Enve 5.6s. They do leakdown but it's pretty slow. Overnight might lose ~5 psi.

In comparison, I just got a Zipp rear disc and mounted the new 5000 S TR (still unridden though). It was FAR easier to mount, however they it took a couple of attempts to get the bead to seat. They definitely do leak down faster than the 5000 TLs and if allowed to fully deflate, the bead will even unseat.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Tortuga497] [ In reply to ]
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Tortuga497 wrote:
I have the "old" 5000 TL's setup tubeless on Enve 5.6s. They do leakdown but it's pretty slow. Overnight might lose ~5 psi.
For anyone still following this Thread, I want to thank Mudge for the suggestion of placing the wheel horizontally - at least an hour on both sides - after initial inflation with sealant. This is the answer, not spinning the wheel. This made a huge difference, and in fact IMHO should be standard procedure for mounting road tubeless tires of any brand.
Thank You!
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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gregk wrote:
cartsman wrote:
Thanks. Sounds like if I was buying new wheels anyway then no reason not to go tubeless (
still confused as to the difference between tubeless and tubeless ready...),


This is mostly just a semantic detail. Pretty much everything today is called "tubeless ready" (a.k.a. TR, TLR, etc). This just means that you can set the wheels/tires up tubeless, but you don't have to. For example, a Hed Vanquish is tubeless-ready, but you can run inner tubes and standard clincher tires.

The only exception, that I mentioned in another response, is that there are some new hookless rim beads - the ENVE SES 4.5 AR wheelset, for example. Their website says that you may ONLY use tubeless or tubeless-ready tires. So that wheel is officially ONLY a tubeless wheel (of course, you can put an inner tube inside of a tubeless-ready tire... but the point is that you need those sturdy TLR tire beads). I have to imagine that such wheels will come with clear warning labels because that's a completely new frontier.


Does anybody have a compatibility chart for tires which work with hookless rims? I found this on the zipp/sram website, and it gets pretty far down the path:
https://www.sram.com/en/zipp/campaigns/hookless-tire-compatibility


I'm specifically interested in the fastest rolling gravel tires on the bicyclerollingresistance.com site, such as Panaracer Gravel King TLC 35 & 40. They aren't listed on the SRAM / ZIPP site. The wheels I'm specifically interested in are the 303s wheelset.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Just purchased a new (to me) Cervelo S3 disc frameset from the Classifieds here and am looking to go tubeless on my new bike for the first time. Looking at 50mm deep wheels and I want the option to run them with tubes if I so choose. I'm thinking this Hunt 50 SL wheelset which is 27mm/21mm and overall solid value. Thoughts on this wheel and what tubeless 28mm tire would be best for it?

Thx.
Last edited by: sailnfast: Jun 13, 22 9:54
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [sailnfast] [ In reply to ]
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whats faster latex or tubeless?
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [blinzi] [ In reply to ]
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Depends on which tire you use.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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Gp5000 s TR 🤷‍♂️
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [mcalista] [ In reply to ]
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mcalista wrote:

Sealant works better at lower pressures - at higher pressures, it just gets blasted out before it can coagulate.
.

I suspect that's why the formulation of 'Stan's Race' seemed to change around two years ago by having bigger chunks in it. I used to be able to inject it through the valve - now it can only go in to the tyre directly. That does coagulate under pressure and I always tell people to never buy cheap or low quality sealant.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Hanginon] [ In reply to ]
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Hanginon wrote:
Tortuga497 wrote:
I have the "old" 5000 TL's setup tubeless on Enve 5.6s. They do leakdown but it's pretty slow. Overnight might lose ~5 psi.

For anyone still following this Thread, I want to thank Mudge for the suggestion of placing the wheel horizontally - at least an hour on both sides - after initial inflation with sealant. This is the answer, not spinning the wheel. This made a huge difference, and in fact IMHO should be standard procedure for mounting road tubeless tires of any brand.
Thank You!

AMEN to this! I've done this on 2 wheelsets recently and it makes a massive difference.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Tortuga497] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone wanna suggest some new tyres 30 or 32, for my Caledonia? I do a mix of 70% road, 30% gravel. Have the Zipp 303s. Currently running Pirelli Centuratos in 28. I am happy with these but always on the look out for improvements. Thnx

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast
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