I'm really surprised by how salty some of the posts are in regards to EMJ. I too was rejected from the team but it was done so graciously and with good reason. The fact is that the team is stacked and is working to broaden their member base across the US (not just SF/Bay Area).

At the end of the day athletes on the EMJ team are fantastic ambassadors for triathlon and help bring a sense of team camaraderie to the sport. And so what if they are also representing a brand ? After all -- there is no such thing as a free lunch.

I understand being frustrated about not making the team (I am in the same situation) but I think it would be good to reassess what you can bring to the team and why you wanted to join in the first place.

Oh perfect, I would apply but I don't give a shit. Wait... that didn't come out right. Shit, I'm rejected aren't I?

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

You may want to pick OP for a reply. I never applied to any team so your response to my post maybe missed by OP.
I have no horse in the race. I only joked to lighten up the atmosphere.
I could care less.

Fair enough ;) My mistake.

Recently they came up with a nice looking kit for women, but the men's (which the women used to wear) has a lot of green, but no blue or pink.

All very fair points and I agree on all of them. I have nothing against any members, any hurt I have is entirely butthurt haha. But this has actually been a good discussion and is full of well reasoned points that have helped make me more self aware of my shortcomings when it comes to the context of virtual personalities.

Thanks for the shoutout @rowtotri! By adding our Project Feisty Squad this year we have nearly doubled our numbers. In 2017 we had 10 of 16 women qualify for 70.3 worlds and took 2 to Kona. Again, This year over half of our team has qualified for 70.3 worlds or Kona at some point in their athletic career. We are happy with growing slow and steady, but think we have solidified ourselves as the women's elite team out there especially when we were created about being a team--not selling a product.

On another note-There are plenty of EMJ guys in Boulder, and they are supportive and social community-I've spotted a few rocking Vixxen Water bottles too that they Bought at our annual Soiree that they showed up to to support us as well.

Beatlejuice, Beatlejuice, Beatlejuice

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

This.

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29 years and counting

**THIS**

I know a few of the team and a good friend is joining this year - all good guys (apart from one who is all about him) , humble and of course fast . I would apply if it were not for the rather embarrassing (to me) social media requirement - example ‘ just back from a great ride wearing my x clothing and ready for a sure in my x shower gel ‘

I don’t see how that sells anything personally

Mic drops...........................

I'm just waiting till someone says they are sexist since they don't allow women on the team.

Are you talking about EMJ? All they need to do is establish the women's side of the club - Every Man Jane.

Someone will get all pushed out of shape. I think they need a Every Man tall. Or Every Man fat.
But wait, we cannot call folks men or women. So, how do we say this now to be PC?

Every generic tall or every generic fat? :)

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Hey James, I did not read this entire thread but read your post and would like to thank you for the open honest views that you posted.

When I was competing at a decently high level when I was younger (ex Armed Forces National champion etc) I grappled with this entire "TEAM" dynamic. But I would like to rewind back to high school when I played soccer, football and track. Soccer and Football, I got the "team" us vs. them thing. Those other guys were our enemies. We wanted to destroy them and take no prisoners.

But during track season, it was different. Sure we competed against the other high schools, but there was this really nice dynamic between athletes from opposing schools. It was almost like you developed a connection and respect for your peers against whom you competed in the same events.

In my adult life when I got into triathlon and XC ski racing, I kind of observed this entire 'team BS' being layered on top of an individual sport and putting up "barriers" in between athletes from socializing and mingling. There is NOTHING REALLY USEFUL ABOUT A TEAM in triathlon other than a bunch of people getting together from time to time to train. This is not pro cycling where there is a reason for teams of people wearing the same uniforms.

I never bothered applying to any "teams" through the 90's, 00's 10's because I felt that fundamentally the teams put up barriers between triathletes. If you're not wearing our uniform you're not "good enough for us"....rightly or wrongly it puts up an "us vs you" divide. I personally don't like it and honestly I would really enjoy BEATING team guys....just because (yes, there is a competitive spirit in all of us, otherwise why fight for podiums etc).

So I totally get what you are saying, but I THINK you are better off in NO team. There is some satisfaction being an unattached faceless athletes in the masses who has the added advantage of being able to connect with anyone in any venue because you're just another guy/girl racing.

So stay independent....this is an individual sport....teams, outside of some group training and joint marketing have no functional purpose in this sport. This sport can be done with no formal team....our real teams are our family, close friends and a coach or two.

The rest is high school "cool kids club crap". More fun to beat the cool kids with your legs doing the talking...that's all the validation you need anyway my friend. You are more valuable to the sport community speaking your mind and doing what you do, and adding value than turning into a marketing shill for products and stuff you don't really care about.

I would say in the long run your personal James Haycraft brand and team of 1 person is more valuable than diluting yourself in a faceless group of shaved down dudes.

Honestly I don't see the point of teams in this sport. Its an artificial marketing construct in a sport that has no functional need for the existence of teams.

I say all you guys boycott the teams and let's just all be ourselves with no artificial divide between us. Just one big happy/quarrelling/dysfunctional/hyper competitive group of like minded people regardless of where we come from and what gear we put on.

I've never seen anything but good behavior and sportsmanship from the team EMJ guys - have heard a few interviews on podcasts that also seem to reflect this.

I will admit though, that when I first encountered them about 5 years ago at the Morgan Hill triathlon ( a local tri) in Norcal, I was off-put. Not by any bad behavior, but by the fact that they brought like 15 guys between M20-40 to the race, and thus literally cleaned the clock of all of those age groups!

I didn't have any aspiration of winning the AG, and I was still new enough to tri that I honestly didn't know where I stood in the AG (I knew I was as FOP runner in triathlons, that's about it) but I seriously almost quit triathlon after that race when I finished below the 50% AG mark despite training really hard and having a good race day. I didn't know team EMJ was 'fast' back then, and when I saw like 6 guys from team EMJ throwing down sub 2:05 Oly times in this LOCAL race in my AG, I naturally thought - well, WTF I should stick to running since I can't touch those podium times!

It's taken 4 years after that for me to see that team EMJ typically consists of national-class KQ-type racers, and thus by dropping 15 guys into M20-40, they seriously screwed up the natural AG distribution in that local race. I think I was USAT 78 in that race - even in the most competitive AG, that shouldn't drop you down under the 50% mark in your AG unless you're at the worlds/nationals.

Project Feisty has a large smash contingent so I don't think it is a team affiliation. As you mentioned, Vixen might be the only team I have seen in the female only ranks that is pretty much FOP only. All of the other teams are pretty inclusive.

Yep, all the EMJ guys are super fast, and nice guys. I have to admit, when they race, my goal is to beat them on the run, which I have done a number of times. So they may be young, but, .. :)

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Too bad it's not a running race. But if it was those guys would probably still beat you.

In fairness to Dave, the guy is like 60 years old and outrunning many people 20-40 years younger. Yes, I get that he always turns things into a running race discussion, but he's a stud on the run regardless of age. No different than the swim studs talking about going out on 1:20's LCM for their 100 repeats or the FTP benchpress crew. It's all good. Just let the people who are fast enjoy their glory. It's OK if we're slower.

Piggy backing on the team discussion, I’m surprised that there hasn’t been a bigger push to do more with the team/pro athlete concept. Just about every pro triathlete has their own team, or is associated with an AG team these days, and I think they could do a better job of leveraging this. Challenge and TRS/Baucco racing kind of did this in Aruba this year, but there is still room for improvement. I think there is a real opportunity for pros to add value and numbers to races through the team concept.

Why not come up with some sort of scoring system like a pro am in golf where the pro and AGer race for their team. Races could increase participation and awareness, and teams would feel more invested in their pro and result. I’m sure if the race organizer made a little effort, they could scrounge up some free product/charitable donation/etc for the winning team.

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https://twitter.com/mungub

I know I shouldn't even respond to his posts, but sometimes you can't help it.

I'm good friends with the guy who runs the team. Send them 300 dollars and I'll promise you that you'll make the team. lol

That is a pretty cool concept. It'd be interesting if IM would get on board. Unfortunately, they swing the biggest...stick.

I thought it was already established that EMJ was triathlon's version of Cobra Kai? You don't want to be on that team. :D