Not a lawyer, but in the US both questions would be answered as to yes. Now, would that lawsuit be successful would depend on a lot of factors. That is why most clubs would have some sort of insurance and a waiver for members and riders to sign.

This is exactly why a lot of Tri-clubs shut down group rides and races here in Oz in the late 90's,early 2000's. These days a Tri Oz membership covers insurance for "training accidents" (apparently)

Some wanker of a tri-geek told the Penticton Tri Club back in the 90's that he would sue if he got hurt on their Wed evening Time Trials on Lakeside Rd/Eastside Rd because the road wasn't closed.The club stopped the Wed TT's after that.
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I dont think in our current culture there is anything you can do to be in a situation where there is 100% "nothing to worry about". Or I guess I should say, that's a degree of worry. Because you can do all the right things- waivers signed, participants acknowledge risk, and i'm pretty sure you can still be sued and/or forced to deal with the situation (even if it's not going to win). So yes you may have to not worry about actually being liable or losing a lawsuit, but you or the store or club may have to put up finances to pay for the lawyers to deal with the situation and/or the "stress" of the then bad situation.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

In the US you can be sued for pretty much anything and will be forced to go to court over it. Everything from nasty words being said on social media to completely legitimate injury claims are brought to court every day. Usually if a case has no substance it will be thrown out early on and you'll just be out a thousand or two in lawyer fees, but if the case has legs you may be in for a long day

This is coming from someone who's gone through a fully jury trial civil case within the past couple of years. Our legal system here is a joke. I now know why lawyers are so damn nervous about everything, because you can literally be sued for just about anything.

Short answer to your question, yes you can be sued for it and it may have some substance, totally depends on what the circumstance is.

   
There was a coach who went with an athlete to an race about 8 years ago. Athlete went and warmed up prior to the start of the race on the "open" roads (because the coach said he needed to warm up). Drunk driver killed the athlete. Coach was obviously devastated, did all kinds of memorials for the athlete, helped the family during grief period, eft. 6 months later got notified that he was being sued by the athlete's family, "we were told we *should* go after you too". Lawsuit never went to court but the stress and finances coach had to use to pay for the situation.....was not good.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

My goodness. That is straight awful

I think what Nick was alluding to, is cost/benefit. For many bike shops, it's likely an necessity (necessary evil I guess in todays sue happy culture) to have a group ride from your shop. Part community goodwill / part marketing, so there is likely some type of "accepted" cost/risk that they just accept it and will deal if it every comes to that (they also have likely insurance/lawyer access set aside for that rainy day type of issue). If your just some local tri club made up of hobby athletes who just want to support each other, your likely accepted risk/cost is going to be much lower and thus the example of Nick's when the club was presented with an *potential* issue, the solution was simply to pack up and go home.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

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Yep.it was the local council permits and liability requirements that small tri clubs couldn't handle so most of the local "weekend warrior" races took the hit. In Cairns,where I was based for example,we used to race around 40 weekends a year be it tri's,du's or runs with the Cairns Crocs Tri Club or the local running club. Once the town started expanding and quiet roads got busier permits became a nightmare and the $10 Tri's ended. Strangely though,the cycling community didn't seem affected and the cycling club still held events and to this day have club rides from local bike shops.

Clubs ain't what they used to be. We used to have "club" rides that took all comers, dropped your arse if you couldn't keep up, and never wondered where you were when we finished. No insurance, no nothing, no problem.

Now my local bike club has $ insurance for the club, it's officers and ride leaders, everyone signs a voucher before the ride, role is called pre and post ride, no one gets left behind, and the ride leader has to make a report post ride. I am riding less and less with the club as I like to be spontaneous about how far and how slow I go and where the ride ends up. Not racing much any more, but all the organization sort of took the fun out of group rides. Some of the other shops and clubs have more informal rides but the one with the old retired guys in charge seem to have the most rules.

I think too that we had a liability issue all along, but if you sued me you would get a ratty car worth about half a decent bike. A road bike, a track bike and a cross bike. Mtbs weren't invented back then. If you have nothing it was pretty hard to get anything. Never worried about it back then. The last couple summers I have been riding with a couple Groms that their parents wanted to have them learn to ride "old skool". I do worry about their safety with cars, but not riding tight, getting an elbow here there and bumping a bit on the bike. They both tore it up in cx last fall. Their coaches wondered where they got those skills. Clubs don't ride like that much anymore.

Clubs ain't what they used to be. We used to have "club" rides that took all comers, dropped your arse if you couldn't keep up, and never wondered where you were when we finished. No insurance, no nothing, no problem.

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It was "no problem" until a problem occurred though. That's the issue. It's all fun and games until it's not. And then you see who these people really are, etc. And so the clubs or coaches or rides or pretty much anyone has gone all CYA. You have too, so if the "fun is gone", so be it. You want a group ride,- this is what you have to do now. And again it's all because Steve from down the street sued after getting crashed out by Bob, etc, yet Steve and Bob always drank beers after the rides and were friends. Yet that friendship goes out the window when an "problem" pops up.

And the worst part is that *most* people accept the risks and consequences that happen in group ride situations (common sense). They'll shake themselves off and show up next time. But it's the super overwhelming minority that will enjoy the group ride until they get in an incident and turn around and sue you for having the group ride. That's who you now have to play too. You have to cover your ass to the worst case scenario that takes the "fun out of it".

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Yup, lawyers want to sue everyone and let the courts sort it out.

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Let food be thy medicine...

why even sign these liability waivers of "participate at your own risk"... as I was told still they are just thrown out in court

That is what I was sayin Brooks. From the 60s till about 1985 ish or so pretty much everyone knew there were risks and if you got buss up, deal with it. We had plenty of collar bones, road rash, a few thumped heads (no one wore helmets in those days, and the leather hair nets we wore racing helped you from getting scalped but head injury???) I had never heard of a club ride lawsuit before that time. Now our club rules reads like a court document, which it will be I am sure. We used to have Wednesday Worlds crits in an uncontrolled just under construction subdivision. When people moved in we just found a new construction site. Show up, run what ya brung go have a few beers after the ride and brag about that one perfect move you made and still got dusted in the sprint. If you even thought of sueing one of your buddies over a crash I am damn sure you would be riding alone forever more. Them days are long gone. Bottom line, be sure your club is insured to the max and maybe get yourself some too.

Most organizations will require you to sign them before participating in said event. And I don't think it's that they are thrown out, it's that it doesn't 100% absolve the organization of any liability. I also think that's where the "lawyers will be lawyers" can essentially knit pick every single word on a waiver for or against whichever side they are arguing.

@G-man, you "old dudes" lived in the golden era of life.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

"In the US you can be sued for pretty much anything and will be forced to go to court over it. "
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I'm sorry, but this is a (mostly) ridiculous comment. We have a "fault" based system and you need to prove fault. Now, should you have liability coverage, of course. And, that is easy and relatively inexpensive (because fault is so rare). We have local group and club rides and have had no issues. We have had fault claims against other drivers.


As a side note, and with a daughter who was very seriously injured in a group ride (cars fault), make sure you have very good un/underinsured coverage on you car because it covers you on a bike (check your state laws or PM me). This article is VERY old but the basics still apply - https://daviddaggett.wordpress.com/bicycle-insurance-coverage/

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

My old tri club had insurance for that.

If you'd like I could give your contact information for what they did.

There's a well known group ride where I live. It used to be put on by a bike shop 10+ years ago but the shop closed up shop. The ride has since lived on for better and for worse. It's your typical drop ride that is super fast without any policing. The ride can get pretty large especially during the holidays and winter months when people flock to Florida. Anyway, sometime last year, there was a wreck when someone touched wheels. One guy ended up with a broken collarbone and is now suing the family of one of the other riders that was involved.

I've always viewed riding in groups (and solo) as a ride at your own risk. It's a risk we all are taking whether you are by yourself or with others. If you can't afford a broken bone or a broken bike, then you probably shouldn't be riding outside.

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Warning - Written by a lawyer that has litigated such things. Generally, a well written waiver and assumption of risk will provide a complete defense to a claim of negligence. Whether it is well written depends on the state in which it is being used and that it complies with the law. But it also won't prevent liability where someone does something that increases the inherent risks (at least this is the law in CA), or obviously against intentional conduct.

As such, it is merely a defense however, and not immunity. It will not prevent someone with a typewriter and $500 from filing a lawsuit, and the above issues would have to be litigated, which can be expensive.

Good waivers and assumptions of the risk are upheld in courts across the country every day.

Thanks goodness we're not quite this bad in the UK, *YET*. (But some of it is coming, no doubt. And what gets my goat is that everyone refers to is as 'health and safety' whereas that's totally BS - it about financial risk and liability (not about being safe).

For waivers, they are worthless in the UK.
If the accused was negligent, a waiver can't be used as a get out of negligence. And if not negligent, then not at fault.

But having said all that, I have legal aid support via my British Tri Fed membership, and personal liability cover too. Our Tri club has cover via the club BTF affiliation too. The cover is to a fee £m, so big enough for Britian as we thankfully don't have the ludicrous payouts seen in US courts.

All good things come to an end when lawyers get involved.

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