Interesting development. I can imagine Wanda selling off non core assets to reduce debt so its a matter of price
Secondly, it will be interesting to see how the sports develop if PTU buys it. Now they have to balance the twin goals of profitability and developing sport and might realize its not that easy etc

Interesting.

I suppose PTU do not have the money, and will need bank support.
Bank support would need a realistic business case.
From WTC / Ironman current results (turnover, profitability) what could be the price PTU can pay to buy WTC (i.e. what price a bank can estimate to be sustainable).

I know there is finance experts around :-)

It says it has financial banking?
I would classify ironman as a traditional business so i doubt the asking price will be more than 1.5 times revenue or 15x earnings..Definitely not tech valuation for sure

So around 140 million$ (based on WTC 2018 revenue 91 million$) ?

https://www.triathlete.com/...ling-tells-us_378703

I think this could be a great move to ensure the professional side of the sports and see some profits flow back as prize money. The WTC staff are highly skilled and obviously would be retained and just report to a new board (PTU) and we may see some positive changes. However they might stuff it all up and thats the end of Ironman as a brand, although that might be good too as new brands and competition could emerge and independent races grown again.

If I was a shareholder I would only want the sale to go forward if they did some asset stripping first. I would be looking to sell off the physical assets such as races and race equipment but maintain control of the Ironman branding. Essentially strip the WTC of the trademark for Ironman and sell off the WTC as the business. Races could then license the name Ironman from Wanda and the PTU could run whatever events they wanted.

The asking price would represents a hell of a lot of money to buy a bunch of events which have limited room for growth just to eliminate a competitor. However it would give the PTU to make the structural changes to the sport they deem fit which they have failed to do by other means. Wanda keeps value by maintaining control of the most profitable aspect of the industry.

I'd imagine buyers are mostly interested in buying the Ironman brand.

Exactly. I think we need to look no further than Challenge and their licensing model to see it doesn’t work.

---

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

That's one way of measuring value but profitability and growth is another
If you look at those public traded companies, Lululemon is trading at 43x earnings (growth company) and more traditional companies like GM at 6x earnings (traditional) and you have the cloud companies that are trading at 100 to 200X earnings:)
So what is Ironman making? 10 million a year? You can do the multiples here i guess. Personally i would classify it more to a GM ....

Well looking at WSG stock price this morning the announcement seems to have zero impact. I’m all for Ironman ownership getting back into the hands of people who love and understand the sport, but the business model is screwed. The article mentions the debt burden, and PTU mentions future investment, which means more debt (or capital if anyone wants that risk). Triathlon participation is on a downward trend so PTU will be working against the current to try to expand and grow the sport. The initial emphasis on professional prize money and insurance is laudable but also laughable and tips their hand towards thinking that others (age groupers or sponsors) will be coming up with more money. I’d wait for the next recession when Wanda will try and dump the company for the price of debt.

I completely agree but the buyers can only buy what the seller will sell.
I don’t think Wanda will let anyone buy the brand unless they are willing to also take debit/dead weight Wanda needs to offload. Pricing is interesting because it all matters exactly what is being bought sold and I don’t see this as a straight forward transaction.

Well looking at WSG stock price this morning the announcement seems to have zero impact. //

Well not 0 impact, the stock is trending downward. I dont think this is serious at all, fist of all the company has to get split out, and they will never pay, or probably can pay what it would be sold for. That price whatever it is, will be a lot more than the company is worth, so unless they have some billionaire who doesnt care, this is not a deal getting done.


I'm watching closely as the stock is still just a steady down since it was pumped up by the banks that had egg on their faces when releasing it. Low volume every day, and a few cents down, down, down. I think I will start nibbling pretty soon, and buy all the way back to mid 3's if it gets that low again. Someday there may be a real purchaser, especially when the price gets a lot more right, just dont see it at the moment..

No. Stop using the US as a gauge for the world. Ironman and triathlon in general is growing and continues to grow globally. Just not in the US.

---

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

US is the big market, total participation is down even as some other areas are growing.

You keep saying that, but the data suggests otherwise over the last two years. <insert shruggie here>

---

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I've never heard of Professional Triathlon Organization. They're listed as a non-profit organization. I highly doubt they have the money to even purchase half the value of the company. If anything WTC could probably buy them with the flick of the wrist.

So PTU/PTO was supposed to promote the Collins cup in 2016 and 2017...didn't. And now the inaugural event is in 2020? Yeah, this company isn't real.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

You two guys are arguing in the wrong thread. The only thing that matters, is Ironman's attendance up or not? They report more races and racers, but of course they have a lot of running races now too, so it is a bit convoluted as to where the increase is coming from. No doubt that if they put on more races, there will be more participants, even if things are still in a slow down phase. they have a huge Chinese and Asian market that is untapped, so that could be a huge area of growth, or not if their economies start going south..

It is a lot easier to add a 10,000 more athletes if it is just increasing marathon and 1/2 marathon fields, adding triathletes is a lot harder, and costs a lot more per addition than running would...

I wish it wasn’t so also.
https://www.statista.com/...n-the-us-since-2006/

This is my concern. An organization who's primary goal is the financial interests of professionals wants to buy an organization that relies on age groupers to survive and profit. I am not excited at the prospect.

Wrong again. While global stats from tri unions are hard to collect, obstri.com does easily lay out the stats of all WTC races quite clearly. The numbers show two things 1) globally, triathlon is growing and continues to grow and 2) the world outside of the US is a pretty fucking big place.

---

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Its Interesting. In the linked article they talk about the sport of darts taking over its own sport and resulted in prize money increasing 4x as result.

I’m trying to figure out the idea that PTU is sitting on to make professional racing more prize money. Unless just taking more money from each AG entry?

Is it the FB live broadcast and potential advertising they can potentially do?


I love what SL is doing but it’s backed by billionaire and I think they are making good sound business decisions w it’s direction. Here in US it’s counterpart to a smaller degree, MLT I think is kinda stuck as “super small niche” FB live broadcast w probaly what less than 10k viewers? (Id have to go view the broadcast it shows # of views during the broadcast). And that’s not a knock on owners of MLT or them not working hard enough at it. This year went from 3 races to 1 race. I think it’s the reality of professional triathlon leagues.

I do think SL has the “cool factor” to get lots of AG athletes interested in racing in these exotic locations or atleast viewing it.

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I can't believe anyone thinks this is serious, this is just a press release to draw interest for their event which they have failed to get off the ground for four years.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

https://www.obstri.com/?stats=1

Overall Entries table and the table below (regional breakdown) shows the Ironman numbers on their own.

The only thing I wish we could see here is the split between North America and South America as it would show quite a bit of growth in South (and even more decline in North).

Yes, this is a played out argument but I really just hate it when some people just use the US as the gauge for the world, especially when ironman is, intelligently, focusing on developing markets and is aggressively expanding everywhere but the US.

---

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

I'm not sure you're even seeing a decline in race entries from Ironman at all. Triathlon participation may be dipping via the whole USAT membership stats. But I doubt Ironman racing is in decline. If anything it's the indies that are declining and people are taking their money to Ironman.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.