I suspect people will be lining up to correct me on this, but I think the main reason that the trainer is seen as more time-efficient is that you are pedalling 100% of the time.
No coasting. No drafting.

As you suggested, the relationship with running and treadmills works the other way, IMO. A treadmill actually assists your running, which is why an incline of at least 1% is usually recommended. I'd still rate the outdoor run over a treadmill run, even in your example. Dealing with slight variations in pavement, wind, grade (flat is never really totally flat), etc. all make the outdoor run more beneficial in my eyes.
Treadmills are good for mental fortitude, but then so is running outside, in the dark, when it's snowing.

(I hardly ever run indoors, and this winter I've ridden the trainer maybe 5 times. I like being outdoors, even if the weather sucks.)

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http://ironvision.blogspot.com ; @drSteve1663

The time is equivalent, if you run with a 1% grade. Is running outside better? Probably, but you can get in great shape running on the mill. You can do great tempo or progression runs, and the mill is usually more forgiving on the legs.

I find you can do more intensity, more often on the treadmill largely because if you do hill repeats, you're not having to run downhill....so you can do long hill intervals or continuous uphill runs too, that you generally can't do outdoors. Also the treadmill offers the opportunity to do intensity runs when outside running may not be ideal ( ice, snow, different city with bad running location etc). But other than that, you can't beat running outdoors. When running outdoors there is a lot more coordination, balance, and timing in play. It seems like that should be trivial, but having gone through a fairly bad head injury a few years ago, I have found that outdoor running takes a lot more mental effort. For "able bodied" athletes, you probably don't notice this, but it does take more background processing in a long race that you probably don't realize you are doing. On a treamilll you don't have to do that as there are no variations in terrain, footing, light, wind, sun etc. It all adds up to more than you realize.

generally, running a 7min/mi on a 'mill is easier than doing it on the road.

but a heart rate of 160bpm is the same no matter where you are.

So, you may not get quite the agility and variation of training that uneven surfaces offer, but do your heart and lungs know the difference?

+1 on HR comment

My husband and I just had this discussion, and he won with actual data (found for us by a friend who is both a very fast runner and a kinesiologist). You might need access to a library with a subscription to this journal to read it, but here's the reference: D. R. Bassett, M. D. Giese, F. J. Nagle, A. Ward, D. M. Raab and B. Balke, "Aerobic requirements of overground versus treadmill running," Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, 1985, Vol. 17, Issue 4, p. 477.

And here's the punchline: they used the gold standard, which is to measure respiration (energy use) on identical inclines on a treadmill and a road, and they're indistinguishable. Every runner I know (including myself and the friend who helped us with this question), and every popular source I've seen, believes/claims that treadmill running is "easier" even when you compare 1% incline on a treadmill to a flat road. But according to this study (by very well-known people in the field), it just isn't true. Interesting note: my husband asked the lead author about this work, and he said his advisers assumed the opposite answer was true (treadmill IS easier than road) and were surprised/disappointed when he didn't prove that.

Also, if you go to the trouble of finding the paper, there's a hilarious picture in it showing how they drove alongside the runner, with someone perched on the hood of the car, to carry the apparatus used to measure respiration.

I am not sure if I am more excited to read this article or see this picture! Thank you for sharing.

you just made my night...

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

So, it sounds like this research is saying that you don't even need to put the mill on 1% grade, that 0% grade on the mill = 0% grade outside. Am I interpreting correctly here??? Thanks for providing this very interesting info!!!

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Been relegated to the treadmill lately due to crazy snow and cold...I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading this thread...treadmill is painfull (yes on 1%)...I go slower than I do outside, it feels worse, my pace is down, it's like pulling teeth to put in any meaningful mileage but I still do it but I can't fathom the treadmill being "easier" when it's such a mental mindf*ck

I have experienced the opposite. My garage, where my treadmill is situated, is under repairs at the moment and I miss running on that machine so much. It takes so much more effort 5 am to dress up for winter conditions and go out running compared going to warm garage for a run on a treadmill. It has also been quite cold here last weeks.

Oh, my paces is 20-30 sec/km better on a treadmill.

haha, that image is great!
I need to go over that paper in the morning once the night's beers have lost their effect.

The treadmill is a great tool. Coaches such as Jack Daniels have always championed its use for sessions such as hill repeats that you just can't get done on a road.
In that respect its very like the turbo.

That being said, is it easier or harder? Its hard to say really. There is definitely an element of acclimatisation to the way a treadmill works. i.e that the belt moves underneath you, rather than you moving over it. This can encourage a 'bouncier' stride as you use vertical oscillation to increase your flight phase, thus allowing more of the treadmill to move underneath you and increased speed. This does not work on the road and the vertical force will only send you upwards!

In watching subjects who have spent a good amount of time on a treadmill they definitely display this trait, and it can often result in faster times on the treadmill than on the road. This is often the cause, coupled with a small amount of wind resistance.

But, that being said the treadmill can teach you to lift up your foot and flick up rather than push or scrape back, which is wrong. This is because of the rapidly moving belt will make this feel awkward and won't help.

So there are definitely some benefits, but I would say limit you treadmill running to 1-2 times a week, making sure you are also running outside, then you will get the benefits on the treadmill but you won't end up permanently altering your mechanics as above.

Due to my age (54), I do the majority of my runs on a TM. I find it is more forgiving on my joints. Unlike Dev, I find I have to stay more focused on a TM than outside. While running on a TM, I have to stare straight at the monitor, or I will fall off. Apparently I have poor balance and meander from left to right a bit. On the TM this is not an option. Outside I can look around and I won't go crashing to the floor if a vear left our right ten inches. Not so on the TM.

As for which is harder, heck, I find great variations amongst TMs themselves. Either way, I agree a HRM should tell you.

My experience is just the opposite, I find at a given pace my perception of effort is higher on a treadmill.

Unless air temp, humidity or airspeed across your body are different so that cooling demands are different. Then not so much.

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

Same here. I'd rather run a 6:30 mile outside than on the treadmill. Feels like less effort.

I feel like on the treadmill I lose some of the forward propulsion I get outside. Instead I feel like I'm just spinning my legs to keep up. That being said, when I do a lot of targeted treadmill training in the winter and then go outside my running feels more efficient.

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i have 143 BPM running outside at 7:35/mile, and run at 143 BPM running at 8:34/mile on treadmil.

"A treadmill actually assists your running"

No.

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Portside Athletics Blog

I can only assume it changes my biomechanics and muscle activity somehow. Whenever I do a hard run on a treadmill by the end I feel like I'm "tying up" or something and again this is at a considerably slower pace than I know I can run outdoors where this same phenomenon never happens.

Same here (except for the 6:30 bit- you're a beast). I've been trying to pay attention more to my TM running and I think that I run in a different position and have a different hip drive. Outside, I lean a bit more forward, rotating at the ankles. Inside, I'm more vertical without any forward rotation. I suspect that this is the reason for the TM feeling harder at slower paces. Like you, I am feeling faster and more efficient when I'm outside. I assume that this is a result of having more mileage and consistency than simply accolading the treadmill itself (I can't bring myself to do that).


P.S. Race you in April- Flower City Du?

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Marcel.....you described everything that happened to my running gait after I used the treadmill a lot after first recovering from a fairly bad bike crash a few years ago. Initially because my head and neck were still sensitive, the treadmill had "less jarring" but now I realize it if because the mill goes at constant velocity while running outside there is a slight deceleration and acceleration on every stride that my neck would feel. Also, I was running a lot of hill intervals, probably making my stride bouncier yet. You are correct that on the treadmill you can get away with "less hip extension" (scaping back), so I have actively been trying to do that this winter on treadmill runs.

Rest wrote:

i have 143 BPM running outside at 7:35/mile, and run at 143 BPM running at 8:34/mile on treadmil.

For me, I can cruise outdoors all day at 5 min per K/8 min per mile/7.5 mph, yet on the treadmill it feels a lot harder. There are several things that come into play (in my view):

• Cooling/airflow. Most gyms have none. I use a fan at home just like I use on my trainer (well, it is the same fan, I just move it sideways by 3 feet)
• Calibration....I swear my treadmill at home reads around 0.5 mph slower than the ones at the gym. That's fine, I don't try to equate paces
• The "spinning wheels effect". My thought is that it depends on what type of a runner you are. If you are a hip extension/push off type runner, you'll lose more at high speed on the treadmill, whereas, if you flick your foot at the ankle as soon as the ball of the foot is under you and throw your knees forward, you'll find the treadmill easier. As Marcel said, people literally change their gait with too much treadmill running to be "faster" on the treadmilll vs. but then they are slower outside.

People really need to just ignore whether TM pace feels harder or slower. It all depends what real world you're comparing to (even on a flat track, different temps, wind and surfaces will affect your pace more than you might think), and how well your TM replicates an exact displayed pace.

Goes without saying that TMs have range of accuracy, depending on maintenance, and likely even user weight in a lot of cases. So if your TM is setup such that a true 7min mile effort for you reads on the TM as 7:20, or even 7:10, it'll feel hard, even on 0%. Push it to Vo2 repeats, and it'll be impossibly hard, even if it's a mere 5sec/mile pace off compared to a track.

You can get a sense of how close the TM you use correlates with real world by just field testing in vs out, just as you would to with powertap testing indoors vs out. They will typically be close, but not dead on, and as can be seen, even a 1% variance will be very noticeable in many circumstances.