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Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018
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I found this a rather interesting read (I know about his past but that is not the point here).

I'd say a pretty obvious polarized approach.

http://www.srm.de/...season-observations/
Last edited by: cmart: Feb 14, 19 0:40
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [cmart] [ In reply to ]
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Once a doper, always a....
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [BobAjobb] [ In reply to ]
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BobAjobb wrote:
Once a doper, always a....

I agree. But like I said, not the point here.
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [BobAjobb] [ In reply to ]
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BobAjobb wrote:
Once a doper, always a....


yawn.

There's some very useful information in the linked article.
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [tuckandgo] [ In reply to ]
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tuckandgo wrote:
BobAjobb wrote:
Once a doper, always a....



yawn.

There's some very useful information in the linked article.

Exactly. Very interesting.

I wonder how he can get away with so little intensity. Maybe it's because there is not much room left for improvement for him and therefore doesn't apply to us age groupers?

What I definitely agree with though is fatigue management. 2018 I was training for my first HIM. I put in (relatively) a lot of hours but I was constantly fatigued to a level where I was pretty much lethargic. I finished the race, I had an okay time for my first one but it certainly was no good performance. Interestingly enough it was IM 70.3 St. Pölten, which Michael Weiss won.
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [cmart] [ In reply to ]
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There's some analysis out there somewhere about the Norwegian xc ski training.

Essentially the slower they do their easy training (i.e. in the middle of Z1 for 80%+ of training) the better their overall performance.
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [tuckandgo] [ In reply to ]
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tuckandgo wrote:


There's some analysis out there somewhere about the Norwegian xc ski training.

Essentially the slower they do their easy training (i.e. in the middle of Z1 for 80%+ of training) the better their overall performance.

Probably a Dr. Stephen Seiler study.
I find this polarized approach very interesting and it seems to be working for me. Currently I follow trainerroad though and they don't polarize a lot they just hammer me in the build :) Not sure if this is the best approach for me, but for now I take it.
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [tuckandgo] [ In reply to ]
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tuckandgo wrote:
Essentially the slower they do their easy training (i.e. in the middle of Z1 for 80%+ of training) the better their overall performance.
Yeah, but this is Z1 in a 3-zone system, where Z1 = below AeT. Not to be confused with Z1 in other zone distributions.
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [Rachela] [ In reply to ]
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Rachela wrote:
tuckandgo wrote:
Essentially the slower they do their easy training (i.e. in the middle of Z1 for 80%+ of training) the better their overall performance.

Yeah, but this is Z1 in a 3-zone system, where Z1 = below AeT. Not to be confused with Z1 in other zone distributions.


Yeah, this means Z1 and Z2 in a 5-zone model. With more intensity being in Z1 from what I remember.

Within the 3-Zone model I think it was even a 90-10 distribution. With 90% being in Z1 obviously
Last edited by: cmart: Feb 14, 19 2:31
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [Rachela] [ In reply to ]
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Rachela wrote:
tuckandgo wrote:
Essentially the slower they do their easy training (i.e. in the middle of Z1 for 80%+ of training) the better their overall performance.

Yeah, but this is Z1 in a 3-zone system, where Z1 = below AeT. Not to be confused with Z1 in other zone distributions.

Z1 is always below AeT whichever 'zone system' you use.
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [tuckandgo] [ In reply to ]
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tuckandgo wrote:
Rachela wrote:
tuckandgo wrote:
Essentially the slower they do their easy training (i.e. in the middle of Z1 for 80%+ of training) the better their overall performance.

Yeah, but this is Z1 in a 3-zone system, where Z1 = everything below AeT. Not to be confused with Z1 in other zone distributions.


Z1 is always below AeT whichever 'zone system' you use.
fixed it:)
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [cmart] [ In reply to ]
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I had taken the lower intensity approach with higher volume running this winter and I'm glad I did. I was running 50 mpw with my fastest intervals at Daniels M pace which is about 40 seconds per mile faster than my easy pace.

I've been doing nearly the same thing with riding. Since I started 6 weeks ago I normally keep the power down under 70% of FTP. I've got 4-5 more weeks of that then I'll test and decide if I should go to VO2 work or Threshold. When I get to that point I'm still going to hold my easy rides under 70%.
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
I had taken the lower intensity approach with higher volume running this winter and I'm glad I did. I was running 50 mpw with my fastest intervals at Daniels M pace which is about 40 seconds per mile faster than my easy pace.

I've been doing nearly the same thing with riding. Since I started 6 weeks ago I normally keep the power down under 70% of FTP. I've got 4-5 more weeks of that then I'll test and decide if I should go to VO2 work or Threshold. When I get to that point I'm still going to hold my easy rides under 70%.

Interesting. How many hours a week did you train? So basically without intensities at all? For me it seems that once a week vo2max run does plenty for my speed. But it's always hard to say what lead to improvements.
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [cmart] [ In reply to ]
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I'm at 13 to 16 hours a week right now.

I've gone the intensity route in the past and I respond well to it. I've gone 6 weeks of easy then get into doing intervals. This year I'm delaying it by 10 weeks and using all of that time for easy workouts.

I've been stuck at the same paces for the last few years by doing the same thing. I'm 51 now so I don't expect to get much (if any) better using the same protocol as in the past. This is a new direction for me and I'm carefully plotting and planning my way through it with as much volume as I can handle for this point in my training.
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [tuckandgo] [ In reply to ]
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tuckandgo wrote:
BobAjobb wrote:
Once a doper, always a....



yawn.

There's some very useful information in the linked article.

Sorry, but when the article ends "His goal is to be at the vanguard of training, racing and data transparency in the sport he loves" I can't help but think that this is a poorly veiled attempt at image rehab

Chasing PB Podcast Latest interview with Eli Hemming on Targeting a US MTR spot in Tokyo
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [ChasingPB] [ In reply to ]
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ChasingPB wrote:
tuckandgo wrote:
BobAjobb wrote:
Once a doper, always a....



yawn.

There's some very useful information in the linked article.


Sorry, but when the article ends "His goal is to be at the vanguard of training, racing and data transparency in the sport he loves" I can't help but think that this is a poorly veiled attempt at image rehab

I don't really care if it's Frodo, Sanders, Weiss or Basil Brush. The guy who wrote it has some very interesting training ideas that could be applied by age groupers.
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [Rachela] [ In reply to ]
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There have been similarly confusing reports about elite swimmers doing 80% of their training at low intensity.

John Urbancek, who largely brought zone training into swimming, would use your pace for a 30 min time trial as your zone 1 pace. For elite male swimmers this was easily under 60 seconds per 100. And even for average college swimmers like myself 1:05-1:08 per 100.

So yeah, The university of Michigan swimmers would swim huge sets of 100s on a 1:10 interval going under a minute on everyone. Not exactly what comes to mind when one hears “low intensity.”
Last edited by: ajthomas: Feb 14, 19 9:56
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [tuckandgo] [ In reply to ]
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tuckandgo wrote:
I don't really care if it's Frodo, Sanders, Weiss or Basil Brush. The guy who wrote it has some very interesting training ideas that could be applied by age groupers.

Exactly. That's why I lead with "I know about his past" because that's not what I wanted to discuss here. Please guys make another thread for it if you want to talk about that side of things.

For me it's just about training insights of a pro where we might be able to learn a few things.
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [cmart] [ In reply to ]
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Noticed a few things-

The image of his '17:10 5k' has gotta be slow if he runs 1:10 HMs routinely as stated in the article. Like sandbag slow.

"Easy training HR" for a pro like that is still a pretty stiff effort, even if it's maintainable by them. For us AGers, who do a lot less volume and have a lot less natural speed, I suspect we'd have to inch up on the HR zone efforts, although I still def agree <Z3 training should be the big bulk of it.
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [tuckandgo] [ In reply to ]
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tuckandgo wrote:

I don't really care if it's Frodo, Sanders, Weiss or Basil Brush. The guy who wrote it has some very interesting training ideas that could be applied by age groupers.

Dude you should know by now that people are hard pressed to consider the info if the source is suspect.

I read that article the week it came out. Was blown away by the amount of good info in there.

Hopefully all the people who aren't seeing the forest through the trees are in my age group.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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Well Mr. Weiss managed a very suspicious transition to become an "uber" runner this year, which makes it so hard to believe that he is racing clean now.
The last few years he rarely had a good run and now he looks incredibly lean and bangs out the 1:10s and 2:40s. All while having a doping background and still not being very open about it. I remeber the AMA here a few years ago.
So I understand why most people here do not want to read that.

The article itself is decent but I didnt get too much new information from there.
Last edited by: bentus: Feb 14, 19 9:23
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [bentus] [ In reply to ]
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I to am perplexed by how he has consistently gotten over the last 12-18mo:

1. leaner. I want to lose 4kg
2. faster on the bike then he's ever raced tri - especially since he's coming from an extremely high level cycling background
3. faster on the run by a decent margin. 1 min sure ok. 4 minutes after riding faster than ever. hmm

2 of those 3 ok, I'll give you that

I thought it was interesting when looking at the season from a 30,000ft view and how important rest was throughout the season. Probably the 1 thing most AG triathletes are afraid to do.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
I to am perplexed by how he has consistently gotten over the last 12-18mo:

1. leaner. I want to lose 4kg
2. faster on the bike then he's ever raced tri - especially since he's coming from an extremely high level cycling background
3. faster on the run by a decent margin. 1 min sure ok. 4 minutes after riding faster than ever. hmm

2 of those 3 ok, I'll give you that

I thought it was interesting when looking at the season from a 30,000ft view and how important rest was throughout the season. Probably the 1 thing most AG triathletes are afraid to do.

For me, that's the takeaway really. Do whatever feels right to you in training (a lot of low intensity, lot of high intensity and little volume,...) but don't be afraid to take rest. It's so hard though, even if I know that I need rest but the urge to tick all the boxes of a training plan is just so strong.
Thinking back to last year where I overtrained (in hindsight) and felt lethargic a lot of times and still went out to do my training for months because that's what the plan said makes me wanna vomit.
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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ajthomas wrote:
There have been similarly confusing reports about elite swimmers doing 80% of their training at low intensity.
John Urbancek, who largely brought zone training into swimming, would use your pace for a 30 min time trial as your zone 1 pace. For elite male swimmers this was easily under 60 seconds per 100. And even for average college swimmers like myself 1:05-1:08 per 100.
So yeah, The university of Michigan swimmers would swim huge sets of 100s on a 1:10 interval going under a minute on every one. Not exactly what comes to mind when one hears “low intensity.”

Would you be swimming your 1:05s on a 1:15 interval, or on 1:20??? Or something in between like on 1:18???


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Training analysis Michael Weiss - Season 2018 [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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How and why should we (age groupers) compare paces with pro swimmers? It's about your personal hr and rpe, of course their paces sound ridiculous to us.

An example though is Bluumenfelt who's on Strava. Most of his runs are about 4:45min/km or up to 5:30/km when he feels fatigued. This guy is running a 1:06 hm in 70.3! The equivalent for an age grouper is way slower obviously, whatever feels REALLY easy, no ego, no cheating like "yeah, I swear this is easy" while running with 150 hr and breathing through the mouth like a horse.
Of course he's doing massive volume though.

What's most important though is finding out works for you personally. I think that pros have this key advantage over age groupers, they have figured out what works for them. For some, like Cameron Wurf, it seems to be lot of intensity. For Bluumenfelt it's rather polarized. For Weiss as well. Probably no silver bullet to be found apart from the fact that it is individual
Last edited by: cmart: Feb 15, 19 2:08
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