Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
TrainerRoad price change for legacy members
Quote | Reply
For those of us who are locked in at legacy prices, TR is an incredible bargain. Looks like the legacy pricing is ending…or not.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/...prices-optional.html
Last edited by: Changpao: Jan 5, 23 10:25
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [Changpao] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Good on them - I'm curious though - what sort of price-increase of resources is Trainerroad incurring on their end? I admit to being pretty ignorant of these affairs - is it server prices going up? Or software-app maintenance?

It seemed to me like they had a good, stable thing going already that required very little modification once in motion, but again, I know very little about these things and am likely totally wrong about it!
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Like you, I can only guess, but personnel costs must have gone up, along with all kinds of external services (whether labor intensive or capital intensive; the cost of letting someone use your gear goes up as interest rates rise).

This would not be a problem if the user base was growing quickly. Trainerroad is scalable, being a SaaS business. If I sign up, they don’t need more software engineers.

So, if Nate is correct in saying that TR are under inflationary pressure, this means that the user count has stagnated.

Also: since they have no outside investors, they are not under pressure to “improve economics” or whatever.

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [kajet] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
kajet wrote:
Like you, I can only guess, but personnel costs must have gone up, along with all kinds of external services (whether labor intensive or capital intensive; the cost of letting someone use your gear goes up as interest rates rise).

This would not be a problem if the user base was growing quickly. Trainerroad is scalable, being a SaaS business. If I sign up, they don’t need more software engineers.

So, if Nate is correct in saying that TR are under inflationary pressure, this means that the user count has stagnated.

Also: since they have no outside investors, they are not under pressure to “improve economics” or whatever.


I'm just honestly curious as to WHAT those inflationary pressures are on a company like TR.

The software is already coded and developed for multiple platforms. You don't need a lot more resources there. They've got enough workouts and plans to not need anymore as well. And in its current incarnation, it pretty much should run itself for the users with very little input required from the company.

And even if the userbase is stagnant or not increasing, it's not like they NEED to keep growing. They have a lot of users already, and they'll make plenty good money even if it declines a little. (In contrast to something like Zwift which may be pushing out new worlds, new sponorships, new hardware, which all require more revenue coming in.) Is TR doing something new on their end for their product?

Just surprised that something even seeming as low-resource-intensive as TR is encountering such price pressures. Again, I have no idea what they or the industry is going through, so I'm likely missing something huge!
Last edited by: lightheir: Jan 5, 23 10:52
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
To me, as an outsider who just listens to too much NPR, cost isn't straight scalable to user demand and inflation for everything.

Kind of like yeah, inflation hits and your $3/gal milk goes to $3.40. But, folks making $100k/year getting the inflation adjust in their pay check aren't suddenly going to need 12 gallons a milk instead of one gallon. In on other words, costs and revenues aren't in lock step.

Same here, IMO. I think there may be some true inflationary pressures, but in general, it goes back to supply/demand/competition.

Why charge $XX minus $x for something another competitor service is successfully charging the entire $XX amount for?
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
lightheir wrote:
kajet wrote:
Like you, I can only guess, but personnel costs must have gone up, along with all kinds of external services (whether labor intensive or capital intensive; the cost of letting someone use your gear goes up as interest rates rise).

This would not be a problem if the user base was growing quickly. Trainerroad is scalable, being a SaaS business. If I sign up, they don’t need more software engineers.

So, if Nate is correct in saying that TR are under inflationary pressure, this means that the user count has stagnated.

Also: since they have no outside investors, they are not under pressure to “improve economics” or whatever.


I'm just honestly curious as to WHAT those inflationary pressures are on a company like TR.

The software is already coded and developed for multiple platforms. You don't need a lot more resources there. They've got enough workouts and plans to not need anymore as well. And in its current incarnation, it pretty much should run itself for the users with very little input required from the company.

And even if the userbase is stagnant or not increasing, it's not like they NEED to keep growing. They have a lot of users already, and they'll make plenty good money even if it declines a little. (In contrast to something like Zwift which may be pushing out new worlds, new sponorships, new hardware, which all require more revenue coming in.) Is TR doing something new on their end for their product?

Just surprised that something even seeming as low-resource-intensive as TR is encountering such price pressures. Again, I have no idea what they or the industry is going through, so I'm likely missing something huge!

Likely cost of living increases for their 92 employees (mostly software and data engineers) and server costs (there can't be a whole lot else for a SaaS company can there?). Salary costs are likely on the order of 10+ million a year alone. That's 50,000-100,000 annual users just to cover salary depending on how competitively they pay and the split of legacy vs current price subscribers.
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [mgreer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mgreer wrote:
lightheir wrote:
kajet wrote:
Like you, I can only guess, but personnel costs must have gone up, along with all kinds of external services (whether labor intensive or capital intensive; the cost of letting someone use your gear goes up as interest rates rise).

This would not be a problem if the user base was growing quickly. Trainerroad is scalable, being a SaaS business. If I sign up, they don’t need more software engineers.

So, if Nate is correct in saying that TR are under inflationary pressure, this means that the user count has stagnated.

Also: since they have no outside investors, they are not under pressure to “improve economics” or whatever.


I'm just honestly curious as to WHAT those inflationary pressures are on a company like TR.

The software is already coded and developed for multiple platforms. You don't need a lot more resources there. They've got enough workouts and plans to not need anymore as well. And in its current incarnation, it pretty much should run itself for the users with very little input required from the company.

And even if the userbase is stagnant or not increasing, it's not like they NEED to keep growing. They have a lot of users already, and they'll make plenty good money even if it declines a little. (In contrast to something like Zwift which may be pushing out new worlds, new sponorships, new hardware, which all require more revenue coming in.) Is TR doing something new on their end for their product?

Just surprised that something even seeming as low-resource-intensive as TR is encountering such price pressures. Again, I have no idea what they or the industry is going through, so I'm likely missing something huge!


Likely cost of living increases for their 92 employees (mostly software and data engineers) and server costs (there can't be a whole lot else for a SaaS company can there?). Salary costs are likely on the order of 10+ million a year alone. That's 50,000-100,000 annual users just to cover salary depending on how competitively they pay and the split of legacy vs current price subscribers.


Wow I didn't know they had 92 employees!

I honestly thought they were like a group of <15 people with stuff like billing etc contracted out to 3rd parties.

What are all those software engineers doing? I thought the platform was already set up and basically good to run mostly 'on its own.' Or am I missing a continuous stream of new features that are being implemented?
Last edited by: lightheir: Jan 5, 23 11:20
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I've been a subscriber since 2018. In that time they've released:
  • Calendar
  • Outside workouts
  • Ramp test
  • Group workouts
  • Plan builder
  • Improved powermatch
  • Adaptive training
  • AI FTP
  • Run imports

Some of those big, some small and some I'm probably missing. It also seems like once every 2-3 weeks there's an app update with bug fixes. They support windows, android, iOS and MacOS versions and a browser based front end that all work pretty seamlessly. It's an ecosystem that just works too (unlike some other's I've tried using). It's an entirely different app from when I started using it 5 years ago. Back then it was workout library and player with 15-20 pre-made plans that you had to keep track of which workout you just did and which workout comes next.

Listening to the podcast and reading stuff on the forums, they've got several features in the works such as improved run integration and unstructured ride inputs into AT (workout levels 2?).
Last edited by: mgreer: Jan 5, 23 11:50
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [mgreer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mgreer wrote:
I've been a subscriber since 2018. In that time they've released:
  • Calendar
  • Outside workouts
  • Ramp test
  • Group workouts
  • Plan builder
  • Improved powermatch
  • Adaptive training
  • AI FTP
  • Run imports

Some of those big, some small and some I'm probably missing. It also seems like once every 2-3 weeks there's an app update with bug fixes. They support windows, android, iOS and MacOS versions and a browser based front end that all work pretty seamlessly. It's an ecosystem that just works too (unlike some other's I've tried using). It's an entirely different app from when I started using it 5 years ago. Back then it was workout library and player with 15-20 pre-made plans that you had to keep track of which workout you just did and which workout comes next.

Listening to the podcast and reading stuff on the forums, they've got several features in the works such as improved run integration and unstructured ride inputs into AT (workout levels 2?).

^this

I’ve been using trainerroad since 2014 and can confidently say that their product is much different and expansive today than it was when I started. Frankly, I’m surprised i got legacy pricing for this long. Good for them!

Not everything is as it seems -Mr. Miyagi
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [chxddstri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I've used TR since 2019 on some discount deal and it has significantly more functionality than when I started and is constantly improving. The software is not static and they have a ton of free education content. Huge fan can't imagine switching for what u get it's a bargain. nate Jonathan Amber and Chad seem like my best cyclist friends even I never met any of them just from the podcast the odd forum interaction and comment reply. Well them and backwards hat Dylan.
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [Changpao] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I am a long time trainer road subscriber and really like the platform compared to the other platforms currently offered in the market. The train now feature is outstanding. I am more than happy to increase my subscription rate so that they do not have to either look to outside investment or sell/merge with other companies and all the negative impacts associated with that move. Keep up the great work TR!
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think labour costs are rising everywhere including for TR. Even if they weren't growing, they would still need a lot of customer support and back end people to keep the bugs at bay.

Additionally, I think many businesses like TR are in the grow or die model. If they don't keep trying to improve/change their product, eventually their competitors will outpace them with a lot of shiny new features. So TR has to keep hiring so as to keep innovating - which means more cost.

As others have noted, the software does a lot more than it used to.

It is also possible that like many tech "startups" TR isn't very profitable yet - and the founders are trying to keep the balls in the air until a competitor buys them. This may be an attempt to inject more funds into the business to keep it going for a few more years while they wait for a suitor.

I'm not sure if they are against VC funding, or if they just can't get it - but either way, it's impressive to build a business with this many users without any outside capital.
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [The Guardian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Wondering if it's as much a sign of the bike industry bubble about to go pop? Anticipation of declining subscribers so increase the prices to keep revenue up? Strava have just announced a nearly 30% fee increase for UK users.
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [mgreer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mgreer wrote:
Likely cost of living increases for their 92 employees (mostly software and data engineers) and server costs (there can't be a whole lot else for a SaaS company can there?). Salary costs are likely on the order of 10+ million a year alone. That's 50,000-100,000 annual users just to cover salary depending on how competitively they pay and the split of legacy vs current price subscribers.

Salary is probably the largest swing and there's also all the other SaaS that most companies use that's gone up in price as well. There's probably a good amount of per employee and variable cost SaaS products that they're using that have also been bringing their rates up this year. You can do some trimming when things have overlapping feature sets or try to reduce utilization, but a lot of those products are pretty sticky once you've built processes around having them.
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [andrewjshults] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This reminds me of buying socks with "lifetime" warranty. It's always too good to be true.
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [Adub] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Or Flo wheels. As a startup, they were pretty unique. Now they're in a sea of carbon wheel manufacturers at the mid-price level.

I still think Flo is great still. Just as a mature company they couldn't maintain the killer price differential they once had.
Last edited by: trail: Jan 7, 23 15:49
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [The Guardian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The Guardian wrote:
I'm not sure if they are against VC funding, or if they just can't get it - but either way, it's impressive to build a business with this many users without any outside capital.
I can't be certain, but I'd bet a lot of money that there have been a handful of folks (and I'd guess a whole lot more than that) wanting to fund TR in some capacity. My startup in the same space has had serious investor interest and we haven't even launched and most folks haven't even heard about it. Given my experience, it seems to me like there's next-to-no chance that Nate doesn't field some investor interest. He's probably got a canned response at this point. :)

Their loyal user base is impressive indeed and they've done a lot of things really well to build it. Well earned.

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'll bet you're absolutely right. I think they are in principle against VC investment for their own company due to potential loss of control. Nate has talked about it on the podcast in the past. They don't judge it for others, it's just not for them.
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [Adub] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Adub wrote:
This reminds me of buying socks with "lifetime" warranty. It's always too good to be true.

In case you haven't followed along, the price increase for legacy members is entirely optional. You can stay at your current old pricing w/ no loss of features.

They're basically just asking for volunteers to pay more. By reading the thread at the TR forum, quite a few people are doing it.
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [mgreer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I stuck with my legacy pricing, I went for several years without even using TR but never bothered to cancel because I didn't want to lose that pricing knowing that some day I would return. I figure I'll give it another go now and if I stick with it I'll change my pricing choice... I'm at a crossroads though as I'm really struggling to find something I like between Fulgaz, Rouvy, Zwift, and then plans in TrainerRoad, Tridot, MyProCoach and of course TrainingPeaks. I realize I am wasting a load of money and should just get a coach!

They have made a lot of changes and improvements in TrainerRoad though but it looks like their triathlon plans are the same as they always were, other than the bike workouts adapting. I could be wrong on that. I assume the swims and runs don't adapt?
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [sorelegs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sorelegs wrote:
They have made a lot of changes and improvements in TrainerRoad though but it looks like their triathlon plans are the same as they always were, other than the bike workouts adapting. I could be wrong on that. I assume the swims and runs don't adapt?

The swim workouts adapt at least insofar as it notices if you don't mark them as done. It looks like they update by making sure you stay somewhat in sequence (so if you skip a month of swim workouts, the next workout is close to one you skipped at the start, instead of expecting you to do a more advanced / challenging workout without building up to it). They don't automatically import swim workouts and as far as I can tell don't compare what you should have done with what you did.

Run workouts are automatically imported and matched against the schedule, but it doesn't look like the content of the run is matched against the plan. Again, if you skip runs then it does adapt to try to keep your next workout achievable.
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [bsdcat] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for that. I had no idea. That’s good to know!
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [jn46] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jn46 wrote:
Strava have just announced a nearly 30% fee increase for UK users.


DCR just savaged Strava over their confusing price increases. I mean climbed up onto the ropes and did a diving 450 elbow drop.

I'm still confused that though the famous "Tylenol" honesty and transparency is univerally lauded in business schools, etc, companies still try to obfuscate and send out press releases using bizarre corporate-speak.

"...we are consistently investing in the value of our subscription experience to deliver a best-in-class digital experience"


Save that crap for impressing people in the C-suite. Speak English to us customers.




Last edited by: trail: Jan 13, 23 8:35
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [Changpao] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So my big question that just popped to mind... These are the legacy athletes, TR's oldest customers. If the platform has been around for over a decade, then it seems like there cannot be many of them in proportion to everyone who has joined since. So, if that is a small proportion of its customers, then it does not seem like ditching the legacy pricing would move the needle that much. In my experience, I would guess that the oldest subscribers would be well under 20% of all subscribers (and shrinking every year).

Does that mean a large proportion of TR's subscribers are legacy and they are churning newer customers?
Quote Reply
Re: TrainerRoad price change for legacy members [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
exxxviii wrote:
So my big question that just popped to mind... These are the legacy athletes, TR's oldest customers. If the platform has been around for over a decade, then it seems like there cannot be many of them in proportion to everyone who has joined since. So, if that is a small proportion of its customers, then it does not seem like ditching the legacy pricing would move the needle that much. In my experience, I would guess that the oldest subscribers would be well under 20% of all subscribers (and shrinking every year).

Does that mean a large proportion of TR's subscribers are legacy and they are churning newer customers?

I would wager that the vast majority of customers are legacy, but not all legacies are created equal. They only in the last year or two changed the price from $15 a month to $20 a month (and $149 a year to 189 a year). On the TR forum, Nate said there are 70 people paying the lowest rate of $7/month ($84/year) and tens of thousands at $15/month and $189/year. No details on the people paying at the other intermediate levels of $89/$99/$129 a year.
Quote Reply

Prev Next