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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [Troy B] [ In reply to ]
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Troy B wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:
Troy B wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:
Troy B wrote:
With all of the real world problems we have it's crazy how much time is spent protecting those who may or may not be offended from something that's harmless. Podium girls are one of many of these topics.

It's not about being offended. It's about how women are perceived and treated in society. If you can't see the connection between women being accepted as nothing more than cosmetic adornments in public arenas such as major sporting events, and social discrimination, that's stunning!


You find anyone that doesn't fall in line with your opinions as stunning.

Nope. I'm quite used to that.

Want to address my actual point now? Or were you just planning to obfuscate?


It's been addressed in previous threads, no need to rehash it. You can look back if you care to.
What?
You're the one who responded to my post, with a position that doesn't obviously deal with anything I had said or asked in the thread. After I tell you why I disagree with what YOU said, rather than provide anything whatsoever to substantiate your initial claim or put it in context, the best you can do is tell me there's something, somewhere that addresses what I say if I want to go look?
I don't even know what you think I should look for since you don't seem to understand what I'm saying.

Are you by any chance joking?....because I'm laughing!
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Ai_1 wrote:
Shambolic wrote:
It's funny all the people objecting don't listen to all the podium girls who have a great life experience and get to meet a lot of people they may never have. Society too PC in my opinion but that's just me.

Clearly you're view is that it's about the podium girls themselves being exploited. I really don't think that's what concerns most people. Certainly not me. The job is there, some will take it. It may be enjoyable, lucrative, provide opportunities, whatever..... that's not the point.
The point is the reason for the job to exist and how it reflects on, and influences society.
Pose women in roles where they are there as nothing but "eye candy" and you're reinforcing the idea that this is what women are good for and that it's legitimate to expect women to make themselves attractive and subservient. From that perspective it doesn't matter whether the women concerned are exploited, well paid, love the job, or otherwise..... it matters what role they play and how it's perceived. Their well-being is important. Healthy society is more important.

While I mostly post this as a joke:

"Societies needs come before the individual's needs." -Adolf Hitler

It can be argued that we run into a little trouble when we let a loud minority dictate what is best for everyone else. That is my main issue with Pc culture.
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [Hammer Down] [ In reply to ]
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Bit of a pause in the conversation while we all reflect as Godwin would want is to.
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [Hammer Down] [ In reply to ]
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Hammer Down wrote:
You exemplify one issue many have with the PC crowd. You automatically assume that what you're doing is the right thing and the other side is the wrong thing.

This thread proves that argument.

Part of the problem here is that, for many people, something like an online triathlon forum is the only place they engage in an "intellectual" discussion on a variety of issues.
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [dhr] [ In reply to ]
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dhr wrote:
Hammer Down wrote:

You exemplify one issue many have with the PC crowd. You automatically assume that what you're doing is the right thing and the other side is the wrong thing.


This thread proves that argument.

Part of the problem here is that, for many people, something like an online triathlon forum is the only place they engage in an "intellectual" discussion on a variety of issues.

The bit you quoted was in response to me. I asked the person who wrote it but they didn't respond. If you are supporting their statement then maybe you can tell me what I am 'doing' that I am deluded about being the right thing?

I started writing something supporting the need for someone to manage a podium ceremony just because I was surprised no-one had actually made that case. But it got far too long. I can see both sides of the discussion. I am not calling for it to be banned but I won't miss it if it's gone. I am interested in how a ceremony will run smoothly without someone helping the winner on with a jersey. I guess we will find out at the Paris-Roubaix if that is their next race.

But you are absolutely right. I am stuck at home atm and I find the whole issue interesting. So I this is the alternative to discussing it with someone in person.
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Ai_1 wrote:
Troy B wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:
Troy B wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:
Troy B wrote:
With all of the real world problems we have it's crazy how much time is spent protecting those who may or may not be offended from something that's harmless. Podium girls are one of many of these topics.

It's not about being offended. It's about how women are perceived and treated in society. If you can't see the connection between women being accepted as nothing more than cosmetic adornments in public arenas such as major sporting events, and social discrimination, that's stunning!


You find anyone that doesn't fall in line with your opinions as stunning.

Nope. I'm quite used to that.

Want to address my actual point now? Or were you just planning to obfuscate?


It's been addressed in previous threads, no need to rehash it. You can look back if you care to.

What?
You're the one who responded to my post, with a position that doesn't obviously deal with anything I had said or asked in the thread. After I tell you why I disagree with what YOU said, rather than provide anything whatsoever to substantiate your initial claim or put it in context, the best you can do is tell me there's something, somewhere that addresses what I say if I want to go look?
I don't even know what you think I should look for since you don't seem to understand what I'm saying.

Are you by any chance joking?....because I'm laughing!

You are quite the piece of work. I didn't reply to your post exclusively, I replied to the thread as a whole. Get over yourself, I owe you nothing. If you want a joke, take a look in the mirror.
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [Hammer Down] [ In reply to ]
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Hammer Down wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:
Shambolic wrote:
It's funny all the people objecting don't listen to all the podium girls who have a great life experience and get to meet a lot of people they may never have. Society too PC in my opinion but that's just me.

Clearly you're view is that it's about the podium girls themselves being exploited. I really don't think that's what concerns most people. Certainly not me. The job is there, some will take it. It may be enjoyable, lucrative, provide opportunities, whatever..... that's not the point.
The point is the reason for the job to exist and how it reflects on, and influences society.
Pose women in roles where they are there as nothing but "eye candy" and you're reinforcing the idea that this is what women are good for and that it's legitimate to expect women to make themselves attractive and subservient. From that perspective it doesn't matter whether the women concerned are exploited, well paid, love the job, or otherwise..... it matters what role they play and how it's perceived. Their well-being is important. Healthy society is more important.


While I mostly post this as a joke:

"Societies needs come before the individual's needs." -Adolf Hitler

It can be argued that we run into a little trouble when we let a loud minority dictate what is best for everyone else. That is my main issue with Pc culture.
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" -Spock

Both quotes are no more than a distraction. Both are simple assertions without rationale. And whether they were said by Hitler, Spock or me is irrelevant to their legitimacy. So I'm going to ignore quotes if that's okay.

However, I do agree that a loud minority shouldn't hold sway. I also firmly believe that "PC" orthodoxy is as much a hazard as a solution to societal problems. I believe compassion, integrity and open argument are the route to fairness and avoidance of the pitfalls you mention. That's why I am so frustrated when people intentionally misconstrue another's position or fail to provide rationale for their own, as may be obvious ;).
I have no interest in correctness for show. I want fairness as far as it's possible to provide it, and transparency of motive from those thwarting it. This is of course at odds with commercial priorities.

In this particular case, I am far from convinced that there is a loud minority arguing over something silly, as many seem to suggest. I think those who pose this as an issue about the well being of the women employed as podium girls are utterly misconstruing the argument. I don't have any major concerns about those individuals, nor is my argument in any way undermined by them liking the job they're doing. Why would it be?

I see a conflict between the supposed aspiration to equality and respect, the outrage against those who disrespect or abuse women in various ways every day, and the reality of putting women on display purely as sexual objects. These are not compatible without some real mental gymnastics. Of course human beings are great at those, but they have nasty consequences.
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [Troy B] [ In reply to ]
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Troy B wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:
Troy B wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:
Troy B wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:
Troy B wrote:
With all of the real world problems we have it's crazy how much time is spent protecting those who may or may not be offended from something that's harmless. Podium girls are one of many of these topics.

It's not about being offended. It's about how women are perceived and treated in society. If you can't see the connection between women being accepted as nothing more than cosmetic adornments in public arenas such as major sporting events, and social discrimination, that's stunning!


You find anyone that doesn't fall in line with your opinions as stunning.

Nope. I'm quite used to that.

Want to address my actual point now? Or were you just planning to obfuscate?


It's been addressed in previous threads, no need to rehash it. You can look back if you care to.

What?
You're the one who responded to my post, with a position that doesn't obviously deal with anything I had said or asked in the thread. After I tell you why I disagree with what YOU said, rather than provide anything whatsoever to substantiate your initial claim or put it in context, the best you can do is tell me there's something, somewhere that addresses what I say if I want to go look?
I don't even know what you think I should look for since you don't seem to understand what I'm saying.

Are you by any chance joking?....because I'm laughing!


You are quite the piece of work. I didn't reply to your post exclusively, I replied to the thread as a whole. Get over yourself, I owe you nothing. If you want a joke, take a look in the mirror.


Just curious if someone is going to tell the organizers at the upcoming South Beach event that they need to fire the cute models that hand out the finisher medals? Or is this just a France PC thing we are talking about. Come to think about it, I guess all the women who are employed by car shows, boat shows, NASCAR, NFL cheerleaders, PGA, LPGA, European tour golf tournaments, etc, etc, etc need to be notified as well. Any volunteers?
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not convinced that podium girls have a bad effect on society. I haven't heard any compelling argument or analysis about it-- I only hear that the podium girls make some people feel uncomfortable or feel like women are objectified.

Do sexy women make you feel uncomfortable? That's your problem, in my opinion. Why is it the problem of the sexy woman? Look someplace else if you don't like it.

If sexy women are objectified, why is it their problem? Shouldn't we blame it on the person who objectifies, rather than the sexy woman? I predict that high heels, miniskirts and push up bras will be blamed next. We'll need to get rid of those so women won't be objectified.

Please discuss a general principle that can guide our thinking on this debate, such as personal autonomy, freedom to live and work without harassment, personal responsibility, freedom of expression, etc.
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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gphin305 wrote:
Troy B wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:
Troy B wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:
Troy B wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:
Troy B wrote:
With all of the real world problems we have it's crazy how much time is spent protecting those who may or may not be offended from something that's harmless. Podium girls are one of many of these topics.

It's not about being offended. It's about how women are perceived and treated in society. If you can't see the connection between women being accepted as nothing more than cosmetic adornments in public arenas such as major sporting events, and social discrimination, that's stunning!


You find anyone that doesn't fall in line with your opinions as stunning.

Nope. I'm quite used to that.

Want to address my actual point now? Or were you just planning to obfuscate?


It's been addressed in previous threads, no need to rehash it. You can look back if you care to.

What?
You're the one who responded to my post, with a position that doesn't obviously deal with anything I had said or asked in the thread. After I tell you why I disagree with what YOU said, rather than provide anything whatsoever to substantiate your initial claim or put it in context, the best you can do is tell me there's something, somewhere that addresses what I say if I want to go look?
I don't even know what you think I should look for since you don't seem to understand what I'm saying.

Are you by any chance joking?....because I'm laughing!


You are quite the piece of work. I didn't reply to your post exclusively, I replied to the thread as a whole. Get over yourself, I owe you nothing. If you want a joke, take a look in the mirror.


Just curious if someone is going to tell the organizers at the upcoming South Beach event that they need to fire the cute models that hand out the finisher medals? Or is this just a France PC thing we are talking about. Come to think about it, I guess all the women who are employed by car shows, boat shows, NASCAR, NFL cheerleaders, PGA, LPGA, European tour golf tournaments, etc, etc, etc need to be notified as well. Any volunteers?
You're saying this like this might be something new to the conversation. There's no difference at all.
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [CalamityJane88] [ In reply to ]
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CalamityJane88 wrote:
I'm not convinced that podium girls have a bad effect on society. I haven't heard any compelling argument or analysis about it-- I only hear that the podium girls make some people feel uncomfortable or feel like women are objectified.

Do sexy women make you feel uncomfortable? That's your problem, in my opinion. Why is it the problem of the sexy woman? Look someplace else if you don't like it.

If sexy women are objectified, why is it their problem? Shouldn't we blame it on the person who objectifies, rather than the sexy woman? I predict that high heels, miniskirts and push up bras will be blamed next. We'll need to get rid of those so women won't be objectified.

Please discuss a general principle that can guide our thinking on this debate, such as personal autonomy, freedom to live and work without harassment, personal responsibility, freedom of expression, etc.

Good points. And if you really dig into things, you'll find that the "huge" number of people who object to stuff like this are actually in a very small minority....but thanks to social media can be made to appear like a much bigger following. Not saying the case with the TDF but in many other cases.
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [CalamityJane88] [ In reply to ]
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CalamityJane88 wrote:
I'm not convinced that podium girls have a bad effect on society. I haven't heard any compelling argument or analysis about it-- I only hear that the podium girls make some people feel uncomfortable or feel like women are objectified.

Do sexy women make you feel uncomfortable? That's your problem, in my opinion. Why is it the problem of the sexy woman? Look someplace else if you don't like it.

If sexy women are objectified, why is it their problem? Shouldn't we blame it on the person who objectifies, rather than the sexy woman? I predict that high heels, miniskirts and push up bras will be blamed next. We'll need to get rid of those so women won't be objectified.

Please discuss a general principle that can guide our thinking on this debate, such as personal autonomy, freedom to live and work without harassment, personal responsibility, freedom of expression, etc.
Aimed at me?
I haven't blamed anyone but societal acceptance of objectification as a normal practice. I've certainly not blamed any women or their clothes. If you disagree, please be so good as to provide a quote.
This obsession with finding an individual to blame for everything is going nowhere. It's neither the girls fault or the viewers fault. I have no problems with people being attracted to each other. That would be absurd.
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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I thought you said something to the effect that podium girls create an unhealthy society. I'm sorry if I responded to the wrong person.

Instead, I understand that you blame society as a whole for the objectification of women. And the objectification of women is related to podium girls.

Society is really just a bunch of people organized by a set of rules that they agree on. Typically, the rules are the least restrictive possible, so that the people feel free to live according to their own personal ethics, values, religion, etc.

Society generally accepts infringement of personal freedom (in the form of a law or social rule) when it prevents a harm. So, it's important to carefully identify the harm and what causes it because there is a loss of freedom. People resent losing freedom. I don't know that anyone has shown that the objectification is actually tied to, say, podium girls.

I feel like we should probably define objectification. Maybe it's viewing someone as an object or something that does not have the full spectrum of abilities, rights, responsibilities as other people. (Let's call those human rights.) I agree-- objectifying a person is bad.

How do you not objectify someone? I suppose you let that person be the master of her own destiny. You would give her all the information and opportunities and the confidence and ability to choose her own path.

Back to podium girls. Podium girls have chosen a path that one assumes is right for them. Their human rights are still intact. When they perform their work, do they cause someone to objectify?

You want to blame podium girls for creating or perpetuating a societal norm of objectifing? I don't buy it. The cause-in-fact is any man who objectifies any woman. Fix the man. Let the women follow their own path.

Boom!
Last edited by: CalamityJane88: Mar 5, 18 10:30
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Ai_1 wrote:
Hammer Down wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:
Shambolic wrote:
It's funny all the people objecting don't listen to all the podium girls who have a great life experience and get to meet a lot of people they may never have. Society too PC in my opinion but that's just me.

Clearly you're view is that it's about the podium girls themselves being exploited. I really don't think that's what concerns most people. Certainly not me. The job is there, some will take it. It may be enjoyable, lucrative, provide opportunities, whatever..... that's not the point.
The point is the reason for the job to exist and how it reflects on, and influences society.
Pose women in roles where they are there as nothing but "eye candy" and you're reinforcing the idea that this is what women are good for and that it's legitimate to expect women to make themselves attractive and subservient. From that perspective it doesn't matter whether the women concerned are exploited, well paid, love the job, or otherwise..... it matters what role they play and how it's perceived. Their well-being is important. Healthy society is more important.


While I mostly post this as a joke:

"Societies needs come before the individual's needs." -Adolf Hitler

It can be argued that we run into a little trouble when we let a loud minority dictate what is best for everyone else. That is my main issue with Pc culture.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" -Spock

Both quotes are no more than a distraction. Both are simple assertions without rationale. And whether they were said by Hitler, Spock or me is irrelevant to their legitimacy. So I'm going to ignore quotes if that's okay.

However, I do agree that a loud minority shouldn't hold sway. I also firmly believe that "PC" orthodoxy is as much a hazard as a solution to societal problems. I believe compassion, integrity and open argument are the route to fairness and avoidance of the pitfalls you mention. That's why I am so frustrated when people intentionally misconstrue another's position or fail to provide rationale for their own, as may be obvious ;).
I have no interest in correctness for show. I want fairness as far as it's possible to provide it, and transparency of motive from those thwarting it. This is of course at odds with commercial priorities.

In this particular case, I am far from convinced that there is a loud minority arguing over something silly, as many seem to suggest. I think those who pose this as an issue about the well being of the women employed as podium girls are utterly misconstruing the argument. I don't have any major concerns about those individuals, nor is my argument in any way undermined by them liking the job they're doing. Why would it be?

I see a conflict between the supposed aspiration to equality and respect, the outrage against those who disrespect or abuse women in various ways every day, and the reality of putting women on display purely as sexual objects. These are not compatible without some real mental gymnastics. Of course human beings are great at those, but they have nasty consequences.

The issue is that fairness comes from individuals. You really will fail if you try to mandate fairness. If some people want to objectify women, you removing the women won't make them better people. The only people really being affected here are the podium girls losing their jobs.
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [CalamityJane88] [ In reply to ]
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CalamityJane88 wrote:
I'm not convinced that podium girls have a bad effect on society. I haven't heard any compelling argument or analysis about it-- I only hear that the podium girls make some people feel uncomfortable or feel like women are objectified.

Do sexy women make you feel uncomfortable? That's your problem, in my opinion. Why is it the problem of the sexy woman? Look someplace else if you don't like it.

If sexy women are objectified, why is it their problem? Shouldn't we blame it on the person who objectifies, rather than the sexy woman? I predict that high heels, miniskirts and push up bras will be blamed next. We'll need to get rid of those so women won't be objectified.

Please discuss a general principle that can guide our thinking on this debate, such as personal autonomy, freedom to live and work without harassment, personal responsibility, freedom of expression, etc.

This is my thought. When I look at a podium girl, I don’t think, “hey women are only objects for men’s sexual desires.”

Frankly I look down upon those who think that way.
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, Hammer Down!

To me, there is a big difference between objectifying someone and viewing someone in a sexual way.

If you (not YOU) objectify someone, you dismiss or eliminate a portion of who they are.

Everyone has multiple identities, right? I'm a daughter, sister, mother, wife, lover, triathlete, lawyer, and sexy m.f. (as Prince would say.)

If you objectify me, you view me only as a sexual being whose other identies are not valid. Man, you're a pervy jerk!

If you view me in a sexual light, you're admiring my sexiness while realizing that I am a complex person with many accomplishments. Thank you!

Maybe we should teach our boys and girls to admire sexiness in a respectful way.

Notice how the difference lies within the mind of the observer? It's not the podium girls. It's the attitude of men (and women) looking at them.
Last edited by: CalamityJane88: Mar 5, 18 11:49
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [Emilio] [ In reply to ]
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Non issue presented as big deal, so dumb people are busy fighting\talking about it, while other real issues are getting addressed behind closed doors.

Lets liberate those poor podium girls because they do not know what they are doing, and are probably forced to do it...modern day sexual slavery...Those girls are probably scared for life, how can they kiss strange man on the cheek? We need to ban this. And legalize marijuana so they can finally relax and forget those dark podium days, after they get stoned they might actually make good decisions and kiss who they want not who they are asked to kiss.
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [sebo2000] [ In reply to ]
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sebo2000 wrote:
Non issue presented as big deal, so dumb people are busy fighting\talking about it, while other real issues are getting addressed behind closed doors.

Lets liberate those poor podium girls because they do not know what they are doing, and are probably forced to do it...modern day sexual slavery...Those girls are probably scared for life, how can they kiss strange man on the cheek? We need to ban this. And legalize marijuana so they can finally relax and forget those dark podium days, after they get stoned they might actually make good decisions and kiss who they want not who they are asked to kiss.

I assume your second paragraph should have been in pink.

“I know that more than one of my colleagues is married to a podium girl or former podium girl,” the German rider Jens Voigt said. “I could name 10 off the top of my head.”
One former hostess, Melanie Simonneau, met the American rider George Hincapie on the Tour podium in 2003. They locked eyes. And that was that.
“I pretty much ended up chasing her throughout the entire Tour de France,” Hincapie said. “I finally got her number and she said, ‘I’m totally not allowed to talk to you.’ ”
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [CalamityJane88] [ In reply to ]
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My 2+ cents:
Jane is sexy!
A1 is quite possibly a bot (Russian?)
Let the womens decide what's best for them.
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
sebo2000 wrote:
Non issue presented as big deal, so dumb people are busy fighting\talking about it, while other real issues are getting addressed behind closed doors.

Lets liberate those poor podium girls because they do not know what they are doing, and are probably forced to do it...modern day sexual slavery...Those girls are probably scared for life, how can they kiss strange man on the cheek? We need to ban this. And legalize marijuana so they can finally relax and forget those dark podium days, after they get stoned they might actually make good decisions and kiss who they want not who they are asked to kiss.


I assume your second paragraph should have been in pink. ...

But not the first paragraph?

As far as I know nobody has suggested banning anything. So any talk of freedoms or legislation isn't really needed. It seems to me (and I'm happy to be proven wrong) that this is a bit like a company, that used to use an image of a house wife dutifully doing house work until the husband came home, to advertise something. Then the company thought that it looked a bit dated and advertised in a different way. No laws were passed, it is entirely possible actors involved died of poverty but it seems unlikely. Similarly my understanding is that ASO have decided to do things differently. That's pretty much it. Again - happy to be corrected.
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [OddSlug] [ In reply to ]
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I think the word ban is being thrown around as a carry over from the last thread about podium girls... I don't think this type of "modelling" will ever be illegal because they and their employers are not doing anything against the law.

Despite the difference of views - I appreciate that there is a conversation being held about this topic. It is always good to have these conversations cuz otherwise, we get stuck in our own silos and ways of thinking. Despite the small amount of mud-slinging, it has been a very thoughtful conversation from both sides.

But really - is anyone going to stop watching F1 or TdF because there are no more podium girls? People are using the argument that there's no harm having them there when yeah, there actually is - it's part of the publicity machine that re-enforces stereotypes of a historically marginalised group. The need for podium girls is now outdated - I think that society has moved on from objectifying pretty girls and treating them as if they're men's trophies, because that's what these girls are essentially (except the guy can't take her home and put her on the mantelpiece, but I suppose they are standing on his podium).

If you tell your daughters or nieces that this is so over the top PC and tell them that these podium girls don't look subservient at all (kiss the guy on the cheek, stand there and look pretty but don't speak, make sure you show some skin too).. what do you think these girls are going to grow up thinking about themselves and expectations of who they should be and what they're capable of doing (no no... not the person winning the race, you're the wrong gender).

This has nothing to do with sexiness, being prudish or not. It is about perpetuating stereotypes and having strong role models for our girls to look up to.

What's the harm of not having them there? That these girls won't have jobs with great perks and kiss sweaty guys on their cheeks while millions of men ogle them? They can't do what they want to do? Not really strong points as all jobs and industries evolve to stay relevant. Podium girls = irrelevant.
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [Emilio] [ In reply to ]
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The one and only reason I'd continue watching the broadcast after the race was over was to check out the podium girls. I have zero interest in watching the winning riders spray champagne or get gifts from local dignitaries. So for the broadcasters that's a few extra commercial blocks I won't be exposed to.
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [Emilio] [ In reply to ]
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What's next, are they going to get rid of the bouquets of flowers because we only use them for their beauty? We going to replace them with a nice shrubbery?
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [snail] [ In reply to ]
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snail wrote:
I think the word ban is being thrown around as a carry over from the last thread about podium girls... I don't think this type of "modelling" will ever be illegal because they and their employers are not doing anything against the law.

Despite the difference of views - I appreciate that there is a conversation being held about this topic. It is always good to have these conversations cuz otherwise, we get stuck in our own silos and ways of thinking. Despite the small amount of mud-slinging, it has been a very thoughtful conversation from both sides.

But really - is anyone going to stop watching F1 or TdF because there are no more podium girls? People are using the argument that there's no harm having them there when yeah, there actually is - it's part of the publicity machine that re-enforces stereotypes of a historically marginalised group. The need for podium girls is now outdated - I think that society has moved on from objectifying pretty girls and treating them as if they're men's trophies, because that's what these girls are essentially (except the guy can't take her home and put her on the mantelpiece, but I suppose they are standing on his podium).

If you tell your daughters or nieces that this is so over the top PC and tell them that these podium girls don't look subservient at all (kiss the guy on the cheek, stand there and look pretty but don't speak, make sure you show some skin too).. what do you think these girls are going to grow up thinking about themselves and expectations of who they should be and what they're capable of doing (no no... not the person winning the race, you're the wrong gender).

This has nothing to do with sexiness, being prudish or not. It is about perpetuating stereotypes and having strong role models for our girls to look up to.

What's the harm of not having them there? That these girls won't have jobs with great perks and kiss sweaty guys on their cheeks while millions of men ogle them? They can't do what they want to do? Not really strong points as all jobs and industries evolve to stay relevant. Podium girls = irrelevant.
Well said. If the sports are worth watching, that won't change if they drop thisstuff. If you want to look at models, there are other avenues. Let's not normalise it, pretend it's something it's not, and perpetuate these stereotypes.
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Re: Tour de France to Drop Podium Girls [Sunday] [ In reply to ]
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Sunday wrote:
My 2+ cents:
Jane is sexy!
A1 is quite possibly a bot (Russian?)
Let the womens decide what's best for them.
Who's A1? If it's me, you've managed to get 50% of a 4 digit handle wrong. Well done.
And yes, I'm a bot. With your attention to detail I should have known you'd spot that one.

Your two cents are worth.......... nothing (No offense)
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