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Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes
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I was just wondering, what is the difference between the Time Trial Bikes in the TDF and the triathlon bikes that Triathletes use? Is there a difference or are they the same?

KYROCKET
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Re: Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes [KYROCKET] [ In reply to ]
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I guess it depends. For us, there is no difference, a P3 is a P3. There aren't too many other companies in the Tour that make triathlon bikes per se, in fact most don't make time trial frames either. But if you see a Pinarello Montello or a Trek TT bike at a triathlon it would be the same frame as in the Tour (except for Lance's bike, or Hincapie, and maybe a few others who have non-production frames). The only company in the Tour other than Cervelo that I can think of that makes triathlon bikes in the narrow definition of the word would be Cannondale, but its Tour team does not use them, they use custom TT frames that Cannondale does not sell to the public. But maybe I'm forgetting somebody.

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Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
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Re: Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes [KYROCKET] [ In reply to ]
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To add to what Gerard said, check the UCI rules- seat angles restriction and the like make the frames be more road angled. Most of those guys do not also want to change their positions over a three-week Tour.

The Pinarello Montello (way too expensive for most) and the Trek OCLV TT bike are basically closer to road angles than the typical tri bike. Also, many teams use custom built bikes (again, reiterating what Gerard said) that are unavailable for off-the-peg sale. You could get one of those bikes (maybe), but you would have to pay for it.
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Re: Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes [gerard] [ In reply to ]
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"But if you see a Pinarello Montello or a Trek TT bike at a triathlon it would be the same frame as in the Tour (except for Lance's bike, or Hincapie, and maybe a few others who have non-production frames)"

Pardon my ignorance... I've been told, and can see, that Hincapie's frame is not a Trek production unit, but I understood that Lance's bike is a stock Trek TT frame. It looks stock too. What's different about it?

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Re: Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes [IronDad] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
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"But if you see a Pinarello Montello or a Trek TT bike at a triathlon it would be the same frame as in the Tour (except for Lance's bike, or Hincapie, and maybe a few others who have non-production frames)"


Pardon my ignorance... I've been told, and can see, that Hincapie's frame is not a Trek production unit, but I understood that Lance's bike is a stock Trek TT frame. It looks stock too. What's different about it


That I'd like to know, too.
I ride a Trek teamtimetrial bike and please tell me what's the difference to the bikes tuhe USPS team rides.

regards,

Frank
PS: here is the bike:
http://www.fjw.privat.t-online.de/bild2003_1.htm

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.
Last edited by: Bavarian_Frank: Jul 10, 03 5:39
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Re: Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes [Bavarian_Frank] [ In reply to ]
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If you watched the team TT stage you would have seen Frankie Andreau describe the difference between Lance's TT bike and the team TT bike. Lance's has a honeycomb structure at the bottom bracket and at the head tube saving even more weight from the standard Trek OCLV TT frame.
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Re: Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes [kcwiii] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
If you watched the team TT stage you would have seen Frankie Andreau describe the difference between Lance's TT bike and the team TT bike. Lance's has a honeycomb structure at the bottom bracket and at the head tube saving even more weight from the standard Trek OCLV TT frame.


All Trek TT bikes are OCLV HC bikes and not just OCLV bikes like the 5x00 series bikes. Sadly I cannot watch US television over here in Germany where such technical details are commented on.

regards,

Frank

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.
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Re: Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes [Bavarian_Frank] [ In reply to ]
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I am not in the US either, but you can watch clips via the web site and also listen to live commentary http://tdf.olntv.com/

Rgds

Pete
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Re: Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes [IronDad] [ In reply to ]
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Lance's TT frame is last year's model, painted to look like this year's. It does not have the round seatpost recepticle, it has the old continuous seattube and shim system at the top.

It is rather ironic that Trek continues to claim USPS is the only team on stock bikes, when that is incorrect on so many levels. Comparing stock and team BIKES renders many differences, in the spec alone (clincher Bontragers, Bontrager stem or bars, etc.). In fact the Trek team replica spec probably differs more from what the team actually uses than is the case for most other team replicas.

Even if they meant stock FRAMES, this is obviously not true for the team as a whole, whereas it is true for several other teams.

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Gerard Vroomen
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Re: Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes [KYROCKET] [ In reply to ]
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I will leave the equipment technical observations to the real gurus on this. What I do notice is that ALL of the riders in the TDF are well fitted to their bikes. They look comfortable, are obviously developing maximal(huge) power and are reasononably to very aero on the bike.

Standing on the sidelines at a recent large triathlon, I can only say this about a very few triathletes. I still get the impression that many triathletes are ill-fitted to their bikes. They look to be uncomfortable. Not sure about power out-put and are very un-aerodynamically positioned( even on top-of-the-line aero/TT bikes).


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Why would Trek not lie about the "Team Bikes" being off the shelf frames? Hell, for years they have told us all that bike that I know for a fact at built at Merida factories (China, Tiwan) are made in the US...I guess if you paint them here that is enough.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes [Bavarian_Frank] [ In reply to ]
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I think Hincapie's bike is aluminum, an older model that fit him better than the new oclv models. I am no guru I think I heard that while watching the prologue.
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Re: Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes [gerard] [ In reply to ]
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What about lightspeed. Don't they have a tour team? Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they ride the Blade? ONCE used to ride stock TT/triathlon frames, but alas, no more. There's another team running stock TT's, but I can't remember who right now. Oh well, maybe later.
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Re: Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes [Ze Gopha] [ In reply to ]
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Litespeed used to sponsor Lotto, but they (Lotto)are on Eddy Mercx bikes this season. Litespeed isn't in the tour this year.

Euskatel ride stock Orbea TT frames (stock in the sense that all the Orbea TT frames are custom, and they will build one for you.) The same goes for Cofidis, who are all riding re-badged Cyfac bikes, and he would be glad to sell one to you, albeit with his name on it rather than MBK/Decathlon/Gitane/whoever...

The Once bike looks to me to be a prototype of the next production bike they do. I can't believe they would go to through the trouble and expense of building molds for something like that, and not plan to sell it. The "only 100 made" quote that keeps popping up was in reference to the centennial tour road bikes the team is riding, not the TT rig. If Giant does come to market with a TT rig like this, look out - they may be a serious player on the Tri scene soon (if the geometry is on...)

MH

Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/
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Re: Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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G.Hincapie's bike is a custom aluminum. Very similiar to the custom rig that they did for Peter Reid. From what I've heard through the grapevine, they're both too tall for the TTT.



That new Giant TT bike *looks* really sweet... If they can put "good" geometry on it [and spec it well], then it would/should sell well if they bring it to production... Let's hope they do...
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Re: Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes [gerard] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not sure if it really matters whether the pro riders are on stock bikes or not. Most people do not possess the flexibility or the anorexic body type (small shoulders, <5% body fat) required to fit on a Tour time trial bike. In other words, if someone buys a bike just because their favorite cyclist rides it, that person may well be shooting themselves in the foot.

Besides, why would any USAT or USCF athlete want to subject themselves to the requirements of the UCI if they do not have to?

John "82 degree S.A." Royal
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Re: Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes [john] [ In reply to ]
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The observation about the tour riders looking very comfortable is correct, but keep in mind these guys are like cats. They would be comfortable in just about any position. If I were to hop on one of these bikes with the seat tip 5 cm or more behind the bottom bracket, you would need concrete blocks to get my shoulders low and my ever expanding middle would rest in my lap.

Not too many of us can learn much from these guys' positions, but they are interesting to examine.
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Re: Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes [johnphillips] [ In reply to ]
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"G.Hincapie's bike is a custom aluminum. Very similiar to the custom rig that they did for Peter Reid. From what I've heard through the grapevine, they're both too tall for the TTT."

i don't know about hincapie, but there's no way the trek ttt bike would fit peter, who as of a week or two ago has switched to specialized anyway. this is also going to be an interesting experiment, because the latter refused to make a custom bike for his wife, who left specialized as a result. as of now, i don' t know of a specialized bike that really would work for the way peter rides these days. but perhaps they've got a bike in the works that they'll show at interbike that would work for peter.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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My stupid observation! [ In reply to ]
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Hey, I get it. "In the Works" specialized stuff, very clever. Or did you mean it that way?
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Re: My stupid observation! [Ze Gopha] [ In reply to ]
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"Hey, I get it. "In the Works" specialized stuff, very clever. Or did you mean it that way?'

in retrospect.... why, sure i did

:-O

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes [gerard] [ In reply to ]
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Orbea makes a TT and a Triathlon frame. The Euskatel team uses the TT frame which is a bit heavier and much lower in the front than their Triathlon frame. It is the same TT frame you can buy from your local dealer. The riders have to go fast and then can get off and sip Evian while getting their rub-down; triathletes get off and go run for miles. Comfort as a compromise to performance is seldom addressed on a TT frame.

Dave Koesel - Category Leader Roval, Power, On-bike Components
https://rovalcomponents.com/
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Re: Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes [gerard] [ In reply to ]
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I think Trek's add DO say stock FRAMES. That's what Trek builds, they aren't the ones to determine what rims, hubs, pedals or handlebar tape the team chooses to ride?

And also, why would anyone take serious issue with Trek saying USPS rides stock frames, when most do, but they accomodate a rider or two that simply do not fit the mold sizewise for a particular model. It's not like they are saying that, but then going out and building some superior frame for the best rider. They are saying it, but making an exception for a domestique who is larger than what fits their carbon frame.
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Re: Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes [Trigeek] [ In reply to ]
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[reply]I think Trek's add DO say stock FRAMES. That's what Trek builds, they aren't the ones to determine what rims, hubs, pedals or handlebar tape the team chooses to ride?

And also, why would anyone take serious issue with Trek saying USPS rides stock frames, when most do, but they accomodate a rider or two that simply do not fit the mold sizewise for a particular model. It's not like they are saying that, but then going out and building some superior frame for the best rider. They are saying it, but making an exception for a domestique who is larger than what fits their carbon frame.[/reply]

I don't know if it's a big deal or not, but I'll tell you why I think it's dishonest in a way that Trek doesn't need. For example on their website at http://www.trekbikes.com/tour_de_france/ where it says "The only stock production bikes in the Tour."

1) So the BIKES part is not true, not even close, as you indicate yourself.

2) Trek does determine to a large extend what the team rides (they own Bontrager for example), but more importantly, they determine 100% of what Trek sells. so if they want to claim the team to ride stock bikes, they don't have to change what the team rides, they can put Deda stems and bars on their high-end bikes instead of Bontrager. They don't, because Bontrager is much cheaper for them since it's in-house, but to me that means you can't say stock bikes when you willingly spec non-team parts while you have the opportunity to go out and buy Deda parts for it.

3) the ONLY part in their statement isn't true, there are several other stock bikes in the Tour, and some teams ride exclusively on stock bikes.

4) You indicate that some are just modifications, not better bikes for the team leader that the average person can't get, but that is exactly what Lance's TT bike is. A frame that the average person can't get. Last year you could at least get something that was fairly close to it, but this year you can't.

Trek is a great company that makes great bikes, but I think it is below their status to infer other teams don't ride stock products when in fact they are much closer to do that than USPS is.

______________
Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle
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Re: Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes [gerard] [ In reply to ]
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Gerard,

I do agree to your 1,2,3 points. I've not really ready their advertising that close, but always assumed, or thought I'd read 'frames'. And, yes, I also agree if they say 'ONLY', that's just plain wrong, and we all know that's not correct. Bicycle Guide did have an article a while back where they discussed if the pros 'really' ride the same frames(talking more of road frames than TT in the article, which I consider more important, that's the bulk of the riding, and I can see a company doing a one off frame, for a one off disipline like a TT or special climb), and they said that basically is true in most cases.

On 4, I wouldn't consider that an issue, if Lance chooses to ride last years frame because he likes the seatpost setup better, but otherwise it's a production frame.

I wouldn't consider the advertising seriously ary unless they state complete lies or misrepresentation, like, Lance is riding our 2.4lb OCLV frame, when in fact he's riding some one off, handbuilt 1.8lb superframe that no-one else could get.

(like you mention in 1-3, they are pretty much doing that, either like they would probably claim, by negligence("we MEAN frames when we say BIKE") or by saying the claim WAS true, and the text just hasn't been changed(ONLY production frames ridden), but wrong is wrong.

I do agree completely with your main point, that by streeettttchiiiing the truth to the point that's it's not the truth anymore, they do themselves a disservice.

By the way the CSC bikes REALLY look awesome out there.
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Re: Tour Time Trial Bikes versus Triathlon Bikes [Trigeek] [ In reply to ]
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being as I hate typing...and my points require more time than I am willing to take typing...I have one simple question...



Why does it seem that people accept Trek lieing in their ad's as just an everyday thing that occurs? Just because damn near every company "shadows" the truth in ads, does not make it right for Trek to do it as well. Seems to me that Trek is the only company to make this blanket "the pros are on the same bike you can buy" statement. That just is not the case. White lies are still lies.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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