Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter

Aug 3, 15 0:02

Post #1 of 372 (24539 views)

So, it looks like Tom D. tested positive for synthetic testosterone in an OOC test from July 9th. He'll have to miss the Tour of Utah while they sort things out.

He also issued a very unequivocal denial on Twitter:

"Tonight has been one of the worst nights of my life. While I was eating dinner with my team the night before Tour of Utah I received a call For USADA notifying me that a out of competition test I gave July 9th has tested positive for, from what I understand, synthetic testosterone. I have not taken this or any other banned substance.
I spoke with them and my team and I will have to sit out the Tour of Utah as I wait for the B sample as well as look into All the possible ways that could have produced this result. I would never ever take anything like this especially after everything I have gone through the last years. This makes absolutely no sense. I will now, as I wait for the B test, have the supplements I take, tested to see if this is what caused it. I feel incredibly hurt, frustrated, and angry by this. I don't understand how or why this happened and still can't even accept this is true. I love cycling. I love it so fucking much. I love the races, the rides, the people, the businesses, I love it all. Nothing compares for me."

Interesting situation. It will be intriguing to see how it all unfolds.

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [craigj532] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 1:43

Post #2 of 372 (24418 views)

The denial carries no weight, it's a pretty standard response to a test failure whether the athlete is clean or dirty. Slightly worrying that he says that now he'll "have the supplements I take tested", you'd hope that with his past and with the team he rides on that he'd already be extremely rigorous about what supplements he took. Taking contaminated supplements might just about be excusable for somebody new to the sport or riding for a low-budget team, but for a convicted doper riding on a World Tour team it would be pretty lax to not be 100% sure of what you were putting in your body.

The B sample hardly ever does anything but confirm the original finding (in fact I can't think of any examples right now where the B sample has come back different?), what will be interesting is how high the testosterone levels were, and what the story is as to how it got there in the first place.

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [cartsman] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 2:36

Post #3 of 372 (24328 views)

How utterly depressing and also, how unsurprising. I always felt he had little between his ears at the best of times but this confirms it. They don't normally test for synthetic testosterone unless they have a reason for thinking it is present. And presumably this will mean a life ban. Good riddance...

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [craigj532] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 2:40

Post #4 of 372 (24317 views)

A doper dopes? Next we'll be thinking Justin Gatlin shouldn't be running faster than ever the older he gets!!!

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Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [BayDad] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 2:49

Post #5 of 372 (24300 views)

I don't have anything to add to the Tom Danielson discussion, but the Justin Gatlin situation is a joke.

I'm dreading the Men's 100m Final in Rio, if he gets on the podium (or god forbid wins it) it will just be a slap in the face of everyone watching. What does that say about the state of the sport?!

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [FeketeBlob] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 3:27

Post #6 of 372 (24199 views)

FeketeBlob wrote:

How utterly depressing and also, how unsurprising. I always felt he had little between his ears at the best of times but this confirms it. They don't normally test for synthetic testosterone unless they have a reason for thinking it is present. And presumably this will mean a life ban. Good riddance...

The synthetic testosterone test is triggered by the testosterone/epitestosterone ratio test and used for confirmation. Occasionallly it will be used alone.

Funny enough, there are several athletes who have been caught with the testosterone test, admitted to using various drugs, but still maintain they were not using testosterone at the time they tested positive for it.

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [Arch Stanton] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 3:46

Post #7 of 372 (24126 views)

True, Floyd Landis being the most prominent.

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [FeketeBlob] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 4:05

Post #8 of 372 (24067 views)

Sucks if it's true, I enjoyed chasing Tommy up Mt. Lemmon earlier this year, dude is an animal.

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [cartsman] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 4:26

Post #9 of 372 (23996 views)

cartsman wrote:

The denial carries no weight, it's a pretty standard response to a test failure whether the athlete is clean or dirty. Slightly worrying that he says that now he'll "have the supplements I take tested", you'd hope that with his past and with the team he rides on that he'd already be extremely rigorous about what supplements he took. Taking contaminated supplements might just about be excusable for somebody new to the sport or riding for a low-budget team, but for a convicted doper riding on a World Tour team it would be pretty lax to not be 100% sure of what you were putting in your body.
....

Agree. In fact it was his statement about his supplements that makes me think he is lying, pretty much the standard excuse. 'Supplements' that are legal really do very little IMHO.....pros know this. Not much reason for a pro to need products from GNC if they are eating properly. .02

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [FeketeBlob] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 4:39

Post #10 of 372 (23949 views)

I thought the final version of that story was that Floyd was doing blood bags during the TdF, not testosterone, but that his doctor cocked up and gave him a blood bag which had been extracted during a training camp in which he was dosed up on testosterone as well? So he got the double whammy of a load of fresh blood AND a big dose of testosterone. Which would certainly go some way towards explaining his performance that day!

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [craigj532] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 4:41

Post #11 of 372 (23932 views)

Here's what his denial really meant:

"I've being doing it for years without being caught, and pay good doctors good money to make sure about it. How could this happen. This makes absolutely no sense."

http://www.jt10000.com/

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [cartsman] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 5:06

Post #12 of 372 (23824 views)

cartsman wrote:

I thought the final version of that story was that Floyd was doing blood bags during the TdF, not testosterone, but that his doctor cocked up and gave him a blood bag which had been extracted during a training camp in which he was dosed up on testosterone as well? So he got the double whammy of a load of fresh blood AND a big dose of testosterone. Which would certainly go some way towards explaining his performance that day!

Nope. Landis still adamantly denies using testosterone during that Tour. In fact he says his various B samples that were tested make no sense. They had him negative after the penultimate stage, the critical time trial, and positive after the last stage, for which he says you would have to be an idiot to dope for the last stage when the race is already won. I asked him about contamination of other products he might have been taking at that Tour, like HGH, but he did not think that was realistic possibility.

He also says that when USADA got all the paperwork from the French lab, the UCLA lab was asked to review it. The people at UCLA said it was not a positive under their lab standards. Some in USADA wanted to drop the case, but Tygart pushed on anyway. This is the reason Landis' team pressed so hard to have his B sample tested at a lab other than French one, and why USADA opposed that.

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [cartsman] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 5:07

Post #13 of 372 (23819 views)

cartsman wrote:

I thought the final version of that story was that Floyd was doing blood bags during the TdF, not testosterone, but that his doctor cocked up and gave him a blood bag which had been extracted during a training camp in which he was dosed up on testosterone as well? So he got the double whammy of a load of fresh blood AND a big dose of testosterone. Which would certainly go some way towards explaining his performance that day!

Based on Tyler Hamilton's book I don't think you can lay that one on the doctor if it actually is the case that he tested positive due to a blood bag. If you haven't read the book, here is how they did the blood bags.

1. Give a bag.
2. Come back about 4 weeks later. Give TWO bags, reinfuse the bag from 1 above.
3. Come back about 4 weeks later. Give THREE bags, reinfuse the two bags from 2 above.

All of the bags to be used in the Tour were given at the same time. If they had T in them, you can't really blame the doctor as all of the bags are the same.

Also, if I remember correctly, his T level wasn't really very high at all, it was just that his T/E level was too high and that they found exeogenous (sp?) T to boot.

Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [cbre] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 5:11

Post #14 of 372 (23799 views)

cbre wrote:

Sucks if it's true, I enjoyed chasing Tommy up Mt. Lemmon earlier this year, dude is an doped up animal.

Fixed it for you.

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 5:16

Post #15 of 372 (23777 views)

Thanks, I read the book but guess I hadn't thought through that it would be the rider's responsibility for making sure the blood they were giving was clean, not the doc's

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [Arch Stanton] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 5:24

Post #16 of 372 (23748 views)

Arch Stanton wrote:

cartsman wrote:

I thought the final version of that story was that Floyd was doing blood bags during the TdF, not testosterone, but that his doctor cocked up and gave him a blood bag which had been extracted during a training camp in which he was dosed up on testosterone as well? So he got the double whammy of a load of fresh blood AND a big dose of testosterone. Which would certainly go some way towards explaining his performance that day!

Nope. Landis still adamantly denies using testosterone during that Tour. In fact he says his various B samples that were tested make no sense. They had him negative after the penultimate stage, the critical time trial, and positive after the last stage, for which he says you would have to be an idiot to dope for the last stage when the race is already won. I asked him about contamination of other products he might have been taking at that Tour, like HGH, but he did not think that was realistic possibility.

He also says that when USADA got all the paperwork from the French lab, the UCLA lab was asked to review it. The people at UCLA said it was not a positive under their lab standards. Some in USADA wanted to drop the case, but Tygart pushed on anyway. This is the reason Landis' team pressed so hard to have his B sample tested at a lab other than French one, and why USADA opposed that.

So did the B samples not match the A samples? If that was the case wouldn't the tests have been thrown out as clearly that was a sign that either the samples had been tampered with or the lab had messed up the labelling? I assume Floyd still admits to using blood bags, so is his story that he took them before the time trial but not after? Problem with all these stories is that with all the layers of UCI politics, riders lying, lawyers, journalists with often only a loose grasp of the science, and some fairly complex science underlying it all, it's virtually impossible to ever actually be sure what happened and who's version (if any of them) is the truth. Sometimes I almost (but not quite) agree with those who think it would be easier to just let them all dope and be done with it.

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [cartsman] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 5:51

Post #17 of 372 (23602 views)

cartsman wrote:

So did the B samples not match the A samples? If that was the case wouldn't the tests have been thrown out as clearly that was a sign that either the samples had been tampered with or the lab had messed up the labelling?

Testosterone testing at that time was a two step process. Samples were screened for their testosterone:epitestosterone ratio. If it was over four then a carbon isotope ratio test would be used to verify synthetic testosterone. All of Landis' samples save one passed the ratio test. Ironically, the arbitration panel threw out the T:TE ratio for that test due to shoddy labwork but convicted him based on the CIR test. To add insult to injury, the technician that did the B sample testing screwed it up 27 times before getting the desired result.

During the runup to the hearing, USADA had all of Landis' B samples tested using the rather dubious reasoning that it needed to validate the test procedure and the results would not be used as evidence. It is those that Landis says make no sense.

cartsman wrote:

I assume Floyd still admits to using blood bags, so is his story that he took them before the time trial but not after?

I have not asked about the specific timing of his blood transfusions. But he says he was not using testosterone during that year. He found that HGH worked as well, did not have the same side effects, was undetectable, and had other benefits like raising his hematocrit three points without using anything else.

cartsman wrote:

Problem with all these stories is that with all the layers of UCI politics, riders lying, lawyers, journalists with often only a loose grasp of the science, and some fairly complex science underlying it all, it's virtually impossible to ever actually be sure what happened and who's version (if any of them) is the truth. Sometimes I almost (but not quite) agree with those who think it would be easier to just let them all dope and be done with it.

I don't think people understand just how corrupt the UCI is. Unfortunately the CIRC report turned out to be a whitewash, or basically a modified limited hangout, so I don't see things getting any better.

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [BayDad] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 6:20

Post #18 of 372 (23459 views)

BayDad wrote:

A doper dopes? Next we'll be thinking Justin Gatlin shouldn't be running faster than ever the older he gets!!!

They should just have a listing for doped up times. In that case Gatlin has surpassed Ben Johnson's 9.79. Carry on with this thread. Nothing to see here....another doper busted, and another ex doper will likely win the IAAF 100m finals in Beijing this month.

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 6:48

Post #19 of 372 (23308 views)

devashish_paul wrote:

BayDad wrote:

A doper dopes? Next we'll be thinking Justin Gatlin shouldn't be running faster than ever the older he gets!!!

They should just have a listing for doped up times. In that case Gatlin has surpassed Ben Johnson's 9.79. Carry on with this thread. Nothing to see here....another doper busted, and another ex doper will likely win the IAAF 100m finals in Beijing this month.

I'm not sure I believe that Gatlin is an ex-doper, but then I'm not sure that I believe much of the rest of the field is clean either. I would love to believe that Bolt is clean and is just a physiological freak and I'm going to carry on clinging to that hope until proven otherwise, even if the sceptic in me is laughing out loud and slapping his knees at the thought that the fastest runner in the dirtiest event, from a country with virtually no testing regime, and whose team-mates have nearly all served doping bans, could possibly be clean.

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [Arch Stanton] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 7:14

Post #20 of 372 (23143 views)

i like danielson's wikipedia page:

Born in East Lyme, Connecticut, Danielson currently resides in Boulder, Colorado, with his wife, Stephanie, and their children, Steven (b. 2010) and Stella (b. 2012).[2][35][36] After spending his childhood years in Connecticut, Danielson attended Fort Lewis College in Durango, Colorado.[36] Danielson considers both Boulder and Durango as his home towns. In addition to being married, Danielson has a girlfriend named Kourtney Compton, whom he met in Utah where she was working as a podium girl at the Tour of Utah.[36] It also appears he has doped... again.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 7:26

Post #21 of 372 (23066 views)

So let's recap....

1) Married and divorced from first wife
2) Doped for years when on Discovery and other teams
3) Re-marries and has two kids
4) Now also has girlfriend
5) tests positive for more doping
6) Still wears his hat backwards

Douchebag.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [craigj532] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 7:29

Post #22 of 372 (23046 views)

A couple points:

Vaughters has stated on a couple occasions that 1 positive could mean the end of the team.

If the B sample come backs positive lets see if Talansky comments as he did for guys like DiLuca.

An ex-pro has Danielson at $500k a year. Guys like Phil Gaimon must be eaten up inside over this.

Ironically, Horner has placed second at the Tour of Utah so he may now be the favorite.

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 7:32

Post #23 of 372 (23017 views)

Slowman wrote:

i like danielson's wikipedia page:

Born in East Lyme, Connecticut, Danielson currently resides in Boulder, Colorado, with his wife, Stephanie, and their children, Steven (b. 2010) and Stella (b. 2012).[2][35][36] After spending his childhood years in Connecticut, Danielson attended Fort Lewis College in Durango, Colorado.[36] Danielson considers both Boulder and Durango as his home towns. In addition to being married, Danielson has a girlfriend named Kourtney Compton, whom he met in Utah where she was working as a podium girl at the Tour of Utah.[36] It also appears he has doped... again.

Please tell me wiki can't be true (rolling eyes). Tommy D last doped in 2007, per his affidavit (rolling eyes again). I'm sure Vaughters ain't too happy these days- will the team fold?

In February, Vaughters told Cyclingnews, "It�s true we ask for that [scrutiny] and still in ten years we�ve not had a rider dope on our team. Ever. We�ve lived up to that. That was the initial promise. If that ever is broken then Doug and I are out.�

I wonder what Vaughter's spin will be on it, as they indeed are the poster child for "clean teams". Will Grandpa Horner now take Utah?

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/...n,+Tom+Affidavit.pdf

118. Although I did have one stage win, I finished a disappointing sixth overall at the

2006 Vuelta a Espa�a and by the end of the race I could tell that Johan had given up on me.

119. I continued to experience anxiety attacks and had trouble finishing well in races.

As a result, I stopped doping in 2007.

120. My last meeting with Dr. Michele Ferrari was in 2006.

Last edited by: mcycle: Aug 3, 15 8:06

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [Uncle Arqyle] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 7:37

Post #24 of 372 (22986 views)

@lancearmstrong: @Digger_forum @matthewlcooke good riddance fellas.

Seems LA is still a bit pissed with TD.

Re: Tom Danielson tests positive for testosterone, denies it on Twitter [Arch Stanton] [ In reply to ]

Aug 3, 15 7:45

Post #25 of 372 (22930 views)

I think Lance is more saying good riddance to the possibility of Vaughters closing up shop and leaving the sport.

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