I don't think you get pink font

From here.

2013 newest modern clincher 50mm depth 25mm width U shape carbon wheels with Sapim spokes, strong&stiff, View 50mm 25mm wide carbon wheels, OEM Product Details from Xiamen Far Sports Industry And Trade Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com

So you own these molds?

He also says that the DT Swiss 240 hubs are made in Japan, which is news to me.

The rim shapes are clearly not original... Hopefully tokyowheels doesn't keep up the song and dance.

James,

You mentioned in another forum that you are doing some kind of 'digital testing'. What is 'digital testing' and why are you doing it when everyone else in the industry does standard DIN testing.

What about your bead hook is different since the spec for this is clearly defined by ETRTO.

Am I understanding your post you have made here and on other forums correctly and are you saying that you own not only your molds but the factory they are produced in?

What carbon prepreg do you use?

What is the tonnage?

What are you testing on the braking surface?

Are your materials HTg? If so, is it in the prepreg or are you using a basalt treatment?

If you are using basalt how is it applied?

What temps have you tested your rims to? At what temps did they fail? What was the protocol? How did they fail? Do you have video of the test you can show? SGS test reports you can post?

Regarding the remarkable similarities between your rims and those offered by The Chinese trading company linked to earlier I am a little surprised that you have spent time responding to this thread and others like it in other forums but haven't yet bothered to investigate a potentially serious design infringement.


I look forward to your response.

Please go and look at a dt Swiss 240 hub then come back...

Thank you James for your candor. I am one of your "paying customers"; actually I've ordered 2 wheelsets from you. I've stated on my posts on this forum and another that I was skeptical and concerned with purchasing wheels made in mainland China.

I look forward to listening to the audio you recorded just to gain some insight into Tokyowheel and seeing the video you had planned to shoot. My fear is that you're opening yourself up to the naysayers to all sorts of ranting. There are those on this forum who won't understand this reference but anyone from a farm, ranch, or grew up in the country will understand this...."what kind of leather are you, boot strap or suede?" It's something my Dad used to say when we'd complain about chores around the home place. I hope you're boot strap because I feel the naysayers will only respond with negativity and venom to your latest post.

My $0.02 is that you're battling a negative stigma associated with "Made in China" and it will be a hard, fought battle. I for one am glad I took a chance. There are those who will say I'm gullible, naive, or worse. That's none of my concern so y'all just flame away; I am boot strap. I've also said that if I experience what I perceive as a manufacturing failure or defect that I'll be very vocal in an attempt to notify others.

I look forward to the transparency you discussed; sort of a paradigm shift and likely not easily done. Good luck.

None of the real concerns raised were addressed in you poignant novella, James.

Why are your products IDENTICAL IN EVERY WAY to those shown on the Farsports website, including the actual hub photos?

Someone is misrepresenting their connection to the products in question. Please clarify who you believe this to be.

This whole thread reads like an ad for this company.

What's the difference between Tokyo Wheels and FLO wheels that most of the Slowtwitch community seems to rave about and constantly give free promotion with posts on this forum? FLO also outsource their rims and hubs.

I own Zipp wheels and sure I paid more but feel better knowing they're backed by a large company with quality control and a proven track record. I also understand that some don't have as much discretionary cash or simply can't justify spending $3000+ on wheels that's where these companies come in. Will be interesting to see how Tokyo and Flo wheels stand the test of time. I'd love to be able to spend $1000 on my next wheelset and have same quality as my Zipps.

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Proud Kiwami Ambassador/Team Member
ask me anything about:
https://kiwamitri.com

People from FLO have come on to ST to post in threads about their products when there is an issue they can address (like why they haven't ramped up production). Almost a third of the posts in this thread are James from Tokyowheel flogging his products. FLO doesn't come on here to promote or advertise their products. James does, complete with pictures of satisfied customers.

That's the difference between them. There are a few people in this thread with positive things to say about Tokyowheel, but a third of them come from Tokyowheel itself.

Seems like a a great way to get free advertising, the way I see it Flo is no different. Anyways doesn't really matter as I stated before I'll stick with known brands until companies like FLO and Tokyowheel prove there products over the long term.

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Proud Kiwami Ambassador/Team Member
ask me anything about:
https://kiwamitri.com

I think my biggest beef is the transparency.

Flo admits readily what they created from the ground up and what they outsourced. Second, Flo owns their rim shape and design, whereas the rim shape used by Tokyo is used by dozens of other companies, and even worse Tokyo won't admit it. Maybe, and it's a big maybe, Tokyo has a unique layup or something but at the end of the day, it's going to have similar weight and the same aerodynamics as all of those other companies using the same rim. Finally, look at the value to the community of Flo's posts, information about tire aerodynamics, how they did Cfd, whereas Tokyo is clearly just selling wheels.

I have no big problems with Tokyo, except that it's the same bullshit that we see from all the re-labelers, "these are completely my own design, it just so happens that my rim shape is the exact same as all the other Chinese wheels."

I respectfully disagree, but I do agree that long-term results are necessary to prove that you have something better. I see Tokyowheel as being yet another company that imports Farspots (or similar) wheels, re-badges them and sells them at a much higher price. But that's just me, and you're right: time will tell.

Farsports is not the Asian OE distributor. They are the aftermarket distibuter for China.

If you assemble wheels in Taiwan you deal with Toni at Salloy, or, if you are big enough, with Sapim directly.

Please explain how your basalt is applied and why it is done that way. What do you do to keep it from peeling like most other basalt rims do.

What are the failure temps? What was the testing protocol? Do you have CE, UCI certification or SGS test reports?

How does your lay-up differ from Far-Sports considering your rims are the EXACT shape and weights?

If YOU own the molds why is Far Sports selling rims that are the EXACT rims shapes as you?

You mentioned 'digital testing' for your rims. What is this and why is it different from the DIN tests used by the rest of the industry?

When will we see the video and will there be a prize for the first person who correctly identifies the factory or anyone in the video?

I just got my set of Tokyo Wheels built around DT Swiss 240s Straight pulls and I am very happy. I was skeptical and I read pretty much every thread on every forum I could find including this one. I also asked James Ferrer alot of questions by email and was amazed at the speed of his responsiveness. Then I compared the specs of Tokyo Wheels against those being offered by Far Sports, all the ebay sellers, Alibaba - the Tokyo Wheels are indeed different. Pretty much all the other sellers have the same diameter wheels and they all have a rim width of between 20.5 and 23, My Tokyos are 25.5 in the front and 26 in the rear and having come to the conclusion that they are not just re-badged "same as" - I bought them and am very happy with them. From time of order to receipt was exactly 7 days (To Canada) and they look beautiful, roll perfectly true and are indeed very stiff. I took them into my LBS who built a lot of custom wheels and they were impressed too. So from my perspective, Tokyo Wheel and James Ferrer are the real deal and the product is not just a higher priced re-brand, they are unique ... I'm sold.

Very well done for a first post.

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Duathlete by choice?

Thanks. This forum has been very helpful to me and I'm sure countless others I'm glad to be part of the community.

I may be drinking the cool aid (maybe not the best reference for an international forum) but I have 2 sets of Tokyowheels and while I don't need them I'm about to order another set; 38 mm clinchers. Ok, so I too am new to the forum and have but a few posts to my name so all the high and mighty can just flame away. I posted on youtube and even took measurements with my micrometer because I felt my caliper wasn't accurate enough. I posted that data and asked for feedback; very few commented or had useful suggestions. I'm not going to pretend to know the science of wheels nor do I have time to learn. I barely have enough time to ride but I like my wheels so far. There is another forum in which someone requested some Tokyowheel rims and have his friend or acquaintance build up some wheels http://forums.roadbikereview.com/...purchase-316433.html We don't know this wheel builder but it will be interesting to learn his impressions as well as any analytical data that is shared. Skeptics will be skeptics, credulous people will be credulous, and others will take what data they can garner and make their own decisions. I'm very curious what is learned from this one wheel builder. OK, proceed to flame away.

They certainly seem to be spending a lot on advertising, both on adverts and people.

Is it just me, or does this seem like this thread is a bunch of new users that are shills for the company? Lots of new users that are pumping and dumping Tokyo Wheels.

Would be interesting to see the IP addresses for a bunch of the posters...

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speedySTATES

It really damages the "brand" to treat people like idiots, and by trying to trick them into believing various things about the "product".

I was thinking the same thing after reading the latest post. I said it before and I'll say it again: this whole thread reads like an advertisement for Tokyowheel. I don't see the difference between them and any other re-branded Chinese carbon wheel.