Streetview for reference: https://www.google.com/...RAz9LjD93uvUTaBQ!2e0

I'm undecided. Certainly not much debris in the picture. Kinda wide shoulder. I think it's one of those situations where if I was riding alone or with a small group, I'd go shoulder, but if there were a 50-rider high-speed peloton, I'd have no problem with the peloton taking the road there.

The rider hit a top speed just under 43mph. Lets be honest about this and acknowledge that most drivers are not saints and do not drive the exact speed limit.

Speed limit was 55. So a cyclist riding an avg 15-20mph slower than most vehicles would be puts himself and drivers at significant risk for an accident. Not saying he/she has no right to legally use the road. But in an attempt at safety and self-preservation, theres no way I'm going to be bombing a hill like that during a busy traffic time IN a lane doing 15-20mph less than 2+ton vehicles.

As a cyclist I don't trust someone coming up on me 15-20mph faster and relying on their brake reaction time or lane shift.

As a driver, I don't appreciate a cyclist taking the lane doing 15-20mph slower than me during a busy time with other cars and less time/space to react.

So just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD. And yes it CAN be an inconvenience depending on the situation but can also be a poor decision given the circumstances, regardless of the legal right to do it.


I'm a cyclist and can't stand ignorant drivers either, and I live in a rural area. It scares me to ride near cars and I'm certainly not going to go 43 down a hill normally, let alone with that much traffic.

It's shocking that someone who only knew you for seconds reached the same conclusion many others have. Shocking I say.

First, that was post #26. The original post simply said "bike lane" in order to make the point that some asshole rider had a perfectly good bike lane to use but instead arrogantly chose not to use it. There is no bike lane there. That is a fact. And the distinction between a road shoulder and a bike lane is one that is explicitly made in the California Vehicle Code. That is also a fact.

The OP also left out the fact that PCH is two lanes in both directions at that stretch of the road. That's a fact. This fact is important because its omission implies that the cyclist was brazenly occupying the sole lane available to other vehicles (which BTW he is entitled to under California law). But he was not doing so. That is a fact.

The OP also omitted that this incident occurred on a steep downhill. Another fact. Reading his initial post, you get the impression that the cyclist was just meandering down PCH in the middle of the road for no reason. But most experienced cyclists will take the lane when descending over 40mph, because hitting a rut, rock or glass at that speed is much more dangerous than doing so at 20mph.

I agree with you 100% that the rest is a matter of he said/he said and I did my best to present it as such. But the facts that we do know, in my opinion, support the cyclist's right to take the lane in this circumstance. And whether or not this was the case is the premise of the original post.

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Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099

OP referred to the shoulder as a bike lane, therefor his whole post is invalid? Seriously thanks for the laugh.

Unless it's since been changed, the posted speed limit is 45.

I would rather take the lane at that speed than try to dodge debris on the shoulder.

Maybe I'm just a Fred (likely), but I've done that descent often. It's actually one of the widest shoulders on PCH between Temescal and Zuma. Yes, there is some debris in the shoulder on occasion, and yes those eucalyptus (i think) trees sometimes shed a branch or two, and when that happens I enter the lane safely and get around it (I will concede that descending and entering a lane of traffic may give rise to additional danger, but I've never had it be a problem really, and I've never considered what I was doing dodging in and out of the lane - honestly the shoulder is so wide it would have to take a 6'+ branch all the way across it or a shitload of glass to make it all unusable). But I have never found that shoulder to be a mine strewn stretch of danger as it's being described (and it's a safe bet I wasn't doing 40 plus down it). I basically take a straight line, and then into the right turn lane to continue thru the intersection. Seth D. and the Big Orange boys disagree I know.

However, I do prefer to take the lane on PCH if I am in a larger peloton. I believe that is safer, as you avoid a large group going back and forth. Is that hypocritical? Maybe, but I think we've all been treated a little differently in traffic if we're solo vs. in a large group.

As an aside, a good friend of mine's brother got into an altercation with a driver on PCH last summer, driver came around, caught up to him, they had words, driver punched the cyclist, who ended on the ground with severe head injuries sending him to the ICU. That ultimately did not end well, sadly.

I still don't know who the rider was but if El Presidente is siding with the rider... WE ALL SHOULD!! There is no give in LaGrange... you ride like a dumbass, you get called a dumbass. When I started years ago, I was "paperboy". It wasn't a fun nickname... it was calling me out for sucking.

So, I say again, if El Presidente is siding with a rider... the driver was WRONG.

In the op I stated that your friend was riding in "right lane" of PCH. The implication would that there is also a left lane.

I totally understand that he is entitled to take the lane, but it was still dumb and dangerous. Also when I passed him he was not going 42 mph.

I'm entitled to walk down the street even if that street is occupied by a large pack of rabid dogs. Doesn't mean I actually should walk down that street.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Based on the streetview, I know where I would be riding: on the shoulder (unless I was riding with a large group).

Haha. My opinion is no more valid than anyone else's. And I was not there. But I do know that stretch of road. It's a 45mph speed limit there, the OP says he was doing 55mph and acknowledges that he was approaching a red light at the bottom of the hill. And that he was in no way inconvenienced at the cyclist's choice to take one of two available lanes to make that descent in what he viewed the safest possible manner and not taking his chances with glass, rocks and tree branches in the shoulder.

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Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099

Looks cleaner than the shit I ride through on a daily basis.

A kilometer from my office, the dirt is all the way into the lane now. This is an actual bike lane and a popular sprint segment that many of the clubs hammer weekly.
https://www.google.ca/...A87lVe6NgLUtEeaw!2e0


Gravel on the side of a highway where cars are doing 50mph... school buses turn around in the lot, dragging gravel out onto the road.
https://www.google.ca/...wvSTCD-w!2e0!6m1!1e1

If buddy cant ride a bike safely on that fairly clean road, he should re-evaluate his bike handling skills.

I'm shocked, shocked!!! by this thread. Not because of the content but shocked to learn that...
Bwoodtriguy, ChrisM, Robert Efthimos and other local homies of mine are here on ST and posting/lurking anonymously. WTF? fill out your profile so I can give you more than just a trail-nod or wave when I see you on our local routes.

Ian

PS. I live very near Sunset and PCH. I probably descend that hill from Pepperdine to Web Way 3x week (maybe twice, I prefer Old Malibu Road when coming home on PCH). I have my own style of riding that lends itself to less car interaction and more flats - that's just my choice.

Thanks for contribution.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

We've met, you actually did a fitting for me probably 5-6 years ago on my old Litespeed in your garage :)

When I'm descending at 40+ mph, especially if the road is twisty, I will take the lane, but when I do so, I keep an eye out for cars behind me. When someone catches up to me, I will move to the shoulder. If I have to slow down some to do that safely because of debris, ruts, gravel, whatever, then I slow down. On a road as busy as the PCH (I've ridden on the PCH, but not that section of it) I would be very very wary of taking the lane. On that straight section, I would not do it. I would stay on the shoulder. If that means I cannot go as fast as I would like because of road conditions, so be it, but there is no way you will not be holding up traffic on that road, even though it has 2 lanes. The lanes it has are often not enough for just vehicle traffic. I had a 13 mile high-speed descent on CO state hwy 7 on Sunday. I took the lane for most of it. It is one-lane in each direction, but not very crowded with traffic, unlike the PCH. 3 cars passed me. Once I had to slow down to safely ride on the shoulder. Took about 15 seconds. Everyone was happy. PCH is a totally different animal than that.

The law in California says you can take the lane only in certain circumstances and once a line of 5 cars has built up behind you are are required to pull over and let them pass.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/...p/vc/d11/c1/a4/21202

I do not think that taking the lane in this situation passes any of those tests. And 5 cars would back up behind you in 5 seconds. He should have ridden on the shoulder at a safe speed in case he encounters rough road conditions ahead.

Just because "most experienced cyclists" do it does not make it right. I see pro-tour riders doing rude crap sometimes. Just because they are amazing cyclists does not make it right.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

So now I have to scan through yeas of bike fit pics and cross reference a Chris with a litespeed? :)

Ian! I am about the least anonymous person on the Internet there is (well, at least for a civilian). When you see the screen name "refthimos" who else do you think it could be?

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Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099

Same with me if that street view is correct.

We've had four cyclists killed in almost a week's period recently in the Atlanta area. Right or wrong based on rights don't matter if you get killed. That sure looks like a wide shoulder and could handle 45 mph speeds from a solo cyclist without needing to get out into the traffic lane. I doubt I would get upset as a driver, but why would someone want to raise their risk when they did not have too?

No Robert you're right on the money - AND you named yourself as president of the club.

Thanks for speaking up on this situation. RESPECT!

Ian

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

HA! I was kind of thinking the same thing! We should do a ST group ride or something.

I bet a lot of us were on Baldy last weekend...

Here's a pic I took on an iPhone 5 minutes ago. It's a pretty damn clean and wide shoulder. There are some sealed longitudinal crack (sealed over), easily avoidable. The speed limit is a 50 going into a 45. I was admittedly going 55 on approach and slowed to 25 before I was able to change lanes. The other lane was occupied by other cars.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Of course you had to drive the stake in my back! I paid, had my bike in my car, alarm ready for 4:30am... woke up at 3:30 with the flu and didn't go! Was on the couch for 3 straight days! I've never been so bummed.

Oh yeah, forgot about that last thread..... that sucks. Saw a lot of the GF folks out there as we were climbing GMR they were descending, didn't realize that course went up Baldy Road twice, that is either epic or sucks :) Would have needed the SAG with the temps going up and down