South bound coming down the hill into Malibu. Bottom of hill is the intersection where the Chevron station is. The shoulder/bike lane is very wide. No cars were parked on that section.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Got it. There is as you say a very wide shoulder there

Coming down from Pepperdine (heading towards LA)? And he was in the middle of the right lane? Not the turn lane at the bottom?

Yeah, that's a new one. Haven't seen that... ever.

This is way before the turn lane.

That light at the bottom was green but the next one (the one at the intersect with the Shell station) was red. That's where I attempted to explain that I am also a cyclist, etc.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I'm sure he thought, 'he lying, he's too muscular to be a cyclist.'

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

Why don't we have this same mentality when in our cars, and we see other drivers doing stupid-ass stuff? Like I see every single day on my drive to work?

We somehow manage to understand that one single driver doesn't represent all other drivers as a class.

Why should that be any different for bikes? yes, I know that people will come up with all sorts of explanations for this. I won't argue with that --- what I'll argue is that we should change that mentality. (it's the same mentality that results in all sorts of stereotyping).

Disclosure: I am the President of Velo Club La Grange, one of the largest (if not the largest) cycling clubs and racing teams in Southern California. We are sponsored by Helen's Cycles, and I count the owner and many, many of the folks that work there as friends. The rider you describe is on another (much smaller) team sponsored by Helen's. I know of all of their riders and several of them are good friends. And I know the rider you are referring to and discussed this with him.

Question to the OP: Are you from SoCal and do you ride "Hwy. 1 in Malibu" often? I ask this because there is not a single local rider that refers to this road as "Hwy. 1" - instead, it is universally referred to as "PCH" by local riders. BTW I am originally fron NorCal and this is one of those things that distinguishes the two regions, similar to the way those in SoCal say "the" before freeways while those in NorCal do not. E.g. "take the 101 to the 405" vs. "take 101 to 405."

I ask this not to suggest that an outsider's opinion is invalid, but instead to suggest that perhaps those that have logged thousands of miles on this road may have a certain set of experiences that result in their "taking the lane." And it is worth noting that PCH is a 4-lane road (2 lanes each direction), so as a driver you always have the ability to change lanes and move around and slower traffic occupying the right lane. Now reasonable minds can certainly differ on the proper use of PCH as a bicyclist, but here goes:

As I said, I talked to the rider. There are two sides to every story after all. I have known him for several years and he is a no-nonsense guy. And here is his account.

The incident happened coming down "Pepperdine Hill" (eastbound/northbound PCH) this morning. The rider was descending what is a pretty steep hill, it hits minus 7-7.5%. You can get a lot of speed here. I know, as I have the Strava KOM for a segment that includes the descent (https://www.strava.com/segments/2576864). No, I did not create this segment nor do I particularly care who holds the "record" on Strava. I include the link so that you can see for yourself the area of PCH in question and the grade involved.

Now let's be clear about something. That stretch of PCH does NOT feature a bike lane. Yes, it has a shoulder, but is is littered with road debris. And I checked the rider's Strava data for this ride. He hit a top speed of 42.9mph coming down that hill. And his average HR was 123bpm, so he was not hammering. You do tend to pick up speed on tailwind descent, after all. I don't know about you guys, but I don't descend through a glass, rock and timber-littered road shoulder (yes, there are actually branches in the shoulder there) when descending over 40mph.

As a side note, there IS a bike lane on PCH now (recently unveiled), but it covers only a 2 mile stretch of the road and many locals have expressed the opinion that it makes riding on PCH much MORE dangerous, as it places riders in a clear door zone with respect to parked cars. See for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0-MjRJ7fPo

OK back to the incident. The rider tells me he was definitely in the lane, but more to the right side of it. Make no mistake, he acknowledges "taking the lane." For the reasons noted above. He then reports that the OP didn't simply honk after he passed, but instead laid on the horn as he passed. The rider didn't react, just let him go. The OP then got stuck in traffic at the red light at the bottom of the hill and the rider passed the stopped traffic on the right. Again, I see the Strava file and this was at 20mph - not hammering. The OP then caught up, rolled alongside the rider and began lecturing the rider about how to ride his bike. At this point, the rider tells the OP to "fuck off." The OP give the rider the finger, and then the rider gives the OP the finger.

Note that the rider hasn't constructed a story where he is a blameless angel. He admits to cursing at the driver. But this was only after the driver laid on his horn while he is coming down a very fast tailwind descent and then pulled alongside to lecture him. I would certainly counsel my rider friend to not curse at drivers in the future, but I can also 100% understand where he is coming from, having been harassed by the OP for justifiably taking the lane. I suspect it angered my friend to find out that the driver was a "fellow cyclist" than if he had simply been another clueless driver.

Moreover, the OP's post and the "yeah, what an asshole!" comments are in respect to the rider's having taken the lane in arrogance. But it was completely justified and I would hope that if the OP ever has the chance to ride that section of PCH, that he will do the same for his own safety.

To recap:

Steep descent.
No bike lane, just a shoulder littered with glass and other road debris.
Rider hits a top speed of 42.9mph on the descent - rider takes lane in process.
Driver is "inconvenienced" by having to change lanes.
Driver instigates incident with cyclist.

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Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099

NOOOOOO!!! I have to get in my car right now. I won't be able to log on to ST for about 5 hours!! I'm positive this thread will get deleted with the banter about to be unleashed.

Damn it, someone tape this for me.

Cue Michael Jackson eating popcorn.

I have no intention of getting into an Internet flame war with the OP or anyone else. But the facts are facts. When the OP describes a "bike lane" on this section of PCH, when there simply is no such thing, it calls into question the entire premise of his post. There is no bike lane there and I think most cyclists would take the lane when descending 42.9mph, when the shoulder is littered with glass and other dangerous debris and there are in fact 2 lanes so that any vehicles wishing to pass the cyclist may do so.

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Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099

Last year or the year before, I don't recall, I took a picture of a rider in full sponsor gear and posted it to the sponsors FB page. This rider was running stop signs and red lights. Couldn't get a pic of him breaking the law but simply stated what he was doing and how the company's name is plastered all over his kit. If you can read the sponsors name, contact the sponsor or Google the sponsor cycling team. They usually have a FB page.

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_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

I'm in 1000% agreement with refthimos. If you've done this ride before (solo or with a group), for your safety you take the lane (for that stretch).

I was going to post the exact same thing as I completely agree. Assholes will be assholes. Whether they are on a bike, walking on a sidewalk, driving their car, or in a grocery store.

I think the difference is though that 99.99% of people drive, walk, or go grocery shopping...so they can relate to the fact that not all drivers, walkers, and grocery shoppers are assholes. But a very small portion of the population rides their bikes on the road...so they don't get it. I think it's part of human nature to stereotype with a much broader brush when we come across things we are not familiar with. People that don't surf likely paint a very broad brush about what all surfers are like...which is likely very untrue.

I completely agree that as a society we need to change our mentality about how we stereotype all people before we start making harsh judgments on them.

In post #26 OP says bike lane/shoulder. So he acknowledges that it may not have been a dedicated "bike" lane. His premise still stands.

You may not intend on getting in a flame war but you start your post questioning whether he is a local (reason matters not) and then end your post with bullet points that do nothing but discredit the OP and basically hold your rider's arm in the air like the winner of a boxing match.

You also state "facts are facts" blah blah blah when in FACT you were not there. Only the OP and the rider in question were there. So without video recording its tough to discredit EITHER party. So I would be a little more cautious with your recapped bullet points and phrasing.

So while you may not have intended a flame war, you certainly didn't come in with a peaceful mindset either. You also didn't do yourself a favor by calling facts into question when all anyone has is he said/he said. The first post was calm and cautionary. Yours was not.

My 2 cents.

EDITED to add: I'm not passing judgement on anyone because I wasn't there. Just recognizing two very different tones from apparently opposing sides of the story. As an objective 3rd party, that was apparent. Carry on.

Why'd Duffy have to slow to 25mph if buddy was doing 40+ mph? All he had to say at the intersection was "there's all kinds of crap on the shoulder, it's not safe to ride there" instead of fingering the OP. The cyclist's behaviour was inexcusable, it makes us all look bad.

This is the gist of the problem. The fact that a road user (be it a bus, RV, garbage truck, slower car, etc.) is using the public road in a legal manner but causing inconvenience to another user. If the cyclist was keeping up with traffic, there wouldn't be an issue at all. So before everyone gets all high and mighty about the 'stupid cyclist' (on this board???) keep in mind it's the fact that he was (legally) impeding traffic that everyone is upset about. The appropriate response is 'deal with it, or choose a different route'. Or as the cyclist so eloquently put it - Fuck Off.

If you don't like it, don't fight with the cyclist. Fight to get appropriate and safe bike lanes created.

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I am born and raised in Santa Barbara ca. I referred to the road as "hwy 1" because most people who read ST wouldn't know what PCH means. I personally use "PCH" "hwy 1" and "the 1" interchangebly. I do not ride on this stretch of road because I have no reason or desire to do so.

I do drive on this stretch of road quite often (several times a month over the last decade). I have never seen a cyclist do what your friend did.

As for the incident in question, there is no way that you can convince me that the rider chose the safer option. Is the (very wide) shoulder/bike lane (for the record it doesn't say "bike lane" on the road there but it is for all intent and purpose a bike lane) bumpy? Yes it's not as smooth as the road. Maybe a cyclist should not go 42 mph on that section (he wasn't going that fast as I approached him). His bike has brakes, no?

As I have stated previously in this thread I understand taking a lane. I would, however, never ever take the lane where your friend did.

As far as "laying on the horn" I'm not really going to get into varying descriptions of how I honked. It is entirely possible the the vehicle behind me (tan truck) honked at him as well. In my rear view mirror I saw your friend gesturing at that person also so it appears there was an exchange of words/hand gestures between them as well. I don't know for sure.

I did honk my horn and I did see him in my mirror giving me the finger (in addition to some kind of gesture to the guy behind me).

You might want to let your friend know that he should not only ride in a safer and more considerate manner, he should also think twice about flipping the bird and telling people to fuck off. He really has no idea who he may be dealing with. Words and gestures like that can quickly escalate into physical contact. He endangered himself by riding the way he did and he endangered himself again with his words and gestures aimed at a man that he doesn't know anything about.

He would be wise to be more careful and considerate in the future.

Thank you for speaking here on his behalf.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I'll probably regret piping up on this...but, I'm not sure if the Google Maps view of that stretch seen on Strava helps your argument. That appears to be a REALLY wide shoulder...as Duffy said, almost another car length width! Can't see debris from the satellite photo...but, there would have to be a TON of it there for me to not ride on that shoulder.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

And that would really dumb.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

It is unquestionably very wide. But I do not think that the resolution of satellite imagery is sufficient to allow you to discern what objects might lie in that wide shoulder. And you do realize that the California Vehicle Code allows bicycles to operate within the lane and does not force them to ride on the shoulder of the road precisely because the shoulder of the road often contains glass, rocks and other debris that are not present in the road itself?

BTW I ride on the shoulder of the road whenever it is safe to do so. From thousands of miles riding with my friend, he does the same.

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Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099

Motorists are infinitely worse

I was not inconvenienced at all. My point here is that the cyclist was riding in an unsafe manner and then acted like a jerk. This type of behavior furthers the divide between cyclists an motorist and all that does is make it even more dangerous for all cyclists. I don't like the fact that a minority of cyclist make us look bad to some motorists, which in turn makes some motorists want to hurt cyclists, but that's the reality.

This isn't about inconvenience at all.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I've found that the most effective way of dealing with honks, etc. while out on rides is to follow the advice of the penguins:

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

This. I'm driving back up in a bit and I'll take photos and post.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I drive a lot for my work. I also ride bike. I'm well aware of how motorists are. It's totally irrelevant here, though.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I said that...didn't I?


Absolutely...and I "take the lane" when appropriate as well. However, I don't think it's ever in a situation as that one (i.e. extremely wide shoulder AND 2 lanes, with higher speed auto traffic).

Maybe you can post a pic of the road debris in that section from ground level?

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/