Sara, you left a Facebook post on the article posted yesterday about who likely triggered the US Atty's investigation into IM's lottery. i'm answering you here, on the forum, because i think it's a better architecture for any back-and-forth on this.
you wrote that, "I do not think its fair to draw lines between this story and TriEqual," and that "In fact, we hope to work with the WTC if they are willing to communicate with us."
i do note a tone (your tone, you personally) that is refreshing and civil. it's not my call who leads your organization but in my opinion the group has precisely the right person heading it.
let me tell you why i disagree with your statement that, "These two topics are mutually exclusive" if what you mean is that they are entirely disconnected.
my issue with TriEqual has never been its mission or its opinions. it is the behavior, language, frothing of the mob, that has grown up around the movement, and TriEqual's silence when it always could have appealed for civility among its own adherents had it so chosen. i think this bears directly on the topic, but i'm going to leave that for a moment.
the original story we wrote, announcing the news of the US Atty's move against the lottery, was the most-read story on slowtwitch in awhile. yet, in my mind, that was the end of it after it was published. i did not "out" ryan and mark. they outed themselves. i felt this was itself a story because the topic was so ardently followed by our readers and because it's interesting, to me, that triathletes themselves started this in motion rather than the justice dept figuring it out itself (yes, the feds might have independently decided to take action, but, curiously, after decades of ignoring the lottery, a letter was sent to the feds blowing the whistle on the lottery and the feds chose to contact ironman that very same month).
the US Atty, who raced and finished IMFL 8 times, who undoubtedly was not naive of the lottery program, did not even think about the illegality of it until it was brought to his attention. i don't think he was blind, stupid, or corrupt. i just think it didn't occur to him, like it didn't occur to me, and it probably didn't occur to ironman down through the years. it was overly commercial and fed on the forlorn hopes of kona aspirants, but i very much doubt that ironman conspired to get away with a criminal act - the act might have violated laws, but i don't think this was ironman's intent (and i doubt the US Atty thinks so either).
yet, look at the FB comments appending to both the articles we published on this. read those comments, and you tell me whether you think they're over the top. see if you recognize the names any of these folks who are posting.
when i followed the twitter and FB comments by ryan and mark, i don't read "it's a bittersweet day, it's the end of something that should not be continued, that's a positive thing, but it's hard to watch such an important tri-related organization be harmed." rather, the comments are gleeful. victory. we won. look what we did. congratulatory. high-fiving. and i think this flows directly from the mood TriEqual has allowed if not fostered. i think your own comment betrays a sentiment: "...if they are willing to communicate with us." this is what has driven so much of the frustration. below is what ryan wrote to me about the genesis of the letter to the feds on the lottery:
"During the course of our dialogue regarding the Ironman Foundation, KBG drafted an email to Dave Deschanes requesting comment. I then drafted an initial email with questions to send to Ellie Seifert and Andrew Messick on December 22nd. The response received was, and I quote, 'We decline to participate.' Given the frosty nature of the communication line, on or about this date, I drafted a form letter which is the one that you see in Mark's Tweet, regarding what appeared to be a violation of Florida law. I then forwarded it to Mark."
TriEqual felt dissed, and maybe it was dissed, by ironman when it sent its original letter asking for/demanding 15 extra slots for the women. since that time what i see is a posture that might be best described as, "ironman is going to rue the day it decided to ignore us." i think it's absolutely germane to the story - and would have been bad journalism to omit - the close ties that bind the organizations, inside of which the various parties written about sit. there's been a frothing up, and that frothing was generated around the TriEqual movement. TriEqual has welcomed it. used it to its advantage. made the conscious decision not to tamp it down.
this is why i disagree with your view that TriEqual and this lottery issue are disconnected. in fact, were i to try to construct an argument proving that your movement and this event were disconnected, it would be an extreme exercise in dialectic.
finally, i don't see what all the hubbub is about. i'm at once told in the FB comments that what these folks did was a heroic act (uncovering criminality) and how dare i smear them, shame them, by shining a light on what they did! i have never seen a group of people so conflicted by an act taken. someone even took me to task for placing a picture of ryan in the story. when i wrote back that i asked ryan for a picture for the story, and ryan sent it, the reader became even more irate at me!
so, yes, i do think it's fair to paint a landscape of TriEqual's supporters and leaders who have felt insulted by ironman's refusal to engage; a superheated atmosphere of incivility that TriEqual has allowed to fester; and observers can either conclude that this poisoned mood created an atmosphere that brought us to this point; or whether, as you assert, all these activities are occurring entirely independent of each other; have nothing to do with the other; and, i suppose, you think that absent the TriEqual movement mark and ryan never would have sent the letter to the justice dept.
in short, you (and i mean you, personally) are saying the right things. you are using a tone i appreciate. i think clint either lucked out our chose wisely when he corralled you (or you corralled each other). were i ironman, i would find it a pleasure to sit down with you and hash out the issues, see if there was a future where all sides felt satisfied. i just think that there's one element missing, and that is your own exhortations for civility to your own supporters. i do believe a reasonable person can draw a line between the escalating anger at ironman triggered by TriEqual, and the lottery news of day before yesterday, and to omit that connection would have been bad reporting. that's why the article was written as it was.
[LATE EDIT: to those coming to this post late, i've done some further investigation and i'm out over my skis conflating TriEqual with "lotterygate." i can't find any evidence of a nexus here, so, when i write this above to sara - "i disagree with your view that TriEqual and this lottery issue are disconnected" - there are timeline problems; and the fellow who wrote the letter alerting Justice what he felt was an illegal lottery insists the women's issues were not a factor. indeed these issues were not widely discussed in public until february, 2 months after the letter to Justice was sent. therefore, you'll see in post #141 of this thread that i can no longer support this part of what i'm writing above. further, there is or soon will be a statement to this effect i expect any reader will find on the main slowtwitch page.]
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
you wrote that, "I do not think its fair to draw lines between this story and TriEqual," and that "In fact, we hope to work with the WTC if they are willing to communicate with us."
i do note a tone (your tone, you personally) that is refreshing and civil. it's not my call who leads your organization but in my opinion the group has precisely the right person heading it.
let me tell you why i disagree with your statement that, "These two topics are mutually exclusive" if what you mean is that they are entirely disconnected.
my issue with TriEqual has never been its mission or its opinions. it is the behavior, language, frothing of the mob, that has grown up around the movement, and TriEqual's silence when it always could have appealed for civility among its own adherents had it so chosen. i think this bears directly on the topic, but i'm going to leave that for a moment.
the original story we wrote, announcing the news of the US Atty's move against the lottery, was the most-read story on slowtwitch in awhile. yet, in my mind, that was the end of it after it was published. i did not "out" ryan and mark. they outed themselves. i felt this was itself a story because the topic was so ardently followed by our readers and because it's interesting, to me, that triathletes themselves started this in motion rather than the justice dept figuring it out itself (yes, the feds might have independently decided to take action, but, curiously, after decades of ignoring the lottery, a letter was sent to the feds blowing the whistle on the lottery and the feds chose to contact ironman that very same month).
the US Atty, who raced and finished IMFL 8 times, who undoubtedly was not naive of the lottery program, did not even think about the illegality of it until it was brought to his attention. i don't think he was blind, stupid, or corrupt. i just think it didn't occur to him, like it didn't occur to me, and it probably didn't occur to ironman down through the years. it was overly commercial and fed on the forlorn hopes of kona aspirants, but i very much doubt that ironman conspired to get away with a criminal act - the act might have violated laws, but i don't think this was ironman's intent (and i doubt the US Atty thinks so either).
yet, look at the FB comments appending to both the articles we published on this. read those comments, and you tell me whether you think they're over the top. see if you recognize the names any of these folks who are posting.
when i followed the twitter and FB comments by ryan and mark, i don't read "it's a bittersweet day, it's the end of something that should not be continued, that's a positive thing, but it's hard to watch such an important tri-related organization be harmed." rather, the comments are gleeful. victory. we won. look what we did. congratulatory. high-fiving. and i think this flows directly from the mood TriEqual has allowed if not fostered. i think your own comment betrays a sentiment: "...if they are willing to communicate with us." this is what has driven so much of the frustration. below is what ryan wrote to me about the genesis of the letter to the feds on the lottery:
"During the course of our dialogue regarding the Ironman Foundation, KBG drafted an email to Dave Deschanes requesting comment. I then drafted an initial email with questions to send to Ellie Seifert and Andrew Messick on December 22nd. The response received was, and I quote, 'We decline to participate.' Given the frosty nature of the communication line, on or about this date, I drafted a form letter which is the one that you see in Mark's Tweet, regarding what appeared to be a violation of Florida law. I then forwarded it to Mark."
TriEqual felt dissed, and maybe it was dissed, by ironman when it sent its original letter asking for/demanding 15 extra slots for the women. since that time what i see is a posture that might be best described as, "ironman is going to rue the day it decided to ignore us." i think it's absolutely germane to the story - and would have been bad journalism to omit - the close ties that bind the organizations, inside of which the various parties written about sit. there's been a frothing up, and that frothing was generated around the TriEqual movement. TriEqual has welcomed it. used it to its advantage. made the conscious decision not to tamp it down.
this is why i disagree with your view that TriEqual and this lottery issue are disconnected. in fact, were i to try to construct an argument proving that your movement and this event were disconnected, it would be an extreme exercise in dialectic.
finally, i don't see what all the hubbub is about. i'm at once told in the FB comments that what these folks did was a heroic act (uncovering criminality) and how dare i smear them, shame them, by shining a light on what they did! i have never seen a group of people so conflicted by an act taken. someone even took me to task for placing a picture of ryan in the story. when i wrote back that i asked ryan for a picture for the story, and ryan sent it, the reader became even more irate at me!
so, yes, i do think it's fair to paint a landscape of TriEqual's supporters and leaders who have felt insulted by ironman's refusal to engage; a superheated atmosphere of incivility that TriEqual has allowed to fester; and observers can either conclude that this poisoned mood created an atmosphere that brought us to this point; or whether, as you assert, all these activities are occurring entirely independent of each other; have nothing to do with the other; and, i suppose, you think that absent the TriEqual movement mark and ryan never would have sent the letter to the justice dept.
in short, you (and i mean you, personally) are saying the right things. you are using a tone i appreciate. i think clint either lucked out our chose wisely when he corralled you (or you corralled each other). were i ironman, i would find it a pleasure to sit down with you and hash out the issues, see if there was a future where all sides felt satisfied. i just think that there's one element missing, and that is your own exhortations for civility to your own supporters. i do believe a reasonable person can draw a line between the escalating anger at ironman triggered by TriEqual, and the lottery news of day before yesterday, and to omit that connection would have been bad reporting. that's why the article was written as it was.
[LATE EDIT: to those coming to this post late, i've done some further investigation and i'm out over my skis conflating TriEqual with "lotterygate." i can't find any evidence of a nexus here, so, when i write this above to sara - "i disagree with your view that TriEqual and this lottery issue are disconnected" - there are timeline problems; and the fellow who wrote the letter alerting Justice what he felt was an illegal lottery insists the women's issues were not a factor. indeed these issues were not widely discussed in public until february, 2 months after the letter to Justice was sent. therefore, you'll see in post #141 of this thread that i can no longer support this part of what i'm writing above. further, there is or soon will be a statement to this effect i expect any reader will find on the main slowtwitch page.]
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
